Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
albinbino

Proposal to make Random battles better by increasing performance interest!

18 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[JRM]
Players
657 posts
10,505 battles

How to make players to approach Random battles more seriously and with bigger interest to win?

 

We witnessed several  attempts and changes by WG so far to come up with adequate battle economy for ships in post battle repair costs and income, but in same time

not to compromise players playing styles in the battle too much, and as a conclusion i would say this has not been completely successful, since there are more options left to be explored.

Biggest problem is lack of caring by many players how well they do in battle, lack of their interest to do things in battle before they die.

 

I am referring to Random battles, it is really sad to see right on the start of battle, in opening minutes ships getting killed one by one, and most caused by irrational moves.

In the past this was more common in lower tier battles, but now it is very present in high tiers as well. It is very defeating to see several ships dying so fast in battle, as it has usually from one team,

and then you who is remaining and trying to win are supposed to save that battle, which is 90% impossible.

 

I will come out here totally honest and say that even I was struggling to find proper interest in continuation of Random battles after playing month long Ranked, but due to competitive drive i manage, many do, but also many don't and never have had it.

 

As solution my proposal for WG is to increase ship repair costs after the battle, but in same time to increase battle incomes. This would not hurt WG economy, because overall profit that players make would be still the same, but in the same time it would: stimulate players to do well in battle, not do die carelessly in opening minutes, to fight viscously until their last HP left, penalize AFK, force players to improve and most importantly it would make Random battles more combat spirited.

 

In case this is implemented, than as side effect for risks and dangers that come for DDs players who are aiming to cap, and also higher presence of radars, i would propose capping to be rewarded more, as compensation for high costs battles and risks they take, just idea but not critically nessecary.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[YARRR]
Beta Tester
6,696 posts
13,135 battles

So basically you want people to farm damage and avoid playing the objective or sacrificing themselves for the win.

That's different from the current economy how exactly?

 

The problem is that the economy rewards bad behavior and often actually punishes game winning plays. And because this caters to the lowest possible denominator WG will not change that as rewarding objective and team based play instead of damage farming would instantly bankrupt 90% of the playerbase.

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[_MIA_]
Players
2,902 posts
5,350 battles

I 100% agree that people need to learn to play better. What ive whitnessed today again... im this close to deinstall for good (last time i took a couple of months break)

 

But ppl need to be rewarded to play their class. Currently everyone is only after farming damage. So im not sure if tinkering with the credits is the right way of doing it. Might only make ppl camp more so they survive longer. And 2nd, i dont even know if ppl understand when they are losing Credits or not. They see first after battle result and it shows : Credits xxx.xxx in big number. Reality is, you most likely lost credits when playing hightier.

Maybe it should show right away whether you earned/lost credits.

 

F.e. the DDs had in 3 T10 games today... its just horrible

- First entered cap, smoked up, died to radar. 2nd DD same match did the same thing later on, while he capped at first, he then went to the map border uselessly to torp one BB which was already engaged by 4! of ours. Meanwhile 2 Radar cruisers were sitting on I9...

- 2nd match first DD entered cap, died in smoke. 2nd DD went to cap, got dropped by TBs while smoking up. Died later on because he still was sitting in the cap even after it was capped.

- 3rd match takes the cake: We agree to help at C on Hotspot. DD goes behind island and ontop of that, smokes himself up. Sat there for like 3 mins while enemies were basicly undetected all the time. I saw no option then to move in with my GK to make him move. He then did move infront of me, only to smoke up again and at the same time taking my vision and his own ofc. Here 2 other T10 BBs were humping the corner at I8-9 also, totaly uselessly, closest enemy was 20km away.

 

At this point, im up for ANYTHING to make players do appropriate stuff ingame.

DDs -> spotting

BBs -> Tanking

Cruiser -> supporting (killing planes, spotting torps, damage dealing)

CVs -> Spotting

(thats what they SHOULD do in order to get better rewards)

Most of those arent rewarded at all. Its only damage,damage,damage. Noone plays for the win, because if you spot as a DD, your team gets to do the damage (thats if they are willing to shoot in the first place, sometimes you have ppl who are just not shooting ?!) So naturally, DDs want to deal damage aswell.

Also "some" (more like most) ppl are just like "[edited]you, im going in" to throw the game to deal more damage. Probably they dont realize that its costing the game, because they want to deal couple of k damage. They usually dont achieve more because they get focused so heavily.  This goes hand in hand with not understanding

- Time

- Points

- Caps (objectives in general)

 

Maybe you should just earn nothing in a defeat, so ppl would care to win. Maybe leave credits, but remove XP. Also it would be better that ppl spend more time (ye right, im dreaming again) to l2p because they have to spent more time at a certain ship to move on.
Ofc WG doesnt want that ppl have to spend more time grinding, they want that everyone is playing T10 so you have to buy Premium Acc/perma Camos/Premium ships so you can afford playing T10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
Players
657 posts
10,505 battles
30 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Maybe you should just earn nothing in a defeat

Well i had the second proposal but i did not present it, that is to reward wining team with more credits, similar what they do with XP, this would increase competitive play drastically, but it could lead to higher toxicity, which i don't mind, but WG does. Anyway all i am proposing to make Random battles more engaging for players by giving them some extra goals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
3,668 posts
12,833 battles

I'd say:

 

  • no higher repair cost, as that will only lead to more border humping and island clinging
  • no higher income, as what is given is quite enough imho. If you think it's to low, go play some mid tier battles for the mone
  • Exp only for a win and not for damage, but for "doing your effing job" - so yeah, IF doing damage is "your job" then there should be a reward for it...

But all this is moot, as WG will do what they deem best and what we discuss here is of no interest for them....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HF_30]
Players
1,288 posts

I'd say BBs need a nerf to damage XP, a slight buff to damage taken XP and a giant buff to capping XP. Cruisers seem about right. DDs need better XP for spotting damage (or a rework of the mechanic to somehow include damage done to a target after it began to shoot back, maybe some sort of time window), a bit better capping XP and probably a slight nerf to damage XP. Well, if you actually wanted to offer better incentives for more dynamic play... quite sure it's not on WG's agenda tho, since that wouldn't appeal to the plethora of people sailing around drunk as a sailor while watching gentlemen's special interest entertainment on the second screen.

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,869 posts
5,153 battles
22 minutes ago, tenacious_torps said:

I'd say BBs need a nerf to damage XP, a slight buff to damage taken XP and a giant buff to capping XP. Cruisers seem about right. DDs need better XP for spotting damage (or a rework of the mechanic to somehow include damage done to a target after it began to shoot back, maybe some sort of time window), a bit better capping XP and probably a slight nerf to damage XP. Well, if you actually wanted to offer better incentives for more dynamic play... quite sure it's not on WG's agenda tho, since that wouldn't appeal to the plethora of people sailing around drunk as a sailor while watching gentlemen's special interest entertainment on the second screen.

 

It would be nice, if we would exactly know how we get rewarded for what in the first place. But, I remember a Q&A stream, where WG said, this is not going to happen, because - get this - players would abuse the XP-System, if they knew how it works. :cap_fainting:So yea, god forbid people playing good and getting rewards for that. Cant let that happen.

 

About "Making randoms better": At this point, im willing to propose a vote-kick. Kick them right out of the middle of the round. Signals gone, camo gone, repair costs have to be paied but ofc 0 XP & 0 income. :Smile_trollface:Maybe then people will learn, if CVs with 20% WR, DDs with 30% WR and borderhugging BBs will constantly be kicked out of the game. And before someone argues with me about, how bad this would be: its obvious my salt from the last days speaking, so bear with me. :Smile_hiding:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PK11]
Beta Tester
425 posts
9,225 battles

What OP mentions is for me currently the biggest issue with the game. We can argue about black camouflages or sluggish port interface all day long but if the majority of the battles become uninteresting or boring then everything else does not really matter anymore.

I play this game for fun but started to observe that more than halve the battles I get placed in are utterly boring. The OP mentioned the symptoms of a boring battle already. Just to add: a roflstomp does not satisfy me even when being on the winning team. What good is a victory if the other team did not show up?

There seem to be quite a few other players feeling the same frustration. I feel all the discussions about skill based match making originate from this unsatisfying gameplay experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DAVY]
[DAVY]
Players
1,042 posts
4,580 battles
11 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

It would be nice, if we would exactly know how we get rewarded for what in the first place. But, I remember a Q&A stream, where WG said, this is not going to happen, because - get this - players would abuse the XP-System, if they knew how it works. :cap_fainting:So yea, god forbid people playing good and getting rewards for that. Cant let that happen.

 

About "Making randoms better": At this point, im willing to propose a vote-kick. Kick them right out of the middle of the round. Signals gone, camo gone, repair costs have to be paied but ofc 0 XP & 0 income. :Smile_trollface:Maybe then people will learn, if CVs with 20% WR, DDs with 30% WR and borderhugging BBs will constantly be kicked out of the game. And before someone argues with me about, how bad this would be: its obvious my salt from the last days speaking, so bear with me. :Smile_hiding:

I agree... really.. the last days..

something is wrong.. or I must say, more wrong than the usual..

 

I support your vote kick idea.. but with a slight difference..

 

In the end.. ask the top half of the team to cast a vote on the player who though is a complete glue sniffer in their own team..

Give players 10 votes per day.. no more..

The player who gets the most votes.. becomes the Gluesniffer of the team for that match.

 

then when a player gets an average gluesniffer award for >0.5 per battle.. after 100 battles..

Paint them Green! and show the rest of the team his/her status.. for another 100 Battles.

 

If they continue to collect awards like greengrass... just put them in co-op for 100 battles.. or block the ships they get most votes in..

something like that..

 

Because vote kicking during the battle.. will be a harsh penalty for some people.. anyone can have a brainfart moment time to time.. and it will not do good for the teams both in short or long period..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,869 posts
5,153 battles
2 hours ago, Excavatus said:

I agree... really.. the last days..

something is wrong.. or I must say, more wrong than the usual.. 

 

I know! And its on all tiers, no matter what I play. Im even reading players from the other team going nuts, because their team is playing abysmal. Which I can confirm - the round, that I won, I should have never won either, if the enemys would have been halfway competent.

 

2 hours ago, Excavatus said:

In the end.. ask the top half of the team to cast a vote on the player who though is a complete glue sniffer in their own team..

Give players 10 votes per day.. no more..

The player who gets the most votes.. becomes the Gluesniffer of the team for that match.

 

then when a player gets an average gluesniffer award for >0.5 per battle.. after 100 battles..

Paint them Green! and show the rest of the team his/her status.. for another 100 Battles.

 

If they continue to collect awards like greengrass... just put them in co-op for 100 battles.. or block the ships they get most votes in..

something like that..

 

Because vote kicking during the battle.. will be a harsh penalty for some people.. anyone can have a brainfart moment time to time.. and it will not do good for the teams both in short or long period..

 

Thats actually a pretty neat idea. I just feel that those people need some kind of serious, somewhat neutral but strong feedback, that the latest loss is actually (partly) their fault. The guy, that made me post about this vote-kick, was a Gearing from my yesterday game on Hotspot. He first asked for support on C, to which I replied, that we (Salem & Kurfürst) are going to back him up. So far so good. He actually went straight into the cap, smoking himself up right away. My divi-mate was already pissed by that. I was like "yea its not ideal, but not the end of the day yet". When I cap C on Hotspot as a DD, I never smoke up, since there are tons of island doing the job. They even protect you from fire if you get radared. Not to mention torps. But ok. So we get C and.... thats it. The DD shoots from his smoke, whenever he sees something. After his smoke is down, he hides at an island. Then comes out again, smokes, dakka-dakka. In the very few moments, that we see something, its clear, a Des Moines is headding in to radar. I mean: why wouldnt he? he is undetected so he gets closer and closer. The rest of our team has already abandonden behind the islands on C (which is always bad, especially when the enemys have A and B) and now im trying to communicate with that guy. Im telling him: we need spot. And that we need to move to B to help our guys on A and that he will be radared soon because the DM knows EXACTLY his position, since he is giving it away for free with his smoke & shooting. Nothing. No reaction, no change in behavoir. Im tanking most of the damage on C, a Neptune has nothing better to shoot at me and im getting occasional shots from a Montana (with HE from somewhere at the 10 line - so much for "something is wrong with both teams the last days...) and a Monarch, that keeps sailing broadside up & down behind C. So, the DM does infact get into radar range to the Gearing, lights him up, and that guy runs in panic out of the cap. He runs towards B, seems enemys again, smokes up again. Im just starting shooting at the Atago, that has reached the small island in B - everything goes dark again. There he gets radared again from Cleveland / Baltimore and dies. On the screenshot its painfully obvious, how stealthy the enemy team is. Execpt for the Yamato, we know nothing about the positions of the enemys. This is 6:30 into the game and the Gearing is sitting at that exact same point for ~3 mins. He should have scouted and used his torps. I havent seen him lauch a single set of torps - what a mistake as a Gearing. The game is over at the 10 min mark, because we start losing ships like crazy.

 

shot-18_10.17_20_29.09-0785.thumb.jpg.3516ae30a41ef773d836b418f0898fd3.jpg

 

Anyway - after the game im trying to engage him through pm. I checked his stats and saw 36% WR in Gearing. Im inviting him to our division so that he can hear from 2 persons, what he did wrong. he is not interested. Instead, he flames us. He calls us "maxrangecampers". And that we achieved nothing. How can you make these people understand, that its THEM. He didnt even understood, where we were? He called a BB, that was literally bumping into him at one point - a max range camper? This is most frustrating thing for me about this game. Players play bad but THINK they are good. They get somewhat decent XP, they blame their losses on their teams - the usualy excuse - and continue doing this.

 

95293946_NeueBitmap.jpg.f7d87d788d7195d4094d4f9eba0b09e9.jpg

 

6 hours ago, Donnerturm said:

I feel all the discussions about skill based match making originate from this unsatisfying gameplay experience. 

 

Absolutly. Im not in favor of skillbased-MM but I can understand, where the people, that want this, are coming from. Im just very very tired of having to play with people like this over and over again. Often, the argument is used that "you wouldnt win as much as you do now, when there is skillbased-mm since the enemys are better also and you profit from stupid players that way". True. But that doesnt matter to me. What matters is, how exciting and tense each round is. If everyone on my side is playing good, trying everything and the enemys are simply better - gg wp, hats of to you! But if I lose a game, because my DD doesnt spot, activly covers the enemy cruisers with his own smoke (which he doesnt understand, even when you tell him), or you last player engages & starts shooting his guns while you have 60 sec to play and have a lead of 700:400 points (list goes on...), then something needs to be done. These players need to get a feedback "Dude, THAT was wrong".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[R_N_G]
Players
19 posts
22 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

I 100% agree that people need to learn to play better.

 

Maybe you should just earn nothing in a defeat, so ppl would care to win. Maybe leave credits, but remove XP.

 

This.

Absolutely.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DAVY]
Players
371 posts
5,074 battles

Right, I too share some of these feelings. However, wargaming will never make their free to play game "punishing" it is counter to its business model and server health in general. 

 

That said I do believe improvements can and should be made. I think the most frustrating games, nearly all forum members have experienced are the ones where you take two caps, the game is all but won. Your team mates however have other ideas, charging the enemy that are all clumped up on 1 point 1 at a time feeding them the win. 

 

I think a better display that shows very clearly, possibly with flashing lights and sirens what is actually happening in terms of points, caps and game outcome would be very useful for a lot of players that need 99% of their brain power to shoot straight and not hit islands. Getting these players tactically aware would improve the general standard of play no end.

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
3,695 posts
10,594 battles
On 10/17/2018 at 8:17 PM, albinbino said:

stimulate players to do well in battle, not do die carelessly in opening minutes

"OMG if I die too early, I'll lose money. Better go camp even harder, that will help me break even."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
Players
657 posts
10,505 battles
12 hours ago, eliastion said:

"OMG if I die too early, I'll lose money. Better go camp even harder, that will help me break even."

No. I dont think this will happen because they will be losing credits a lot. Because during the battle i notice those who play extra defensively and pretty much being useless for the team, and every time i check their stats after battle. Especially i check damage they do in that ship they played, and every time it is too low. That is why i stay with proposal, in one package to increase costs and incomes, profit would be the same, but that is why punishment for carelessness and low engagement would be greater.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
3,695 posts
10,594 battles
5 hours ago, albinbino said:

No. I dont think this will happen because they will be losing credits a lot. Because during the battle i notice those who play extra defensively and pretty much being useless for the team, and every time i check their stats after battle. Especially i check damage they do in that ship they played, and every time it is too low. That is why i stay with proposal, in one package to increase costs and incomes, profit would be the same, but that is why punishment for carelessness and low engagement would be greater.

If people realize what gets them the greatest gain and strive for that - there's no meaning in your change because all it would do is punish people who got unlucky.

If people don't realize what gets them the best rewards - then your change would change nothing or make them camp even harder.

 

Your change might be economically beneficial to the decent players (who, btw, don't really struggle in the current economy anyway) but it wouldn't positively influence the game environment because the only people who would get incentivized to perform well are the very same people that already try to do just that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[_MIA_]
Players
2,902 posts
5,350 battles
19 hours ago, Thracen said:

That said I do believe improvements can and should be made. I think the most frustrating games, nearly all forum members have experienced are the ones where you take two caps, the game is all but won. Your team mates however have other ideas, charging the enemy that are all clumped up on 1 point 1 at a time feeding them the win. 

 

I think a better display that shows very clearly, possibly with flashing lights and sirens what is actually happening in terms of points, caps and game outcome would be very useful for a lot of players that need 99% of their brain power to shoot straight and not hit islands. Getting these players tactically aware would improve the general standard of play no end.

 

 

First you would need to get it into their heads that they are responsible for the outcome of the match. And i believe many players dont accnowledge that its their own fault when they have a bad WR - they just blame their teams for that.

Maybe the new Halloween PvP mode could be a nice change: only killing stuff without any objectives. Just enough for those glue eaters to handle :Smile_trollface:

Clearly, Arms Race didnt work (imo) because it was once again too hard to understand to play for the objectives for the average player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
1,872 posts

You guys seem to believe this game has a fighting chance to be what it once was.

Good luck convincing WG to force steeper learning curve, slower tier progression, or xp system relevant to class specific objectives...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BLOBS]
Beta Tester
5,052 posts
9,616 battles
On 10/17/2018 at 8:44 PM, DFens_666 said:

I 100% agree that people need to learn to play better. What ive whitnessed today again... im this close to deinstall for good (last time i took a couple of months break)

 

But ppl need to be rewarded to play their class. Currently everyone is only after farming damage. So im not sure if tinkering with the credits is the right way of doing it. Might only make ppl camp more so they survive longer. And 2nd, i dont even know if ppl understand when they are losing Credits or not. They see first after battle result and it shows : Credits xxx.xxx in big number. Reality is, you most likely lost credits when playing hightier.

Maybe it should show right away whether you earned/lost credits.

 

F.e. the DDs had in 3 T10 games today... its just horrible

- First entered cap, smoked up, died to radar. 2nd DD same match did the same thing later on, while he capped at first, he then went to the map border uselessly to torp one BB which was already engaged by 4! of ours. Meanwhile 2 Radar cruisers were sitting on I9...

- 2nd match first DD entered cap, died in smoke. 2nd DD went to cap, got dropped by TBs while smoking up. Died later on because he still was sitting in the cap even after it was capped.

- 3rd match takes the cake: We agree to help at C on Hotspot. DD goes behind island and ontop of that, smokes himself up. Sat there for like 3 mins while enemies were basicly undetected all the time. I saw no option then to move in with my GK to make him move. He then did move infront of me, only to smoke up again and at the same time taking my vision and his own ofc. Here 2 other T10 BBs were humping the corner at I8-9 also, totaly uselessly, closest enemy was 20km away.

 

At this point, im up for ANYTHING to make players do appropriate stuff ingame.

DDs -> spotting

BBs -> Tanking

Cruiser -> supporting (killing planes, spotting torps, damage dealing)

CVs -> Spotting

(thats what they SHOULD do in order to get better rewards)

Most of those arent rewarded at all. Its only damage,damage,damage. Noone plays for the win, because if you spot as a DD, your team gets to do the damage (thats if they are willing to shoot in the first place, sometimes you have ppl who are just not shooting ?!) So naturally, DDs want to deal damage aswell.

Also "some" (more like most) ppl are just like "[edited]you, im going in" to throw the game to deal more damage. Probably they dont realize that its costing the game, because they want to deal couple of k damage. They usually dont achieve more because they get focused so heavily.  This goes hand in hand with not understanding

- Time

- Points

- Caps (objectives in general)

 

Maybe you should just earn nothing in a defeat, so ppl would care to win. Maybe leave credits, but remove XP. Also it would be better that ppl spend more time (ye right, im dreaming again) to l2p because they have to spent more time at a certain ship to move on.
Ofc WG doesnt want that ppl have to spend more time grinding, they want that everyone is playing T10 so you have to buy Premium Acc/perma Camos/Premium ships so you can afford playing T10.

To get decent play you 1st needs ships that can do their job.

 

No Radarrage that isnt at least 2 km worse than detection range of the Radar platform. Using Terain to get in range fine. being in open water and clicking a botom the second you see the Im detected icon NOT fine.

 

Any BBs at least +2-4 km to detection (by lowering the % of the stealth skill for BBs,or cap stealth at 14-15km for BBs)

 

Making caps big enogh so that stealthy DDs can actually contest the cap wothout being in detection range,

 

How about stop creating "can do it on their own" ships. BBs with sonars started that crap CL DD hunter with radar range greater than detection and sonar came next and if the WIP RN DDs are an indicator spring start+over 200 sek sonar+semi ap shells+high fire chance+ efectively max 20 sek between smokes (smoke on demand)+heal+singlefire torps............just missing a ru radarrange to top it off with americanX2 duration........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×