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lovelacebeer

Picking caps in Domination battles

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I have often found in high tier domination matches that when the team suggest going to caps A and B, or B and C for some reason the team never follow through on what is said in chat, I understand that should your team find the opposition are all lemming training towards 1 cap then its better not to just go right at them but why do people agree to go to the cap near them only to from the moment the battle starts go in the opposite direction, and more importantly other than suggesting "A and B?" how do other people here encourage their team to follow through on a plan without having to resort to extreme levels of salt in chat?

 

I provide an example below where the team was still discussing where caps to go too but in both the flanks the battleships are heading towards the middle, in fact in this battle all 4 crossed over and stayed at the back of the map the whole battle but this problem isn't exclusive to battleship players, I'm just using this as an example 

 

So how do other people encourage their team to pick a strategy or is this just the way some people are and have to accept it?

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  • Please make screenshots with your computer, not your phone/camera
  • I rarely see 12 people agree on a strategy, usually some agree, the others not; that are the ones sailing in a different direction
  • Suggesting a strategy is the only thing you can do
  • depending on reaction, you either follow that strategy or adapt a new one
  • it is easier to follow/adapt/support the strategy of the majority as to make the majority follow your strategy, but someone has to suggest a stratgey or it takes a long time to find out what the majority wants

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On average, people have a limited understanding of strategy.

That goes for people that don't go to places they should go, but also for people who call for others to go for places they shouldn't.

 

Not really much you can do other than hoping the randoms on your team are capable of breathing and thinking at the same time.

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4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

it is easier to follow/adapt/support the strategy of the majority as to make the majority follow your strategy, but someone has to suggest a stratgey or it takes a long time to find out what the majority wants

Yes I guess its just the nature of the beast you cant decide who your teammates are so better to suggest and just respond as the situation unfolds no point asking for miracles 

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32 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

I provide an example below where the team was still discussing where caps to go too but in both the flanks the battleships are heading towards the middle, in fact in this battle all 4 crossed over and stayed at the back of the map the whole battle but this problem isn't exclusive to battleship players, I'm just using this as an example

 

Because they can "go" somewhere while still being totaly useless. You see those players all the time. They go to the opposite side from their spawn, so they can "play" the game mostly unharmed. If they encounter enemies there (even when being in superior force) they still turn around running again to the other side.

 

34 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

for some reason the team never follow through on what is said in chat

It feels the "I show you"-mentatility is pretty high in this game. If you ask them to do something, they usually do the opposite.

 

 

This is our playerbase :cap_old:

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In my opinion this AB or BC is the wrong idea to begin with as it usually leaves one of your flanks and therefore later yourself exposed to crossfire. Maybe that's why some players ignore such suggestions.

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3 minutes ago, Donnerturm said:

In my opinion this AB or BC is the wrong idea to begin with as it usually leaves one of your flanks and therefore later yourself exposed to crossfire. Maybe that's why some players ignore such suggestions.

Depends on map and spawn.

But no army in the history of man has ever attacked all enemies at once. All military leaders prioritize strategic objectives and try to generate local superiority. If done right, even an smaller army will have local superiority in numbers.

 

You focus caps to get that number superiority. A force that splits all over risks that some ships do nothing, because they face no enemy, making the superiority of the enemy even bigger. The enemy cannot flank you when he loses his other flank.

If you cannot win against inferior numbers, it does not matter if the enemy flanks you, you would have lost anyway.

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The other thing to point out that by a team going for all three caps (in the OPs example) it means that if there is a single CV there is less chance of having plane coverage on the caps when you need it.

 

I've been in games where the concencus seems to be for instance again using the OP's example to go to B&C yet there are BBs or a CA that decides to go to A and then demands support once they are there and find a number of enemy ships at the cap and then calls the rest of the team potatoes for not following them.  I understand players may not understand English but seeing B&C in chat should indicate that those may be the caps that the team is going to go for - even looking at the mini map should reveal that going to A is to be lonely (I've found that at times when I go ahead in a BB that the team behind me have all run off).

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In matches with CV's I always think its better to use safety in numbers its too much to ask the friendly CV to defend 3 caps simultaneously but also better to share AA

2 hours ago, BrusilovX said:

I've been in games where the concencus seems to be for instance again using the OP's example to go to B&C yet there are BBs or a CA that decides to go to A and then demands support once they are there and find a number of enemy ships at the cap and then calls the rest of the team potatoes for not following them.

this is an extremely frustrating problem where people remain silent when agreeing what caps to focus but then complain like hell when they are being wiped out. 

 

In battles without a CV I still prefer to have a team concentrate its firepower on 2 caps yes it always runs the risk of becoming a lemming train where everyone seems to want to hide behind the same island but over all there is more chance of at least killing more of the opposition and then winning the numbers game. The one ship I would consider blocking off the uncontested cap would be in a stealthy DD such as a Japanese or Pan Asian, even if you cant take the cap provided your good enough at being careful you can delay or possibly deny the cap entirely.

 

Ultimately the main issue is cooperation that mythical beast of MMOs some teams can come together communicate and work, other teams remain totally silent until they die then they cant stop complaining (ie ranked battles)

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Just a reminder: just because someone is the first one to write "A + B" (or anything like that...) in the chat, this doesn't make him

 

  • the leader of the team
  • competent
  • a tactician
  • the owner of an at least average IQ
  • ...

Just because a "tactic" is stated in chat it doesn't mean it offers any chance of success.

 

On most domination battles the only thing in chat that offers a marginal chance of success is:

 

"Go to where the DDs go, but never eat the yellow snow!"

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2 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

Just a reminder: just because someone is the first one to write "A + B" (or anything like that...) in the chat, this doesn't make him

 

  • the leader of the team
  • competent
  • a tactician
  • the owner of an at least average IQ
  • ...

Just because a "tactic" is stated in chat it doesn't mean it offers any chance of success.

 

If someone types A&B then at least it starts a dialogue - other players (even non English speakers) can suggest other caps just by suggesting other combinations.  No, I don't propose a 5 minute (or longer) debate at the start of a game - players can usually change direction if they've started to go to the 'wrong cap'.

 

At least then there is a chance, however small, that the team can have a small amount of co-ordination.

 

I agree that it's best to support the DDs and where they go.

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4 hours ago, lovelacebeer said:

...So how do other people encourage their team to pick a strategy...

hiding.png

It looks to me like the BBs have picked the most popular strategy.

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18 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

....Just because a "tactic" is stated in chat it doesn't mean it offers any chance of success....

But the poster shows a lot more initiative and motivation than all the others who stay silent and, in worse case, ingnore all attemps at coordination.

 

And a team coordinating on a less than optimal tactic is still tacticly superior than a team where everybody does what he wants all over the map.

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irrelevant to the thread:

Snipping Tool.
Included in all windows after Windows 7.
Works better than phone photos

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46 minutes ago, Ouzo11 said:

irrelevant to the thread:

Snipping Tool.
Included in all windows after Windows 7.
Works better than phone photos

Normally I would use the snipping tool but was in a hurry so just did it with the phone as it was on the desk but yeh they quality suffers as a result 

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it doesn't matter.  99% of the games i play BB drivers wont push up and the enemy does. we don't get a single cap and lose. lather, rinse, repeat.  Game needs a meta change and fast.

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Vor 9 Stunden, ColonelPete sagte:

Depends on map and spawn.

But no army in the history of man has ever attacked all enemies at once. All military leaders prioritize strategic objectives and try to generate local superiority. If done right, even an smaller army will have local superiority in numbers.

 

You focus caps to get that number superiority. A force that splits all over risks that some ships do nothing, because they face no enemy, making the superiority of the enemy even bigger. The enemy cannot flank you when he loses his other flank.

If you cannot win against inferior numbers, it does not matter if the enemy flanks you, you would have lost anyway.

Are you playing the same game as I am? World of Warships?

If you leave one flank entirely open while enemy deploys his ships evenly and then uses smart (yes, I know) delay tactics on his weak side, you will end up in a crossfire more often than not.

 

For the sake of the topic: Since we seem to disagree already on such basic tactical ideas it seems to prove my point that this might be a reason why not everybody can agree on a common strategy at the beginning. An answer to the OPs question.

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36 minutes ago, Donnerturm said:

Are you playing the same game as I am? World of Warships?

If you leave one flank entirely open while enemy deploys his ships evenly and then uses smart (yes, I know) delay tactics on his weak side, you will end up in a crossfire more often than not.

As I said, when inferior enemy numbers can take care of your teams superior numbers, splitting up more and removing your numbers advantage will not help you in battle. The better players win. They will just rip you apart on all fronts equally.

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You must be aware that most BBs are sub sentient, and only achieve sentience when clustered in groups of 4 or so. This is why they seem to cluster together and then start whining about people ignoring the cap they have achieved sentience next to. You know this is true, I have observed it in hundreds of games. 

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Weel brother @lovelacebeer, it really depends on the map and situation (where the others are actually going) and so forth. I'm playing Cruisers nowadays for the most part. My chosen role is DD support, so what I usually do is to pick a nearby DD to follow, then go to whichever cap she is heading to (5km behind so I don't get spotted prematurely). Simple as that but of course I do keep an eye on those pesky BB's and if they suddenly abandon the flank and leave us all by our lonesome then it's perhaps time to reconsider. Warn the DD that we are alone and if strong enemies are spotted, hightail it outta there as quickly as possible. In some occasions I will try to go for a cap myself, if it seems there is no opposition (this is rare tho) or continue anyway, if it seems that there opposition is light or just equal to us. Well for the ost part anyways, but there are times when going for a delaying action is the best choice just to keep the opponent from flanking the rest of the team. There is no single concept that always works, but one must adapt to the situation and hope for the best. :cap_old:

 

But MOST IMPORTANTLY NEVER TRUST WHAT THEY SAY IN CHAT without checking yourself, keep an eye on the minimap and see for yourself where the rest of the team is REEAALLY going, then adjust your gameplan accordingly. Blindly doing what someone tells you to in chat will likely get you insta killed soon enough. After all it's not their own ship they are sacrificing by trying to send you out on a suicide mission. And in any case always remember YOU DO NOT HAVE TO VOLUNTEER FOR IT, so make your own decisions just like everyone else. There may be some complaining or karma loss as a result, but it is better to have a good game than get insta-blapped just because you went to some cap on someone else's say-so all by your lonesome and got slaughtered on the spot.:Smile_Default:

 

This is very much a team game, but that does not mean you should sacrifice yourself just to prove your loyalty or some such bullcrap. Keep in mind that you will always be worth more to your team while still alive and fighting rather than stone cold dead. Play accordingly and try to delay the dying-bit as long as possible, then do some damage (after all it is generally rather hard, although not all together impossible, to do any damage whilst already dead). :Smile_glasses:

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