Do German BBs need IFHE for secondary builds?

[Blixies]

Well, do they?
I'm specifically talking about Tirpitz and GK.

I know Germans have the 1/4 HE pen exception, but I think there's some exception to this exception?

With the upcoming CE nerf, I'm rethinking speccing some BBs to the secondary builds.
Also it would be nice to play some BBs without the cookie cutter CE, FP build again.

So would the ideal build be like (version 1):

Spoiler

or version 2:

Spoiler

Or some other version?
Feel free to print screen your favoured build from here:
http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc

[Yedwy]

I dont use them, i take PM, AR, SI, AFT, MCFSA, FP and DCCA with secondary range module and sec reload module on furst, works ok for me

[Acetessigester]

I am using version 1, but only for fun.

Secondary build is not a good choice in pvp anyway.

[Blixies]

But does the IFHE actually benefit the 105s, 128s and 150s?

[ColonelPete]

Benefit - yes

Need - no

[Blixies]

2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Benefit - yes

Need - no

Well, let me rephrase the question, do you need IFHE to get through 32 mm of armour?

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Blixies said:

Well, let me rephrase the question, do you need IFHE to get through 32 mm of armour?

You could do the math....

 

Yes and no, depending on gun.

[Blixies]

I can't do the math as I'm unsure (as stated) if the 1/4 pen exception applies to every caliber german guns...

[MrWastee]

...i'll just hop in to state that afaik only gneis and GK benefit from ifhe on their secs. on gneis i can tell u it's not worth it....

...for GK i just leave this from early this year (i do run mine on full sec-pwn build, no SI, CE or FP...):

 

 

edit:

same build, my ranked stats season t10. mostly bracket 10-5... can't be too bad

Großer Kurfürst

X

102

54.9% Very Good

1 256 Average

88 467

0.75

0.56

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, Blixies said:

I can't do the math as I'm unsure (as stated) if the 1/4 pen exception applies to every caliber german guns...

Wiki:

Quote

Multiply by a factor:

• 1/4 for British battleships, German battleships (including 150 and 128 mm secondaries)

 

[jss78]

On my captain I use on secondary-specced Bismarck and Scharnhorst, I don't use IFHE. I take Concealment Expert instead. The secondaries still feel quite effective.

 

I haven't done the math, but I'd assume the Currywurst "needs" IFHE more due to the higher tier targets.

[MrWastee]

i tried ifhe out on bismarck full sec build on quite some testruns. absolutely wasted indeed. only ship it worked on for me been the GK.

[Blixies]

3 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

only ship it worked on for me been the GK.

Why is that I wonder? The GK already surpases the 32 mm treshhold. 
You get 41 mm instead of 32 mm for the 128s and 48 mm instead of 37 mm for the 150s.

[quickr]

There are better ways of spending 4 cpt points on KM BBs than IFHE

[MrWastee]

tbh, i have no idea ... maybe coz of angle of impact? i'm not the numbers guy really, i try things out and feel it/estimate. i'm a flow guy so to say lol, always tweaking to get into the tunnel ^^ ....

 

in that posted match like 40k i can recall been on a bow on missi (u dont bow on to ifhe secs in a bb...). would he've been broad he would've taken way less dmg, due to secs aiming for the cita. bow on it goes into superstrucrure, broad into the belt and harms less that way.

[Blixies]

6 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

tbh, i have no idea ... maybe coz of angle of impact? i'm not the numbers guy really, i try things out and feel it/estimate. i'm a flow guy so to say lol, always tweaking to get into the tunnel ^^ ....

 

in that posted match like 40k i can recall been on a bow on missi (u dont bow on to ifhe secs in a bb...). would he've been broad he would've taken way less dmg, due to secs aiming for the cita. bow on it goes into superstrucrure, broad into the belt and harms less that way.

Impact angle does not matter when any HE shell hits. That's not to say I don't respect your flow :D

[MrWastee]

3 minutes ago, Blixies said:

Impact angle does not matter when any HE shell hits. That's not to say I don't respect your flow :D

 

ofc it does not ... thx, gotta luv those brainfart moments

[WashedandDeceased]

Just to clear something up 

If the pen is 32mm and the armor is 32mm the armor withstands the hit, i.e no damage 

It has to be over 32mm to actually penetrate

[Blixies]

3 minutes ago, Freyr_90 said:

Just to clear something up 

If the pen is 32mm and the armor is 32mm the armor withstands the hit, i.e no damage 

It has to be over 32mm to actually penetrate

Really? So the german 128s don't actually penetrate the 32 mm armor? It would explain why  MrWastee was doing better with the IFHE.

[principat121]

5 minutes ago, Freyr_90 said:

If the pen is 32mm and the armor is 32mm the armor withstands the hit, i.e no damage 

It has to be over 32mm to actually penetrate

And that is why the GK benefits from IFHE for the 128mm secondaries.

 

IIRC:

And the 1/4 pen is only applied to gun also used as main battery somewhere else. The Bismarck's 105mm will only have 1/6 penetration. The GK 128mm secondaries on the other hand will benefit from IFHE. That is why you can use IHFE on the GK with a benefit, but not on the Bismarck.

[Vlad_Vado]

One question related to the topic. Are the 150mm also affected by IFHE or have the same 139mm limit as for main battery guns?

[principat121]

Just now, Vlad_Vado said:

One question related to the topic. Are the 150mm also affected by IFHE or have the same 139mm limit as for main battery guns?

The 139mm limit is only applied to MAIN battery guns and not to secondaries.

[ColonelPete]

IFHE has no limit.

[Blixies]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

IFHE has no limit.

He was talking about limmiting the fire starting chance.

[principat121]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

IFHE has no limit.

 

You mean "No Limit"?

 

Spoiler

 

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;-)