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_Montagne

Struggling with Daring?

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I was expecting to do well once I got Daring since I've got 70+ winrate In Jutland but apparently not. About 30 games in Daring and I'm constantly losing battles.

 

Here's a few replays I picked out at random

20181025_160932_PBSD110-Daring_18_NE_ice_islands.wowsreplay

20181025_103518_PBSD110-Daring_15_NE_north.wowsreplay

20181025_090744_PBSD110-Daring_16_OC_bees_to_honey.wowsreplay

20181024_115950_PBSD110-Daring_44_Path_warrior.wowsreplay

20181024_083349_PBSD110-Daring_37_Ridge.wowsreplay

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Your 70% win rate in the Jutland isn't really relevant because of the minuscule sample size (22 games).

 

You also only have 39 matches in the Daring and you have a positive win rate and decent damage in it. Maybe give it a bit more time?

What do you feel you are struggling with? 

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14 hours ago, _Montagne said:

Screenshot (304).png

Screenshot (305).png

Little of topic but...

 

Why use special captain on daring, if not using enhanced perks ?

 

 

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8 hours ago, _Teob_ said:

Your 70% win rate in the Jutland isn't really relevant because of the minuscule sample size (22 games).

 

You also only have 39 matches in the Daring and you have a positive win rate and decent damage in it. Maybe give it a bit more time?

What do you feel you are struggling with? 

I know it sounds like im boasting a lot about win rate but im trying to play daring like Z52 and Gearing. I have a 70% ish win rate in Z52 with over 100 games.

In Z52 I go around and contest caps and that's pretty much all I do until I get the cap (Unless there's radar) I wont care much about dealing damage just getting the caps. And yes Z52 - 5.9km hydro and Daring is only 3km

When ever I play daring I go in to contest caps and I watch out for radar, if there is radar then ill have to leave the cap and doing so I eat every penetration so I don't have much health. Luckily Daring has a heal but its a small but kinda effective heal. And I don't know if its just me but all of a sudden I'm just getting focused whenever I'm spotted and ive barely been focused this much in any other dd.

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1 hour ago, _Montagne said:

I know it sounds like im boasting a lot about win rate but im trying to play daring like Z52 and Gearing. I have a 70% ish win rate in Z52 with over 100 games.

In Z52 I go around and contest caps and that's pretty much all I do until I get the cap (Unless there's radar) I wont care much about dealing damage just getting the caps. And yes Z52 - 5.9km hydro and Daring is only 3km

When ever I play daring I go in to contest caps and I watch out for radar, if there is radar then ill have to leave the cap and doing so I eat every penetration so I don't have much health. Luckily Daring has a heal but its a small but kinda effective heal. And I don't know if its just me but all of a sudden I'm just getting focused whenever I'm spotted and ive barely been focused this much in any other dd.

 

Not questioning your ability but rather your comparisons here. I don't think you can compare the Daring with either the Jutland (which I haven't played but stat wise has much lower DPM and better stealth) or the Z52. They play very very differently.

 

Nothing compares to the Z52 when it comes to bullying people out of a cap. It has a decent smoke, very long range and long duration hydro. It is much better at applying pressure to take a point.

 

I know I am stating the obvious here because you are obviously a capable player so I am not being condescending but I find sometimes it helps to hear it from someone else.

 

Now, the way I play the Daring is I contest a cap, but then if I get contested and I don't spot the enemy DD easily, I don't fixate on the cap itself anymore. I will go around and apply loads of pressure on the BBs and Cruisers until whatever is in the cap doesn't have backup anymore. You don't even need to do too much. Set a couple of fires on a top tier BB and once he turns, all his little minions will run away with him.

By that time, the enemy DD will have capped but is now alone. And most players, even unicums, often fail to recognize this as a potentially dangerous situation. This is when you cap and/or go for the kill on the enemy DD.

The Daring is unmatched in a 1v1 situation vs other DDs. Only the Grozovoi has a good chance of winning a straight up slugging match (not including the Khaba here). So I try to do everything I can to separate enemy DDs from the herd and kill them. Once the DDs are dead or scared off, it's a simple scenario of pew pew / torp / pew pew until nothing but you is left afloat.

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Hard to tell, but first gut feelings are I don't like it. I got the Daring and only played a measly 3 games in it, but each of the 3 games had a tier 10 cv on each side and it's here I find the Daring hard to play. We know in randoms teams mostly don't provide cohesive gameplay.

 

The smoke on the Daring (a curse of all brit dd's) is very short duration, making capping in a smoke screen impossible and the cv just spots you or waits for you. You stand no chance. A dd's strength is it's stealth, and without an adequate smoke screen your dd may as well sail with the pack doing absolutely nothing until late game when the enemy cv has perhaps died. The smoke is fine for ship play, but in higher tiers against cv's it takes the rock paper scissors effect and screws it right up. 3 games, 3 cv battles, not the same cv players either.

 

I'm going to follow the route many others are, when I see a cv in the queue I'm clicking out of it if playing my Daring or higher tier brit dd's.

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15 hours ago, Shaka_D said:

Hard to tell, but first gut feelings are I don't like it. I got the Daring and only played a measly 3 games in it, but each of the 3 games had a tier 10 cv on each side and it's here I find the Daring hard to play. We know in randoms teams mostly don't provide cohesive gameplay.

 

The smoke on the Daring (a curse of all brit dd's) is very short duration, making capping in a smoke screen impossible and the cv just spots you or waits for you. You stand no chance. A dd's strength is it's stealth, and without an adequate smoke screen your dd may as well sail with the pack doing absolutely nothing until late game when the enemy cv has perhaps died. The smoke is fine for ship play, but in higher tiers against cv's it takes the rock paper scissors effect and screws it right up. 3 games, 3 cv battles, not the same cv players either.

 

I'm going to follow the route many others are, when I see a cv in the queue I'm clicking out of it if playing my Daring or higher tier brit dd's.

 

I feel you. CVs make it much more difficult to enjoy the Daring. I had my only 0 damage game when a CV decided to focus the hell out of me on trap.

But to be fair, I think that's the case with most DDs.  Not like Shima or even the otherwise mighty YY are really playable against a CV.

Only the Grozovoi is fine with CVs most of the time and I guess the Gearing but to a much lesser extent. Basically you need DefAA in order to have any chance against a good CV.

 

Having said that, the Daring is better than most other DDs at dealing with torpedo bombers due to the acceleration. You can troll CVs pretty hard occasionally. But obviously, like you mentioned the short duration smoke means that you can't really hide and wait for help.

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2 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

Not a Daring yet, but supposedly IFHE isn't fantastic for Daring...

 

Hm? Says who? :fish_glass:

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1 minute ago, _Teob_ said:

 

Hm? Says who? :fish_glass:

Flamu himself thinks AP is way to go in RN dds. I'm running IFHE but I'm only up to Lightning so far. I'll have to try Daring out for myself before suggesting anything.

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2 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Flamu himself thinks AP is way to go in RN dds. I'm running IFHE but I'm only up to Lightning so far. I'll have to try Daring out for myself before suggesting anything.

 

Right, well for what it's worth, I absolutely disagree with Flamu. Also, I would suggest you check out someone called "Your_ACT_Score" on reddit or "DoIphin_Princess" on the NA server has to say about them here  - they also consider IFHE mandatory.

(Their other guides are also very good even though I am not 100% sure everything they say is 100% applicable on the EU server.)

 

Also, the only two RN DDs that actually benefit from IFHE are the Jutland and Daring due to their gun caliber (113 mm).

 

I have tried not running IFHE and you lose too much. You lose both damage reliability as well as the synergy of fires/flooding. Like I've said before I for one consider IFHE mandatory on the Jutland and the Daring.

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Personally I'd agree with Flamu, not sure IFHE is needed, AP has worked well on the Jutland for me and I feel losing superintendent is a big miss when the ship has so many consumables. 

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2 hours ago, tajj7 said:

Personally I'd agree with Flamu, not sure IFHE is needed, AP has worked well on the Jutland for me and I feel losing superintendent is a big miss when the ship has so many consumables. 

 

How many matches do you have in the Jutland? Also what is your average damage in these matches. Asking because I am curious what you mean when you say it "worked well" for you.

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While improved AP angles could work, mostly on players who don't know how to deal with it, there are situation where Daring & Jutland will struggle unless having IFHE. If somebody is showing bow/stern, AP won't do much damage and HE can only set fire as it can't pen almost anything. Any part of ship with 19mm thickness is immune to Daring HE. Sooner or later a lot of players will learn how to negate Daring/Jutland which is not using IFHE.

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If you are eating too much damage when retreating, it's up to ship size. I don't know how those two compare, but I have a similar experience with Udaloi vs Grozovoi ... evading enemy fire in the Udaloi is much easier then in the Grozovoi ... I eat less damage ...

 

Unfortunatelly wowsft does not have these figures, so I cannot really compare .... from the existing data, there does not seem to be a size difference ....

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Im also struggling in daring , but had good first games. Its maybe because i got triggered in it thanks to the worse teams had so far 

 

I have a 38% wr in that darn thing
 

FML

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1 hour ago, Ysterpyp said:

Im also struggling in daring , but had good first games. Its maybe because i got triggered in it thanks to the worse teams had so far 

 

I have a 38% wr in that darn thing
 

FML

 

What build are you running?

I hope you don't mind but I had a look at your stats in the boat and it does seem like you haven't "clicked" with it yet. Your damage seems on the low side. Having said that, I would suggest you give it more time. You have very few games in it and it has a weird play style.

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1 hour ago, _Teob_ said:

 

What build are you running?

I hope you don't mind but I had a look at your stats in the boat and it does seem like you haven't "clicked" with it yet. Your damage seems on the low side. Having said that, I would suggest you give it more time. You have very few games in it and it has a weird play style.

Ty for taking your time to look into it ;)

 

This is the current build 

 

Captain Build

 

Its not a 19pnt commander as i kept my high pnt cpt on the Lightning and grinded a new one from Jutland

 

Had a good start in the ship and so on , had a few bad luck games in it to after getting loss after loss , which makes you play bad aswell 

 

For example :

3 shells hits on me while in smoke, was not spotted before i smoked up and Henry IV shot where my shells came from , where i detonated from almost full hp , and had some really bad teams.

 

Most of my damage are on dd's tho as i played it as a dd hunter

 

Also i noticed people have gotten really a lot better in dealing with Destroyers in high tiers and i have been away from meta here in dd for awhile

 

I have a decent average frag on it tho .. 1.24  (Which suggest that im having bad luck streak)

 

It might also be the 6.0km concealment which is a let down from previous ships of the line

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@Ysterpyp

Your spec is what I consider to be optimal so it's not that. I do question the whole DD hunting ethos though. I for one don't consider the Daring to be a great DD hunter.

It's a great DD killer, no question there, but hunter implies chasing things down. The Daring is simply too slow for that imo. And because the build doesn't really accommodate RL, it's quite awkward to know where enemy DDs are to begin with.

If an enemy DD lets you do damage to it, sure you will kill it but otherwise, I find I can spend my time better.

 

I focus a lot on taking out enemy BBs and cruisers at the start. If you get into a flanking position, your AP DPM is scary to cruisers and your HE and fires will make any BB think twice.

 

Like I said, if an enemy DD actually wants to rumble, I am all for it, but I don't go chasing them around the map.

 

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2 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

If you get into a flanking position, your AP DPM is scary to cruisers and your HE and fires will make any BB think twice.

 

 

1 Question

 

Torp Mod or Gun reload mod?

 

I will change up my tactics to in the start , and focus a little less on caps (only go in when i have to contest) , As of now i have exclusively gone to caps to contest when i know radar cruisers are out of range, because i get murder there with the slow speed and get outspotted by a few dd's.

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Daring is a different style of DD. Make use of the special smoke and force enemy dds in fighting you when you have the advantage, be the annoying dd that always comes back and disengage. Changing to the right ammo type is also important to get the max out, AP is great for broadsides, He is great to get fires. Beware that you cant easily disengage out of a bad situation.  This ship definitly needs some getting used to its different playstyle form the other dds.

 

And yes IFHE is mandatory. You need the HE pen so enemy DDs dont getway with 1k HP. Dont forget you are slow and if the enemy angles you wont get any damage with your AP. Ofcourse Flamu thinks IFHE is not needed, but thats just due to the fact he never played the nerfed version of it. The old concealment was so good that you could easily suprise other dds. This is not possible anymore with the new concealment. 

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Necroing this topic.

I need advices from experts now that RN dd line is out since a few time.

Maybe it doesn't fit my style but i've all t10 DD of other nations and i can say RN line is really disappointing.

T9 feels like a downgrade from lightining.

U trade 120mm guns for laughable 113mm, this means u can't pen DD plating or BB superstructure with HE.

Investing 4 points in IFHE sounds like a [edited] when u can't still pen 25mm meanwhile haragumo pen 32mm.

After really few games that's my though:

 

++ amazing rate of fire

++ amazing concealment

+ good rudder

+ healing is situational, handy if u can duel  1vs1 DD. Not so usefull if enemy team focus u while duealing.

= gun ballistic is like american, force u to play mid/close

= average torps

= 3km hydro it's not good as u might think

- - smoke it's almost a wasted consumable, might even wish to trade for speed boost

- - - gun caliber it's a joke

 

Conclusion is u probably need to spend 4 points on IFHE but it's really subpar to IFHE haragumo.

Survability and gun ballistic isn't comparable to german or soviet.

U are basicly a DD hunter but since u need IFHE u hardly can take RPF without giving up something usefull like SE, DE, AR

If u go knife fighting the rudder is good enough to dodge torps but the hydro range is worse than german and it's almost a coinflip against high tier DD since they have torpedo walls.

So far i had only good time @ punishing with AP potato DD or cruiser broadsiding, but u can hardly kill a cruiser before he reach hydro range.

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On 11/6/2018 at 11:20 PM, Shaka_D said:

The smoke on the Daring (a curse of all brit dd's) is very short duration, making capping in a smoke screen impossible and the cv just spots you or waits for you.

Said the same myself in another thread.

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