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Hexxas

Tier 10 only brackett

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i think its about time Wargaming making a tier 10 bracket for 10 ships only ,
im tired of getting up tier by 2 every time i play my tier 8 ships ,
reason why i think its about time is
+2 tier up /down is unfair , it shoud be +1 up /down
tier 10 ship against tier 8 well thats an pretty unfair match up for the tier 8
tier 10 have better armor , better range on guns , higher dps and some have even supoer fast reload so tier 8 looses there too
and since more and more player play tier 10 it might be better to do the tier 10 bracket like in world of tanks
i know im not the only one that feels this an unfair fight in fact alot of player thinks is unfair make +2 up/down tier unless you are top tier every time
but the game is build on progressing in ships but when you hit an wall like 11 tier 10´s and 1 tier 8 then ill say its time to change the bracketts

brackets as i feel they should look like
tier 10 only plays tier 10
tier 9-8-7 plays againt tier 9-8-7
tier 6-5-4 plays against tier 6-5-4
tier 3-2-1 plays against tier 3-2-1

 

its a pretty much +1 up/down tier and i do beleave that wargaming should do this now

 

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7 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

brackets as i feel they should look like
tier 10 only plays tier 10
tier 9-8-7 plays againt tier 9-8-7
tier 6-5-4 plays against tier 6-5-4
tier 3-2-1 plays against tier 3-2-1

 

 

...and so T3 T6 and T9 are always top tier?... did you, like, even think for half a second before posting that? doesnt look like it...

 

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yes thought about that , and i still think its a better way to do the brackets since tier 10 is the end game tier
and tbh i do beleave that wargaming should change theire mm alot becouse this game is getting old fast
if they dont do anything about thier 10 vs tier 8 issue
i know the game could never be balance 100 % but lets face it 11 tier 10 and you the only one in tier 8 thats
pretty unfair match up and its not just 1 time this has happen it happens alot lately .

about tier 3-6-9 issue well lower tiers the balance is better except when playing cw then you can be fighting a tier 6

where you strafe an tier 5 cw and the tier 5 cw can only point and click.


 

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Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense. 

 

You are tired of getting uptiered in your T8? What about that T7 constantly meeting T8 and never being top tier in your system? 

 

And of course it doesn't make any sense for WG from an economical standpoint as well. WG makes money from people feeling the need to grind. 

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

about tier 3-6-9 issue well lower tiers the balance is better

 

Yea. Right. I cant see anthing wrong with going into battle as a Hermelin against a Bellerophon.

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This is one of those things that will not happen.

 

The whole F2P economy is underpinned by T10's clubbing T8's and T9's. Want to always be the clubber instead of the clubbee? Easy! Get a T10 yourself. This is why people REALLY play T10 so much, although they might make excuses to prefer that tier for other reasons. What, that grind is feeling slow? Here's some premium time to help you along -- ka-ching.

 

I would be in favour of +1/-1 MM, but I guess that too might be too comfortable. Some people might figure that, hell, these T7 games are nicer anyway -- and I can do it without premium time easily -- so why not stop here? 

In short, the experience needs to suck enough -- but not quite too much -- to keep you grinding.

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Either everyone gets +/-1 MM or noone should. Making certain tiers always the "sucker" is not nice. You are saying that T8 currently is kinda in that spot, and you want to put 3 other tiers in the same position.

Also, T8 handles T10 imo much better than T6 can handle T8.

Any T8 BB can bowtank any T9/10 BB (Musashi and Yamato are the only exceptions) while no T6 BB can bowtank any T8 BB, but T8 BBs can bowtank all lower tier BBs. So the armor point isnt really a thing.

Only some Cruisers have better armor at T10 than the previous ones. Zao has 25mm, while Ibuki and Mogami have the same basicly (Ibuki even has some 30mm afaik). US CAs all have 27mm atleast. Hindenburg is more tanky than Hipper and Roon, but they can tank some BBs easily too. Moskva is totaly different to the ones before it. US CLs all have 25mm. French Henri IV has 30mm armor while the others dont, so he can tank a bit better against some BBs. Forgot something? Dont think so

DDs: I think they have the same armor from T8 onwords with Khaba being an exception. If anything, T7 DDs are shafted way more when uptiered because at T8 you get the concealment module, which makes DD much stealthier at T8 compared to T7.

 

 Other points you made:
Yes, they are more true, but if you are T8 in a T10 battle, then the enemies have also T8 ships in there. You perform better than them, you can achieve victory more often even in a inferior ship.

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46 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

i think its about time Wargaming making a tier 10 bracket for 10 ships only ,
im tired of getting up tier by 2 every time i play my tier 8 ships ,
reason why i think its about time is
+2 tier up /down is unfair , it shoud be +1 up /down
tier 10 ship against tier 8 well thats an pretty unfair match up for the tier 8
tier 10 have better armor , better range on guns , higher dps and some have even supoer fast reload so tier 8 looses there too
and since more and more player play tier 10 it might be better to do the tier 10 bracket like in world of tanks
i know im not the only one that feels this an unfair fight in fact alot of player thinks is unfair make +2 up/down tier unless you are top tier every time
but the game is build on progressing in ships but when you hit an wall like 11 tier 10´s and 1 tier 8 then ill say its time to change the bracketts

brackets as i feel they should look like
tier 10 only plays tier 10
tier 9-8-7 plays againt tier 9-8-7
tier 6-5-4 plays against tier 6-5-4
tier 3-2-1 plays against tier 3-2-1

 

its a pretty much +1 up/down tier and i do beleave that wargaming should do this now

 

TBH OP, your tier 8s would struggle against tier 6 so i don't think it matters too much what ships are in you battles.  :Smile_sceptic:

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adjusting the weighting of the matchmaking should be enough. But something must be done, I agree with that. T8 seeing some T10 battles is OK. But what it's not OK is 2/3 battles seeing T10 matchmaking....and 50% of the rest of time seeing T9s.

It's unfair compared with other tiers because of the quantum leap in ship power from T8 to T9, and then the similar quantum leap from T9 to T10.

 

BTW Tier 5 has similar issues, but at least grinding a Tier 5 is a fast deal. Having to do it in a T8 with the current matchmaking is complete nonsense.

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9 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Other points you made:
Yes, they are more true, but if you are T8 in a T10 battle, then the enemies have also T8 ships in there. You perform better than them, you can achieve victory more often even in a inferior ship.

2

 

 

That you perform well in your T8 ship means nothing if your team's top tiers are glue-sniffing addicts. You can wipe the floor with the other team's counterpart of your ship, but if the top dogs are wiping their arse in the map's border while the other team's show a minimum degree of competence, you might aswell go read a novel because there's no way you're going to win.

 

Besides, we all know what kind of T10 matchmaking we're speaking of here. It's not as if there are 2-3 Top tiers, 4-5 T9s and the rest T8s...most of this battles are more than half the team T10, most of the rest T9s, and one or two poor sods in T8s. So yeah. Good luck with that.

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Just now, RAMJB said:

That you perform well in your T8 ship means nothing if your team's top tiers are glue-sniffing addicts. You can wipe the floor with the other team's counterpart of your ship, but if the top dogs are wiping their arse in the map's border, you might aswell go read a novel because there's no way you're going to win.

 

You should have the better T10 players as often as the enemies, so your own performance is still relevant :fish_book:

For one individual battle you can be right - but not when you play often enough.

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

You should have the better T10 players as often as the enemies, so your own performance is still relevant :fish_book:

For one individual battle you can be right - but not when you play often enough.

 

Certainly. Doesn't mean its any more fun that way. Hence the problem we're talking about, and the need of a solution. Maybe different MM weighing, something. Seeing T10s in tier 8s is OK but seeing them all the time is not, specially when so many of those times it's not there's only one or two T8s in each team

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tbh i have 3 tier 10 my self and i still think +2 up / down tier is way to unfair , atleast i dare to speak my mind
and see it from other angle than people that only plays tier 10 , +2 up/down tier needs to go and mm need a overhaul

I still support tier 10 bracket stand alone , and i do feel +1 up/down tier is best way , but this where you keep ending up in tier 10 mm
and if you are lucky there is max 3 tier 8 in that game , thats really unfair match up and it  will keep people from playing the game in the long run.

im actualy considdering quiting the game my self becouse of thease MM issues becouse it thinks is bad
tbh tier 10 brackett working in world of tanks and it will work here as well. people just need to accepted that playing tier 10 will not give you easy tier kills anymore

but that again i was  allso against the stats when wargaming made thouse public and still is , but im not and elite player in the game and stats i dont care about.

all i care about is having fun and as the game is right now its not fun anymore , changes is needed.

 

 

anyways its getting late here so im off to bed , but its nice that we can chat about this on the forum in a friendly way :)

 


 

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23 minutes ago, RAMJB said:

 

Certainly. Doesn't mean its any more fun that way. Hence the problem we're talking about, and the need of a solution. Maybe different MM weighing, something. Seeing T10s in tier 8s is OK but seeing them all the time is not, specially when so many of those times it's not there's only one or two T8s in each team

 

The solution cant be to shift the unfavourable MM to another tier - as the OP suggests.

Its hard to force the MM to make you toptier as often as lowtier, since it always depends on the amount of ships played on certain tiers. So if there arent many T6 ships to begin with, i cant pair them as often with T8 ships. T8 ships should be plenty around (atleast it was at somepoint when i checked the numbers), mostly Bismarck and Tirpitz. At that point i realized, playing T8 BB will yield you a toptier place more often than playing a T8 Cruiser. And it even worked. Currently i dont know however, since it depends what ships/tiers are played at which amount.

 

28 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

all i care about is having fun and as the game is right now its not fun anymore

 

Maybe not play T8? Usually T7 has pretty nice MM, so you would want to try this out. I mean, if T8 is not fun to play, why force it? I dont like to play hightiers so much, so i dont play it as often (which was proven right pretty much today ~~)

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does it really matter if you have to wait 1-2 min more than now to get a better mm ? i dont think so
i reather have a fair mix  of ships in 1 game than unfair mix of ships in 5 games , but thats how i am and think .

 

Dfens about the tier 7 thingy i play every thing from tier 2 to tier 10 except tier 9 , i feel tier 9 suks, 
but as i wrote earlyr in this topic , its a progression game meaning you getting forced to play tier 8 and 9 if you want the end game ship tier 10
so why not make it fair for people that progression in the game instead of slamming them into tier 10 mm all the time ?

i dont mind working to reach the goal as long its fair , but +2 up/down is not fair , and tbh tier 10 is the end game ship and should be

in a brackett for them self  ( you cant change my mind on this becouse i seen this work in world of tanks and know it can work here as well )

 

anyways im logging of the forum or my tablet keep waking me up with notice for the forum hehe
goodnight everyone :)

 

 

 

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>"T8 vs T10 is unfair, because of differences in armour in firepower"

>suggests pitting T7 only against T8 and T9

 

Oh boy...

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1 hour ago, jss78 said:

This is one of those things that will not happen.

 

The whole F2P economy is underpinned by T10's clubbing T8's and T9's. Want to always be the clubber instead of the clubbee? Easy! Get a T10 yourself. This is why people REALLY play T10 so much, although they might make excuses to prefer that tier for other reasons. What, that grind is feeling slow? Here's some premium time to help you along -- ka-ching.

 

I would be in favour of +1/-1 MM, but I guess that too might be too comfortable. Some people might figure that, hell, these T7 games are nicer anyway -- and I can do it without premium time easily -- so why not stop here? 

In short, the experience needs to suck enough -- but not quite too much -- to keep you grinding.

Your reply is excellent! :Smile_honoring:   Please make sure that you save it and re-post it whenever threads such as this one are created.

 

"In short, the experience needs to suck enough -- but not quite too much -- to keep you grinding." 

Agreed, while remembering that what ever level of grind Wargaming set will be tolerable to some and intolerable to others.

 

I have ten tier X ships and will work to get the USS Worcester and HMS Daring, but I have no stomach for grinding the other remaining lines TBH.

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24 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

, its a progression game meaning you getting forced to play tier 8 and 9 if you want the end game ship tier 10

 

That is, if you actually want to play T10. I dont really want to play it so much. The game is just so boring at hightiers. The amount of T8+ battles i played is mostly due to WG forcing me to get rewards.

Other than that, there is not so much reason to play hightier battles, alltho i did like ofc some ships (Missouri is mostly fun :cap_haloween:), Hindenburg i do like, but again, games are just so boring. Or lately its only steamrolls, which are boring aswell.

On midtiers they dont happen so much, and even some initial losses can be compensated.

I pretty much have most lines on hold right now, i just see no reason to grind them, because i dont like playing T10. Been playing over 2 years, and i only have 4 T10s - 2 of which i got only last month, and even one of those is Salem for Coal.

And the other reason is, i would need to play some ships on T6/7/8/9 where i do have ships which i like more, lets take Algerie for example. Why should i play that, when i can play Fiji which makes much more fun? Only to get CM/STL/HIV which i dont want to play either :Smile_teethhappy:

 

So yeah, i got this whole "grinding to T10" pretty early out of my system. Still i can do most (if not all) missions which WG is throwing at me to get rewards when i want to.

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29 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

 i dont think so

 

From the OP onwards, thinking is something you DID NOT DO, let that sink in.

 

Now, back to your issues, why dont you try learning to play? Your stats are not bad in just 1 aspect either, you seem to be able to suck right across the board.

 

Please keep yourself to coop, at least there I will be able to carry your weight myself.

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53 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

The solution cant be to shift the unfavourable MM to another tier - as the OP suggests.

3

 

No, the solution is changing the weighing system of the MM for T10 battles so it gives decent results. When someone grabs a ship of a given tier, he should see top tier games 33% of the time, be midtier 33% of the time, be bottom tier 33%. 

This is not true in the case of tier 8, not by a long shot, and not by far. If in order to have a more decent MM spread for T8, the tier 10 battles require 20 more seconds to get going, so that poor sod in his T8 isn't forced to take a spot in that battle and the system waits for another T10 more times than what it currently does, so be it.

But what can't be is that two out of each three battles you have to face Yamatos, Montanas, Des Moines, Harugumos or Midways in your stock Mogami. Just to put an instance. It should be 1/3 toptier, 1/3 midtier, 1/3 low tier. T8s have to see T10s, I agree with that. But doesn't mean they have to see them all the friggin' time.

 

 

BTW and I insist, this should hold true for all tiers. Because T8 is not the only one that gets constantly shafted. T5 also does because of the completely absurd idea of limit T4s to +1MM. But as I previously said, at least after a couple dozen battles you're out of your T5 ship because they're easy to grind. With a T8 it takes a long time, a lot of battles, and the process ends up being unsufferable.

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I'm fine with having tier 10 ships in a match when I play my tier 8, BUT! There really need to be a cap to how many of each of the three tiers there is in a match. This goes for all tiers, not just the top three tiers.

 

In matches were there are three tiers.
A tier 5, 6 and 7 match of 12 vs. 12 should be made up of no less than 6 tier 5 ships on each team and no more than 3 tier 6 and 3 tier 7. Meaning the split should be 1/2 lowest tier, 1/4 mid tier and 1/4 high tier. But the best solution is just to make the MM +/- 1 tier, meaning if you play tier 7 then you can only get matches with either tier 6 and 7, or with tier 7 and 8, never tier 6, 7 and 8. And if you are in a division, then it should be after the highest tier in the division, meaning if there's a division made up of tier 3 and 4 ships, then it will be tier 4 +/- 1. Two tiered divisions should be the only way a match can have three tiers and with the amount of divisions I've seen in matches it will really be a rare thing.

 

If the MM was set up like this then I wouldn't mind, but as it is now, when I play my tier 8's that I'm close to giving up on where I keep getting matches where there are very often just 2-3 tier 8, no tier 9 and the rest is tier 10 the game become very unplayable because the difference between tier 8 and 10 is just too big. Many of the tier 10 cruisers just need to poke my tier 8 British light cruiser and I'm pretty much dead, while in return I can't even get in range before I'm dead.

 

So.. Yeah.. As the MM is now on the last 3 tiers I find it almost unplayable. I've started grinding other nations and I will stop playing anything beyond tier 7, not even going to bother buying the tier 8's until something is changed so that it's actually playable.

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Vor 6 Stunden, Hexxas sagte:



brackets as i feel they should look like
tier 10 only plays tier 10
tier 9-8-7 plays againt tier 9-8-7
tier 6-5-4 plays against tier 6-5-4
tier 3-2-1 plays against tier 3-2-1

 

its a pretty much +1 up/down tier and i do beleave that wargaming should do this now

 

And it's ok for Tier7 to constantly face enemies who have access to the concealment module and faster reload module?

 

I actually support your request a bit but would alter it to: do not necessarily put T8 ships in a T10 battle. If there are enough T10 and T9 ships in the queue, refrain from adding one or two T8s.

And: whenever possible create battles with only one tier difference. That should be the prefered goal of the matchmaker.

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Vor 5 Stunden, DFens_666 sagte:

 

That is, if you actually want to play T10. I dont really want to play it so much. The game is just so boring at hightiers. The amount of T8+ battles i played is mostly due to WG forcing me to get rewards.

Other than that, there is not so much reason to play hightier battles, alltho i did like ofc some ships (Missouri is mostly fun :cap_haloween:), Hindenburg i do like, but again, games are just so boring. Or lately its only steamrolls, which are boring aswell.

On midtiers they dont happen so much, and even some initial losses can be compensated.

I pretty much have most lines on hold right now, i just see no reason to grind them, because i dont like playing T10. Been playing over 2 years, and i only have 4 T10s - 2 of which i got only last month, and even one of those is Salem for Coal.

And the other reason is, i would need to play some ships on T6/7/8/9 where i do have ships which i like more, lets take Algerie for example. Why should i play that, when i can play Fiji which makes much more fun? Only to get CM/STL/HIV which i dont want to play either :Smile_teethhappy:

 

So yeah, i got this whole "grinding to T10" pretty early out of my system. Still i can do most (if not all) missions which WG is throwing at me to get rewards when i want to.

For me it's very similar. Only started to grind some T10 when they introduced clan battles.

At some point I got a bit upset of too much naive gameplay in the midtiers. To escape this I moved up to high tiers only to find the same level of questionable player abilities there. And of course the abundance of 3-players divisions where I mostly tend to play solo. So, what's the point?

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Sometimes I wish there was a way for people like OP to see for themselves how "fair" and "balanced" some suggestions are. Like some alternate reality server, in which every wish is granted..

Seriously though, the only thing I can get behind would be introducing T11 (i.e. T9s and T10s) and T12 (T10 only) on top of the existing MM. 

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10 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

...and so T3 T6 and T9 are always top tier?... did you, like, even think for half a second before posting that? doesnt look like it...

 

He does not seem very smart... :Smile_facepalm:

 

Basicly, this is the "aging game" problem, more and more players are reaching tier 10, including the 40% subplayers, so why would they play low tiers, when they could always be top tier?

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