Objection against participant choice of CV "Beta Test"

[KarmaQU_EU]

From the announcement on the main page here:

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/carriers_rework_starting_pack/

 

Apparently only "active" CV players were chosen, and there will have to be AI bots to even guarantee matchmaking smoothness.

So I'll be 'that guy' and say I am quite disappointed in this chosen course of events. 

 

It shows you value AI bots over your actual players. Pretty much it.

 

As for only current CV players allowed, then why send that email to all prior CV players? Even though they have no chance of getting into the test? Some kind of stupid marketing stunt?

 

Shouldn't the opinion of all players be valuable, and tenfold moreso for a rework of this magnitude? Both players and non-players of CV, both high tier and low tier players, both current and past players, both console and non console players, both RTS and other genre players? I mean, isn't the point of a CV rework partly to coax back past CV players, and other lost players from the past due to CV? Wouldn't you want a balanced array of opinion and impression feedback from players of different bands of the timeline?

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I remember back in the actual 'open' beta, and brief 'honeymoon period' from the beginning of launch, where all kinds of players from all kinds of dispositions played the game, and people simply enjoyed it for fun. Before the exploitative, hardcore grinders and griefers, (that includes me sorry) and the kind of players WG 'caters to', irreversibly twisted the meta of the game towards something less generally enjoyable and more depressing and limited.

 

The kind of players who would have still stayed with WG over all this time (while actively playing) are, (without point fingers specifically though I understand this is a bit offensive but I am quite mad), players who more likely buy into this grindfest of a game WG tries to sell than not. And letting only those players participant in a test is akin to what people sometimes accuse me of ... sitting in your own ivory tower, listening only to desirable feedback from your own little echo chamber, WG.

 

P.S. It seems someone was right about WG not even wanting to spare the extra electricity and CPU power for a chance to improve the game and player experience. I had disagreed with them because even I thought WG wouldn't be that stingy.

[Exocet6951]

1 hour ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

there will have to be AI bots to even guarantee matchmaking smoothness.

 

Also, that way there are more semi-intelligent enemies.
Not just people who sail in a straight line, ignore planes, and only react to torpedo warnings (poorly), then complain that CVs OP.

 

1 hour ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

Apparently only "active" CV players were chosen

 

It makes sense. A class is being fundamentally reworked.

What's the point in having a preliminary test to get feedback on the changes from people  who have not, or barely played a class? And keep in mind, I've played less than 200 CV games in 3 years, so the net was cast very widely.

 

1 hour ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

It shows you value AI bots over your actual players. Pretty much it.

Yesterday, someone in a T9 DD called someone a hacker for spotting him in smoke. That someone had a radar.
I value AI bots over the average player, that's for sure.

 

 

1 hour ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

As for only current CV players allowed, then why send that email to all prior CV players? Even though they have no chance of getting into the test? Some kind of stupid marketing stunt?

 

From the very link you sent:

Quote

How do you decide who is going to participate in the test?

It's not rocket science. We made sure each server is equally represented on the test. We selected players from several groups, based on their game activity and preferences. To properly test new CVs we need the feedback from various points of view.

It's all sorts of CV players, from the unicums playing exclusively CVs to the CV scrub with 2% of his battles in CV like me.
From what I gather, the people chosen were the people who have actually played CV more than once, accidentally.

 

 

1 hour ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

Shouldn't the opinion of all players be valuable, and tenfold moreso for a rework of this magnitude?

Graf Zep says hi.
The opinion of all players, including those who are intrinsically against CVs as a concept, is not helpful.
I don't care about my mailman's opinion on medical matters, and I don't care about my doctor's opinion on the benefits of X type of letter over Y.

 

 

1 hour ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

I remember back in the actual 'open' beta, and brief 'honeymoon period' from the beginning of launch, where all kinds of players from all kinds of dispositions played the game, and people simply enjoyed it for fun. Before the exploitative, hardcore grinders and griefers, (that includes me sorry) and the kind of players WG 'caters to',

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwSts2s4ba4

 

Are you seriously arguing that things like the Graf Zep, Belfast, German/RN BBs, etc...were designed with the hardcore player in mind, rather than the casual player who can hop into one of those machines, have a good time and feel the desire to spend money on the game?
 

 

1 hour ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

And letting only those players participant in a test is akin to what people sometimes accuse me of ... sitting in your own ivory tower, listening only to desirable feedback from your own little echo chamber, WG.

Perhaps for once they'll actually listen to the advice given from people who know what they're talking about, rather than people who know nothing, act like they do, then complain about the result anyway despite being at fault for the mess it created.
CF: Graf Zep. Best possible example of listening to everyone except the people who know what they're talking about.
 

 

1 hour ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

P.S. It seems someone was right about WG not even wanting to spare the extra electricity and CPU power for a chance to improve the game and player experience.

Sounds to me like they're saving up on server bills and getting a chance to improve the game. Win win.
 

 

 

 

EDIT: Point in case, here's someone you wanted to invite on the CV test server:

5 hours ago, LazyVegetable said:

CVs should have been removed from the game and reworked in CBT, not now.

 

At this point, every single time i see a CV in the game, i want to rip my eyes out, cut off my ears, stick a knife through my legs and shoot myself in the face with a shotgun at point blank, this is how CVs make me feel.

 

They are extremely low-skill overpowered bs ships since day one. The person who is responsible for these abominations should honestly be fired and prohibited by law from ever interacting with any game development ever again.

 

Do you think his input would have been constructive?

[Sir_Grzegorz]

I was convinced that this choice was made so they do not have to listen to all the children whining that UI is bugged? There will be quite a few issues not working properly and to find that you do not need plenty of people. I was assuming that there will be next open beta or what you call it, where everyone can participate?

 

What I do not like is the fact you need to download separate game instance, and whatever you do there gives you no progress on missions/tasks on live server. We did test GZ on live server I did agree for testing of new CV but I am far from installing separate game for that purpose. Unless all the RN arc progress will be reflected on my main account just like it was with GZ, it did count towards everything applicable.

[Guillotine]

You cant just remove normal CV mode from game and let selected few test very early product at live servers. 

 

[PapVogele]

I dont know about active... I played ONE coop game when I had a mission to shoot down some planes and I got an invite....

[Yedwy]

Probabbly totaly random selection from the list of aplicants

[Xevious_Red]

It's not active CV players only.

 

I got an email informing me about it even though I haven't played carriers for months.

 

The actual test seems to have all sorts in it - I'm in. My mate didn't receive an email (never played CV ever) but he clicked apply when it showed up on the main page. He's in too.

[ghostbuster_]

2 hours ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

From the very link you sent:

It's all sorts of CV players, from the unicums playing exclusively CVs to the CV scrub with 2% of his battles in CV like me.
From what I gather, the people chosen were the people who have actually played CV more than once, accidentally.

Yesterday i checked stats of a player who is chosen for the test. He had 35 battles with CVs. And those CVs were hosho, langley and bogue... amazing feedback source right f.cking there... this is just wg showing middle finger to good CV players once more.

[tajj7]

9 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Yesterday i checked stats of a player who is chosen for the test. He had 35 battles with CVs. And those CVs were hosho, langley and bogue... amazing feedback source right f.cking there... this is just wg showing middle finger to good CV players once more.

 

Sounds like the EXACT sort of player they should be using, a player who has tried and was interested in the class but was put off after playing it, probably because of the gameplay.

 

The rebalance is to make the class MORE popular, not less, so why the hell would you only get hard core CV players involved? If anything those sort of players should be less represented because they are going to be most resistant to change. 

 

They should be choosing players from across the whole playerbase for feedback, not just CV players, because the idea is to make the class more appealing to more players. 

[dasCKD]

How do you know if you're chosen for the test?

[ghostbuster_]

1 minute ago, tajj7 said:

 

Sounds like the EXACT sort of player they should be using, a player who has tried and was interested in the class but was put off after playing it, probably because of the gameplay.

 

The rebalance is to make the class MORE popular, not less, so why the hell would you only get hard core CV players involved? If anything those sort of players should be less represented because they are going to be most resistant to change. 

 

They should be choosing players from across the whole playerbase for feedback, not just CV players, because the idea is to make the class more appealing to more players. 

at tier 4 and 5 there is not even manual drop. no strafing. its just full mong mod on clicking fiesta. so that guy didnt even see the half of the CV gameplay.... 

 

so those non-experienced CV players is a good feedback source when it comes to balancing the class? yeah, sure....

[ghostbuster_]

1 minute ago, dasCKD said:

How do you know if you're chosen for the test?

you get an email which gives you username and passwort.

[Egoleter]

They completly changed the CV gameplay from what it was before. Why should only previous hardcore CV players be allowed to test and provide feedback on the completly new system, when it has almost nothing in common with the previous implementation? Such a suggestion makes no sense to me.

 

Everyone needs to be able to adapt to the new system. New players and veterans alike. So it needs feedback from both groups.

[tajj7]

1 minute ago, ghostbuster_ said:

at tier 4 and 5 there is not even manual drop. no strafing. its just full mong mod on clicking fiesta. so that guy didnt even see the half of the CV gameplay.... 

 

so those non-experienced CV players is a good feedback source when it comes to balancing the class? yeah, sure....

 

They aren't really balancing a class, fixing the numbers is not that important right now, they are testing a concept, they want to see if players find the new CV gameplay interesting and having non-CV players would be a key area of feedback. 

 

Having just CV players testing would be plain stupidity, they are biased, unlikely to be objective and as we have seen many of them are openly hostile the changes, which makes most hardcore CV players poor choices to be testers for this IMO. You need a cross section of views and experience, especially when the focus is to make the class more popular. 

[ghostbuster_]

2 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

 

They aren't really balancing a class, fixing the numbers is not that important right now, they are testing a concept, they want to see if players find the new CV gameplay interesting and having non-CV players would be a key area of feedback. 

 

Having just CV players testing would be plain stupidity, they are biased, unlikely to be objective and as we have seen many of them are openly hostile the changes, which makes most hardcore CV players poor choices to be testers for this IMO. You need a cross section of views and experience, especially when the focus is to make the class more popular. 

im not saying only CV mains ffs. i said experienced and good CV players. like 500+ battles or 1k+ battles in CVs. you can set the limit in between. 

so other way around is not biased. a person who sucks in current CVs, is probably gonna be for this rework no matter what. 

 

[Yedwy]

Your last sentence - spot on

[tajj7]

9 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

im not saying only CV mains ffs. i said experienced and good CV players. like 500+ battles or 1k+ battles in CVs. you can set the limit in between. 

so other way around is not biased. a person who sucks in current CVs, is probably gonna be for this rework no matter what. 

 

 

From what I have seen most experienced CV players are against the proposed changes, which is logical, they play something a lot they are likely to be resistant to that being changed.

 

Someone who doesn't play any CVs currently is exactly the sort of person they are trying to attract. You seem to be under the idea that a rework might not happen based on feedback, that seems naive, a rebalance is going to happen whatever, WG have pretty much stated the current class is too unpopular for a change not to happen. It's just whether this particular change is the way forward. 

 

Would seem to me on that basis non-CV players, the ones they are actively trying to attract are going to be the best testers for that purpose. 

[Egoleter]

14 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

a person who sucks in current CVs, is probably gonna be for this rework no matter what.

And if they are equally bad with the new version too?

 

I'm sorry, but it seems you are missing the point of this rework. It is done to get CVs better balanced and more incorporated into the actual gameplay instead of them being a seperate point and click RTS game. They are also supposed to bring more players to play those ships on equal terms with each other. The new system no longer needs the former pro CV players. It needs and will create new ones.

[Nechrom]

I mean the rework is happening either way. There's no "CV player" versus "non-CV player".

They just want help getting some substantial data on what works and what needs tuning/rethinking.

As with most testing, it's less about getting written feedback from players and more about gathering statistics on how it all shakes out when in the hands of a statistically significant cross section of the playerbase.

Do people have a hard time hitting targets? Is one method of attack substantially more difficult than others? Are the "bad players" not using all the features and if so, to what degree? Etc etc.

[Xevious_Red]

This isn't the balancing test anyway -They pretty much said that the values will.all be off, and everyone behaves differently in tests anyway.

So no, the AA value of the Montana will not be dictated by someone who has only ever used the Hosho and just spams his planes into the nearest worcester.

Those values will be tested by ST.

 

This is a test of the concept - do people find it enjoyable to play? Is it intuitive? Is there enough "skill" or does everyone get the same results?

 

For this you need good players, average players, and bad players if for nothing more than comparing how well the good do vs the bad.

 

You also need existing CV players, players that have never played  CV before, ideally totally new players as well, to see how easily they pick it up, and if they find it enjoyable or frustrating, or if they just totally don't get it.

 

The values for what HP planes have, how many in a squad, cycle times etc will be done by ST, not the general unwashed public.

[Toto_Bit]

ich möchte den cv testen

 

[Major_Damage225]

4 minutes ago, Toto_Bit said:

ich möchte den cv testen

 

Your in the english part of the forum. 

 

Anyway, @KarmaQU_EU cool off lol, just because you didnt get accepted dosent mean you have to open a topic about it, i didnt get to try the cv's either yet would have loved to(and give my feedback on every aspect), as do many yet noone is complaning abou it. 

[JaiFoh]

9 hours ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

From the announcement on the main page here:

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/carriers_rework_starting_pack/

 

Apparently only "active" CV players were chosen, and there will have to be AI bots to even guarantee matchmaking smoothness.

So I'll be 'that guy' and say I am quite disappointed in this chosen course of events. 

 

i was chosen
i have at max 100 games in CV across Randoms, CO-OP and Scenario's 

[LazyVegetable]

9 hours ago, Exocet6951 said:

Do you think his input would have been constructive?

Just gonna drop by and state that I am actively avoiding being invited towards the test of the reworked carriers specifically because I am fully aware I am extremely biased against CVs and unable to provide constructive criticism on them.

 

It would be great if you wouldn't be so passive-aggressive towards me.

[Exocet6951]

4 minutes ago, LazyVegetable said:

Just gonna drop by and state that I am actively avoiding being invited towards the test of the reworked carriers specifically because I am fully aware I am extremely biased against CVs and unable to provide constructive criticism on them.

 

It would be great if you wouldn't be so passive-aggressive towards me.

 

I legit don't care about you. 

 

I'm merely using your post as an example why you can't just invite everyone. 

 

PS: you might not want to talk about aggressiveness when you're talking about self mutilation and someone getting fired over a class of vehicles in a video game.