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Atorpad

misspositioning of DD divisions

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i have seen this so many times  and it has massive effect on battle results 

DD divisions spawn near eachother and they refuse to split or it takes time to reposition .specially on maps like shatter ...

there should be a solution to this

 

 

1.jpg.4f8c24d8a7e3b7d0037aeaa478c1d4bc.jpgshot-18_10.20_22_35.08-0769.thumb.jpg.ba8f6202d41af64e9edcf36ca96d7c9c.jpg

 

 

pardon me for bad english 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Atorpad said:

i have seen this so many times  and it has massive effect on battle results 

DD divisions spawn near eachother and they refuse to split or it takes time to reposition .specially on maps like shatter ...

there should be a solution to this

 

 

1.jpg.4f8c24d8a7e3b7d0037aeaa478c1d4bc.jpgshot-18_10.20_22_35.08-0769.thumb.jpg.ba8f6202d41af64e9edcf36ca96d7c9c.jpg

 

 

pardon me for bad english 

 

 

 

Fair point and your English is fine.

I agree it's troublesome especially with DD divisions.

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6 minutes ago, Atorpad said:

i have seen this so many times  and it has massive effect on battle results 

DD divisions spawn near eachother and they refuse to split or it takes time to reposition .specially on maps like shatter ...

there should be a solution to this

 

 

1.jpg.4f8c24d8a7e3b7d0037aeaa478c1d4bc.jpgshot-18_10.20_22_35.08-0769.thumb.jpg.ba8f6202d41af64e9edcf36ca96d7c9c.jpg

 

 

pardon me for bad english 

 

 

 

That is a personal player problem. They just play badly.

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Yes, that happens for DDs but it's the same for any division - they usually start close together.

 

I've been in game where there was a division of three top tier BBs - they all started close together and all went to one flank leaving some of the rest of us (me in a two tier lower BB and a CA and a DD on the other flank).   I guess we should have lemminged with the rest of the team.

 

However, if you division together you will want to play in proximity of each other (depending on classes - so a CV, BB and DD divison may want to be on one flank but at varying distance from the enemy).

 

I don't know if it was a division of 3 DDs that they should have different spawns as if they were split they'd probably just spend time grouping up anyway.

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Bringing into the game a division of 3 ships of the same class is not wise, and usually, it is countered hard by the reds with a division of ships from different classes. Even worse if played as OP showed. Potatoes will potatoe. It just hurts more if they are coming in groups multiplying the effect. Some have WR in low 20's in 3 man divs.

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45 minutes ago, BrusilovX said:

I don't know if it was a division of 3 DDs that they should have different spawns as if they were split they'd probably just spend time grouping up anyway.

 

Agree. And since 3 DDs in Divi is usualy super bad for your team (because they are, as already noted, usualy potatos), I´d say limit number of DDs per Division to 2.

Still not optimal but better then nothing.

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46 minutes ago, BrusilovX said:

However, if you division together you will want to play in proximity of each other (depending on classes - so a CV, BB and DD divison may want to be on one flank but at varying distance from the enemy).

 

I don't know if it was a division of 3 DDs that they should have different spawns as if they were split they'd probably just spend time grouping up anyway.

 

The problem is, when there are only 3 DDs in the game, like in the screenshot shown, and they all sit in one spot, then you will eventually lose mapcontrol because you are blind on the other 2/3 of the map. There is really no benefit of having 3 DDs in the same spot, while there are none on the entire rest of the map. 3x BB division is also bad, but atleast they have the range to be doing something even when they are grouping up together. While DDs dont have influence, since you cant spot on other parts of the map.

Usually 3x DD division played badly is like guaranteed loss. Should maybe only allow 2 DDs per division max. (could do that for all classes tho, lowtiers can be excempt till like T4 maybe)

 

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51 minutes ago, Atorpad said:

i have seen this so many times  and it has massive effect on battle results 

DD divisions spawn near eachother and they refuse to split or it takes time to reposition .specially on maps like shatter ...

there should be a solution to this

(...)

 

The general idea of putting divisions together has some merit, but there is a problem with single-class divisions in general, most notably for BBs and DDs, especially if the match happens to be low on the class in question (like in your example - 3 DD div that makes for all the DDs of your team). With bad players this is disastrous (but what bad triple division isn't) but it's a problem even for decent players because suddenly you all spawn on one flank and sometimes it's just not viable to push for control of the flank you started on. Usually the best option is to go for middle+your cap but you're naturally late for the middle cap and the side cap you can go for is decided for you. What makes it worse is the random team that so often doesn't realize that they need to properly support the only flank they have DDs on - so often do I see even BBs going for "empty" caps with no DD to spot for them, screen them and chase away the enemy DDs, so they end up perma-spotted, focused or - worst case - obliterated by the enemy DD that happens to be present on the flank in question and has a field trip with torps when the BB has no DD escort and only limited ability to maneuver because there's no option to go unspotted and turn around without exposing broadside.

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11 ore fa, ForlornSailor ha scritto:

 

Agree. And since 3 DDs in Divi is usualy super bad for your team (because they are, as already noted, usualy potatos), I´d say limit number of DDs per Division to 2.

Still not optimal but better then nothing.

Maybe, have a limit of 1 CV and 2 of any other class in a division?

 

So,

 

1CV, 2 DD

1CV, 2 CA

1CV, 2 BB

2 DD, 1 CA

2 DD, 1 BB  etc

 

 

11 ore fa, DFens_666 ha scritto:

 

3x BB division is also bad, but atleast they have the range to be doing something even when they are grouping up together.

 

Not if those 3 BBs all sail to the edge of the map (on one flank).

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This is a problem with players, not ship types. Any group of three of the same type will mean the other side will have fewer (unless they spawn in the middle, which happens frequently enough). This is sometimes good, and sometimes bad, since the advantage it gives usually provides some extra power for pushing. This is something bad players don't realise. They're not good at pushing advantages, and if you don't do that you have a weak flank and a flank that won't use the advantage it has.

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3 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

That is a personal player problem. They just play badly.

well Maybe WG can make DD's spawn on a cap instead of next to each other.

i mean they want to division with 3 DD's fine. but making them spawn next to each other  just makes them go to the same cap.

Sure they can still go to each other when they spawn differently but it might help a bit. and it should not be hard to fix those shitty spawn positions.

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And you think they will not sail together, if they do spawn differently?

You know that DD are quite quick and they could split up to different caps, if they wanted to? If they wanted to attack different caps, they would do it.

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My suggestions to improve positioning (not only for DD's)?

 

DD's should be spread evenly across the map, especially on domination maps.

CA's should always be placed on the flanks in order to protect them from early BB crossfire once the DD&CA cap fights start.

BB's should always be placed center to literally have them in the midst of the action and to make it inherently difficult for them to run off to far away places.

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3 hours ago, BrusilovX said:

Maybe, have a limit of 1 CV and 2 of any other class in a division?

 

So,

 

1CV, 2 DD

1CV, 2 CA

1CV, 2 BB

2 DD, 1 CA

2 DD, 1 BB  etc

 

I'm against this idea as one of the most fun divisions I have with my clan mates is the Tier VIII 3 secondary spec BB division. 

 

It's hilarious (especially when top tier) and great fun. 3 of you pushing balls deep down a flank,  co-ordinating your fire and selecting some poor sod for the torrential downpour of secondaries. 

 

3 man Khaba divisions also have their appeal, but they are a little anti-social to be fair. 

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4 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Agree. And since 3 DDs in Divi is usualy super bad for your team (because they are, as already noted, usualy potatos), I´d say limit number of DDs per Division to 2.

Still not optimal but better then nothing.

No, that is an absurd idea. Dictating rules because you think a game should be played in a certain way to make it easier for you? That's how you destroy a game. Frankly my 3 DD div games almost always turn into win, we carry potato teams hard. If you are not happy communicate in chat. Not rocket science. 

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Ironically it was a player requested feature to let div mates spawn next to each other (not saying that it wasn't a reasonable request btw). Before that your div mates would spawn randomly.

I'd say instead of hard-locking spawns give divisions preferential spawning instead. So for example if there is a 1 DD / 1 CA / 1 BB div, they are almost guaranteed to spawn in the same sector. However if there are 3 DDs like in the case above they will only be spawned together if there are additional DDs to fill vacancies in other sectors, otherwise they will be distributed evenly like if they were not in a div.

 

This will also prevent stupid stuff such as a DD getting a CV spawn far behind everyone else just because he divisioned with a CV and the game sought the closest spawn point.

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Limiting classes to max 2 per div. could be small help, but the overall spawn points could use some tinkering.. When playing BBs (especially lower tier slow ones) its suck to spawn in the middle far behind everyone, when only 2 DDs spawn on the flanks so I know there is no scouting in the middle, now I can't support those DDs at all, all that I can do is take pot shots at enemy BBs while trying to get in to position to actually support my team.

 

Not to mention spawning alone in the corner of land of fire :D 

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Vor 11 Stunden, BrusilovX sagte:

However, if you division together you will want to play in proximity of each other (depending on classes - so a CV, BB and DD divison may want to be on one flank but at varying distance from the enemy).

I haven't done much divisioning but my understanding is it is better to use ship types that are in some way, shape or form able to mutually support each other. Complement each other with capabilities the other one lacks.

 

You have to be careful with generalizations but this side of pure troll divisions, having a purely BBs division strikes me as particularly not smart in that respect.

 

A pure DD division can of course be extremely effective since they can keep taking turns spotting while the other is firing from smoke. But even that cannot work if both are in the exact same spot.

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8 hours ago, Bear_Necessities said:

No, that is an absurd idea. Dictating rules because you think a game should be played in a certain way to make it easier for you? That's how you destroy a game. Frankly my 3 DD div games almost always turn into win, we carry potato teams hard.

No, that rule would make the game more fun for 9 ppl in your team. Only because 1% of the time a 3x same class division is actually decent doesnt justify 99% of them being garbage and make you lose the game.

 

 

8 hours ago, Bear_Necessities said:

If you are not happy communicate in chat. Not rocket science. 

 

 

 

Ye right.. like talking to those imbecils is actually doing anything. You could talk 2 days straight about how they should play and it still wouldnt change their behaviour. Who knows if they havent turned their chat off because they get insulted anyway :Smile_facepalm:

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9 hours ago, Bear_Necessities said:

If you are not happy communicate in chat. Not rocket science. 

200.gif

 

You do actually PLAY this game, right?

 

10 hours ago, Ubertron_X said:

CA's should always be placed on the flanks in order to protect them from early BB crossfire once the DD&CA cap fights start.

 

I fully support everything you said. Especially for some cruisers, there exist hilarious spawns. Ever spawnd in the center of Hotspot with Donskoi or Moskva?

 

9 hours ago, Captain_KriegWurst said:

I'm against this idea as one of the most fun divisions I have with my clan mates is the Tier VIII 3 secondary spec BB division. 

 

It's hilarious (especially when top tier) and great fun. 3 of you pushing balls deep down a flank,  co-ordinating your fire and selecting some poor sod for the torrential downpour of secondaries. 

 

3 man Khaba divisions also have their appeal, but they are a little anti-social to be fair. 

 

Looking from another angle - those are actually also good reasons to implement the suggestions from @BrusilovX.

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4 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

Looking from another angle - those are actually also good reasons to implement the suggestions from @BrusilovX.

 

Meh, let the opposition get good. It's not like we don't offer a chance of counter play. Sometimes it goes horribly wrong very quickly (which is still hilarious). But you'd still get cancer divisions even with his restrictions. I agree that spawns could use some tinkering. I too have been the lone guy on a flank in the New Mexico miles away from anyone else and getting the full attention of the enemy CV while I try to make it to the flank where the rest of the team has positioned. But restricting people's choice of how and what they can play just because someone else doesn't like it is over the top.

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1 minute ago, Captain_KriegWurst said:

But restricting people's choice of how and what they can play just because someone else doesn't like it is over the top.

 

Can I play a CV with my buddy picking a CV aswell?

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5 minutes ago, Captain_KriegWurst said:

But you'd still get cancer divisions even with his restrictions.

 

Atleast they couldnt use 3 out of 3 DD spots then. If a Division can have only 2 DDs, then there is atleast a pretty good chance that you get a 3rd DD, which wont go to the same cap just because its in a Division.

3x BB division would probably be as worse if there wouldnt be 5 BBs anyway per side.

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37 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Can I play a CV with my buddy picking a CV aswell?

Dunno can you?  I have no interest in CVs other than sinking them (If they're in range. I'm not one of those numpties who goes chasing them and ignores everything else) so I don't know how their MM works. 

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43 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Can I play a CV with my buddy picking a CV aswell?

Are you arguing that the only reason two CVs can't division up together is "because someone else doesn't like it"?

 

1 minute ago, Captain_KriegWurst said:

Dunno can you?  I have no interest in CVs other than sinking them (If they're in range. I'm not one of those numpties who goes chasing them and ignores everything else) so I don't know how their MM works. 

Only one CV is allowed per division. This is for the exact same reason as why CVs are limited to one or two per team: They're horribly imbalanced and broken. And why they're getting a rework.

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