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BarthalomewKuma

RPF at it's best

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So here we go ... a rant ... don't think so.

 

Because I have valid proposal to fix of problem, where at least in my POV it is problem.

 

So not first not last game game goes super dumb because there is some [edited]dd on enemy team that does literally just one thing. Follows RPF torps where rpf is , repeat. Mostly it fails, given of course i'm not dumb and I do predict that if dude keeps his rpf on me for last 10 minutes he must be insanely naive to think I'm not aware of his "skillful" gameplay. However ... problem occurs because such fellas love to drive some super low concealment boats as kagero or such - so they also not only spot you using rpf without being spotted themselves , but what is also huge irony of skill itself - they use skill to avoid any contact or possibility for being spotted.

 

This is indeed sad - because skill itself came to game as counter to such cool dudes in kagero etc. What it ends up in the end is not tool for chasing down dds, but complete opposite.

 

I complain as it really ruins my( and any other dd aswell) dd vs dd gameplay. I remember my shima vs enemy shima games where we just rpf each other half of game and blind torp *edited* disugsting.

 

It really dumbs down any engagement - because even if they are HUGE IDIOTS - I mean seriously even if they are totally crap at this game - they have huge marker preventing any ENGAGEMENT with opposite team dd. So they can back off and just stay in concealment forever.

 

For skill itself to be what it should have always been I propose change that skill is locked down not only for CVs , but also for DDs. 

 

Free intel tool shouldn't be given to ships that are already best at running away, staying in concealment. Just like CE shouldn't be available to BBs.

 

Really in this game one of best parts is ambushing someone or having some unexpected encounter. With RPF it's all but impossible.

 

"Get RPF yourself, l2p" ... I won't take bait - I have very decent results in this game and I run RPF myself on fletcher/gearing/shima. I would swap to something else but yeah ... it's broken OP. Fact is i have unlocked every t10 dd except khaba and daring (at least for now) - so I know dd gameplay pretty well.

 

And if you are still not sold - ask yourself does 5.4 concelament ship with smoke , speed boost and good agility needs even more tools to prevent spotting by enemy dd ? DOES IT ? ARE YOU SURE ?

 

Where is risk/reward part of playing dd using your speed and concealment to spot for your team ? I ask where it is ? If now you can from 100km tell where enemy is and just torp in that direction. Skill brings nothing healthy to dd gameplay.

 

PS Please don't explain me how to use RPF or link any videos how it's good. It would be good if it was used for it's purpose not completely opposite.

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21 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

RPF does not show distance.

Just move towards him after you evade torps.

IRL I'm good at predicting other people too - life is not a game, but there is one thing in common in both situations for good prediction you have to put yourself in your opponent shoes. 

 

Your tip is irrelevant since he can keep moving sideways to you and torp, so he won't be in position from where torps came. That is one thing. 

 

2nd false it does show distance ... you see that is a bit tricky , but it does actually show distance. Let me explain : For example you see 10km away from yourself hipper and your RPF shows you something to left of hipper and there is not island just open water. Your concealment is again for example 6km. You pretty sure know something is not only there but at distance 9.9km to 6.1km. THAT is HELLA LOT OF INTEL. But then again only if you can read between lines. And someone who uses brain can use other ships as markers for measuring distance between you and enemy "unspotted rpfed target".

You know how I know this ? Well I do it myself.

 

And even if someone is not capable enough to figure out above mechanic - he can still just run away from marker regardless of distance and keep torping this direction - said Kagero doesn't want to be spotted or engaged in any gunfight in first place.

 

A tool is as powerful as the user. 

 

But then again it's too potent in competent hands (thank god its very rare case as we know playerbase in WoWs is insanely bad). But in such cases it's super frustrating - because you have no counterplay.

 

RPF is okay on cruisers - okay it was not for Worcester but it got fixed somehow with 9km radar - because you can see those ships more easily than dds so it's not that oppresive. And its way harder for cruiser to stay undetected and/or disengage like dd can.

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Well take rpf urself go after him with a speedy gunboat and muder him

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So basically OP is whining that someone is using RPF as they should? Even thou I am using RPF, I would lie saying that I was not ever ambushed by enemy.
Other thing is that this Kagero have done nothing whole game as he would not hit any targets. This method, of hide and RPF torp works only on DD's that are chased by CA and they try to stay out of radar range, otherwise they can hit nothing, or they do not need RPF. Makes me wonder in what DD OP was chasing him, and why, there was nothing better to do? I have chased lonely DD's when there was nothing better to do.

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All this is telling me is that was playing DD to it's strengths, like a skilled player...

 

You didn't mention what ship you were playing, so it's difficult to say what strengths/counter you should of used to kill him.

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here come the butthurt dd players comments about radar bla bla bla even though they can essentially see someone without being spotted the entire game without having to do anything to work for it.

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Alle 22/10/2018 alle 08:37, Sir_Grzegorz ha scritto:

So basically OP is whining that someone is using RPF as they should? Even thou I am using RPF, I would lie saying that I was not ever ambushed by enemy.
Other thing is that this Kagero have done nothing whole game as he would not hit any targets. This method, of hide and RPF torp works only on DD's that are chased by CA and they try to stay out of radar range, otherwise they can hit nothing, or they do not need RPF. Makes me wonder in what DD OP was chasing him, and why, there was nothing better to do? I have chased lonely DD's when there was nothing better to do.

"So basically OP is whining that someone is using RPF as they should?" -  yeah keep telling it yourself. RPF is in game to counter stalking dds not the other way. Where you have been when it was clearly stated ? So if skill doesn't do what it was designed for - it's flawed. At least try harder when trolling.

 

Alle 22/10/2018 alle 08:47, CraftyVeteran ha scritto:

here come the butthurt dd players comments about radar bla bla bla even though they can essentially see someone without being spotted the entire game without having to do anything to work for it.

Noone said anything about radar in this topic ... wtf you are taking - stuff is too strong and you are too high please take it off. And what you say is completely opposite to what I just said in this topic. Please get out .

 

Alle 22/10/2018 alle 09:12, Hedgehog1963 ha scritto:

 

My logic is sound.  I'm unable to perceive logic in your argument.

Because you only perceive only what you want to. Stop doing so and you can see more. In before it doesn't apply to myself. See I use RPF aswell , if necessary i can give screenshoots of my captain builds at T10 dds , but what is the point ... point is that i know problem from 2 sides. You only see from one. So you are unable to avoid subjective statements. As your proved. 

 

Btw my example is pretty damn good. Sure it's absurd skill, but we got crapton of skills in WoWs and some are substantially stronger than others at same tier ? At t1 ... what cruiser doesn't pick skill allowing to see if anyone targets you and how many people for example ? It's absurdally stronger than others in that case. So my example is pretty good.

 

If we follow your agenda we can add any skill including dropping thermo nuclear loads on enemy ships - as cool as it sounds, sure it won't make balance better can we agree ?

Same goes for RPF - game was fine without RPF, game would be fine without RPF again. Since it breaks more than it fixes given it only makes problem it was bound to fix even bigger ...

 

Alle 22/10/2018 alle 09:16, Hugh_Ruka ha scritto:

So you fail to hunt down the slowest DD in the game even with RPF on your captain ? I wonder where the problem might be ...

It's not where you think it is. 

 

First of all it's not slowest, there is plenty of ships with similar/smaller speed than kagero.

Second of all you can't always follow it (he turns back towards his radar cruiser spotting area ...) and/ or he is behind cover and would be able to torp you from that spot at point blank range etc. Tons of examples you can't comprehend, but can't blame someone with 2k games for now knowing his crap.

 

And last but not least who said i have RPF on my every captain ? You got it wrong. Sure reading topic then answering is your big problem. You have answer before you even read stuff. Pretty impressive I admit.

 

Alle 22/10/2018 alle 09:15, Sir_Grzegorz ha scritto:

Have I missed OP's solution on how to balance this skill?
As with any other skill/ship if something is OP for long enough it gets nerfed/removed.

There was no discussions from WG about this skill that means it is not as usefull as you think.

On other hand in your 6k games how many times there was an Kagero that YOU and ONLY you had to kill?

"Have I missed OP's solution on how to balance this skill?" indeed. It was bolded out area with explanation aswell why it should happen, not just stating it. Damn bolding out doesn't help either. God please...

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I dont use the skill on all of my DDs.

But it is a DD skill .... dont have it on single CL let alone any BB.

 

Is it strong? Yes. Does it need nerfing? Maybe. 

 

I was strongly against this skill to be implemented in the first place .... and If I have to be honest I still am.

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6 minutes ago, Kenliero said:

All this is telling me is that was playing DD to it's strengths, like a skilled player...

 

You didn't mention what ship you were playing, so it's difficult to say what strengths/counter you should of used to kill him.

See that is one of core problems - "to it's strenghts" - by following this logic we can also justify BBs outspotting cruisers - but it's all good as long as they "play to thier strenghts".

 

That is essentially what i'm trying to point out "strenghts" that should never be there in first place.

 

Recently I had game where i gunned down zao in open water in kitakaze when he was hunting me with rpf. This shouldnt also be happening. Yet it happend ... I just played to strenghts of my ship you could say ... Yeah I did. Though gotta admit zao aim ... I have seen better snipers ...

 

I'm starting to see that some people on those forums are even justifying worcester for being balanced and "playing to its strenghts" where its strenght is basically everything and no weakness and countering everything in this game. 

 

BUT EVERYTHING IS RIGHT BECAUSE THEY JUST PLAY TO SHIP STRENGHTS. YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

 

Mod please lock down this thread. Noone to speak with. Logic doesn't apply here. I was dumb to even start discussion with "playing to it's strenghts" community. Because obviously some strenghts cannot be unbalanced or flawed and WG never made any mistake. Oh wait ...

And i must be bad player, lets stats shame this guy ... oh wait again.

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It is RDF not RPF, as you only get a bearing.  By now I have this on all my DDs when I get the commander skills up.  Essential in my opinion.  I've had a couple of RDF only kills in Ranked this weekend using Gremyashchy, which is of course a DD that hunts others.  I never saw the DDs I sank until I'd sunk them.  Sat stationary in a smoke cloud?  Die because I can tell where you are.  On my old-style Japanese DDs it is used to evade enemy DDs. They are not what I'm trying to sink.

 

OPs suggestion fails because anyone can get it.  It's not restricted to certain players.  It just reinforces my belief that free commander XP and free XP are the most valuable resources in this game.

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I have been against RPF from the get go. I think it's a retarded skill.

Or for that matter, give option for radio silence.

But all in all, there aren't that many who uses it anymore (not when I play though) for it to be a big issue.

I thought it would be a massive RPF *edited* when the skill came....I was wrong.

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2 minutes ago, Hedgehog1963 said:

It is RDF not RPF, as you only get a bearing.  By now I have this on all my DDs when I get the commander skills up.  Essential in my opinion.  I've had a couple of RDF only kills in Ranked this weekend using Gremyashchy, which is of course a DD that hunts others.  I never saw the DDs I sank until I'd sunk them.  Sat stationary in a smoke cloud?  Die because I can tell where you are.  On my old-style Japanese DDs it is used to evade enemy DDs. They are not what I'm trying to sink.

 

OPs suggestion fails because anyone can get it.  It's not restricted to certain players.  It just reinforces my belief that free commander XP and free XP are the most valuable resources in this game.

Lets say there was skill that let you once instantly sink ship once you see it - once per game. By using your logic beause anyone can take it - it must be balanced. "just pick it yourself". Starting to see flaws in your own logic , before trying to point them out in mine ?

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1 hour ago, BarthalomewKuma said:

 

2nd false it does show distance ... you see that is a bit tricky , but it does actually show distance. Let me explain : For example you see 10km away from yourself hipper and your RPF shows you something to left of hipper and there is not island just open water. Your concealment is again for example 6km. You pretty sure know something is not only there but at distance 9.9km to 6.1km. THAT is HELLA LOT OF INTEL. But then again only if you can read between lines. And someone who uses brain can use other ships as markers for measuring distance between you and enemy "unspotted rpfed target".

You know how I know this ? Well I do it myself.

It does not tell you if the DD is going in your direction and hunting you.

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3 minutes ago, BarthalomewKuma said:

Lets say there was skill that let you once instantly sink ship once you see it - once per game. By using your logic beause anyone can take it - it must be balanced. "just pick it yourself". Starting to see flaws in your own logic , before trying to point them out in mine ?

 

My logic is sound.  I'm unable to perceive logic in your argument.

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@BartholomewKuma Well tbh your comparison sucks cose even knowig exactly where a ship is without it beeing detected doesnt guarantee a hit let alone a kill (just think of all thise smoked up dakka cruisers and dds), and rdf only gives you a direction of the closest enemy ship, sooo instagib skill? wtf?

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The power of RDF shouldn't be underestimated.  In the hands of a really skilled player it can be a game changer.

 

 

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Have I missed OP's solution on how to balance this skill?
As with any other skill/ship if something is OP for long enough it gets nerfed/removed.

There was no discussions from WG about this skill that means it is not as usefull as you think.

On other hand in your 6k games how many times there was an Kagero that YOU and ONLY you had to kill?

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So you fail to hunt down the slowest DD in the game even with RPF on your captain ? I wonder where the problem might be ...

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It is a strong skill no doubt in offensive and defendive role, so many times in this ranked i was cursing the fate of not having a premium us or pa or ge dd gunboat in t5 or a at least a 14-17pt captain on a podvoisky for the rdf to hunt down those god damn lolibots that keep pestering the caps but what can you do i m not repurposing a main line dd captain for 5k coal

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Alle 22/10/2018 alle 09:26, BarthalomewKuma ha scritto:

Because you only perceive only what you want to. Stop doing so and you can see more. In before it doesn't apply to myself. See I use RPF aswell , if necessary i can give screenshoots of my captain builds at T10 dds , but what is the point ... point is that i know problem from 2 sides. You only see from one. So you are unable to avoid subjective statements. As your proved. 

 

Btw my example is pretty damn good. Sure it's absurd skill, but we got crapton of skills in WoWs and some are substantially stronger than others at same tier ? At t1 ... what cruiser doesn't pick skill allowing to see if anyone targets you and how many people for example ? It's absurdally stronger than others in that case. So my example is pretty good.

 

If we follow your agenda we can add any skill including dropping thermo nuclear loads on enemy ships - as cool as it sounds, sure it won't make balance better can we agree ?

Same goes for RPF - game was fine without RPF, game would be fine without RPF again. Since it breaks more than it fixes given it only makes problem it was bound to fix even bigger ...

 

 

You're evading my point, which completely negates yours:  Everyone can get it.

 

As for your example, well that was you using it badly, not using it well.

 

And by now you are starting strawman argument.  Stick to what I have said, don't try to put words in my mouth about other things.  

 

Alle 22/10/2018 alle 09:32, BarthalomewKuma ha scritto:

"Have I missed OP's solution on how to balance this skill?" indeed. It was bolded out area with explanation aswell why it should happen, not just stating it. Damn bolding out doesn't help either. God please...

 

He wants it removed.

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17 minutes ago, Hedgehog1963 said:

The power of RDF shouldn't be underestimated.  In the hands of a really skilled player it can be a game changer.

 

 

I specifically asked not to provide videos with RPF being represented there ... in fact I had this specific video in mind. 

 

I like flamu, fact is I'm even his sub on Twitch - yeah video is good but he never stated that RPF is balanced. Same he recommends broken ships like belfast to his viewers , even though he thinks it's broken as hell. You get it ... ?

 

Now if you link his video you should agree with what I said above and refrain from using videos that reinforce my arguments even more ? Thanks for your help though.

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2 minutes ago, BarthalomewKuma said:

I specifically asked not to provide videos with RPF being represented there ...

Are you in charge here such that I have to do as you say?

 

 

I think you don't understand that I think this is an excellent and essential perk.  I don't think you understand that you've made no case for it being removed.

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Alle 22/10/2018 alle 09:35, Hedgehog1963 ha scritto:

 

He wants it removed.

 

Seriously ... why we even have discussion if noone bothered to read OP ? 

 

Removed, not really - only from DDS. I never said anything about removing it from cruisers. That is considerable difference in solution.

 

So back to same [edited] are we ?

 

Flamu also strongly recommends Stalingrad and at same time admits what everyone (no not everyone ... actually minority) that ship is broken as hell and unbalanced. 

Does it mean that it's alright and it should stay in game in it's current form ?

 

Apparently everything in this game is perfect , balance is outstanding ... gotta say i'm shocked how perfect this game is. Please forgive me for my stupidity.

How he dares to even question it , right ? Well I can and I will.

 

You know what - i also strongly recommend RPF on your ships.

Same as I strongly recommend IFHE on 152mm guns.

I would also suggest expert marksman on yamato and this or that ...

 

So what just because something is strong equals to being balanced and Necessary in game ? Beat me to it. Insanity at its best.

 

Give me battleship with Radar, sonar , RN super heal, defensive AA 45 knots fast. 16 600mm guns on top of that - it's strong so it must be balanced and it's good - so it stays. Forum logic !

Nice logic chaps ... +1 for amusement.

 

This situation reminds me that whenever I see pretty girl - it must fall for me, must be rich, smart etc. A lot of conclusions must follow. And THEY MUST BE TRUE I REFUSE ANY OTHER OPTION ! Pretty insane to reason with someone who follows such approach in life. So I don't think I will be able to win anything here with arguments, right ?

 

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24 minutes ago, BarthalomewKuma said:

It's not where you think it is. 

 

First of all it's not slowest, there is plenty of ships with similar/smaller speed than kagero.

Second of all you can't always follow it (he turns back towards his radar cruiser spotting area ...) and/ or he is behind cover and would be able to torp you from that spot at point blank range etc. Tons of examples you can't comprehend, but can't blame someone with 2k games for now knowing his crap.

 

And last but not least who said i have RPF on my every captain ? You got it wrong. Sure reading topic then answering is your big problem. You have answer before you even read stuff. Pretty impressive I admit.

As a DD, Kagero is the slowest together with Akizuki. All other DDs are faster....

 

English is your big problem and putting together a coherent post is another. Believe me, I tried to make sense of what you wrote, but it came out as an incoherent RPF whine with several anecdotal arguments thrown together without any logic or reason (that's where you get your failure to hunt down the slowest DD in game from). Also what you wrote is nothing new, all those arguments were already discussed when the skill was introduced in the game. WG did not listen (as usual).

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