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MrConway

Halloween - Terror of the Deep

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Captains,

 

Please leave any feedback regarding the new "Terror of the Deep" Halloween mode here.

 

We are particularly interested in what you think of the submarine mechanics! :cat_cool:

 

Please note: The mode will only be available October 31st!

 

 

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I very much like this submarine mechanics. Very interesting and I would like to see them in normal battles too.

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The controls for diving and surfacing are a lot easier than they were on the PTS and that was a good move, also visually it is very pretty to look around underwater. The only slightly frustrating thing to deal with is when someone fires their torpedos behind you, when your at periscope depth and then the alarm goes off, it is rather distracting as I'm never sure whether I should crash dive or I'm safe to ignore them.

 

Honestly I don't wish to be rude as I'm sure you guys went to a lot of effort on this mode but personally I found it rather boring, usually I enjoy the scenario and Halloween battles but this one just isn't for me. Still there a lot of people appear to be raving about it and whilst for the life of me I cannot understand why, I think at the very least you can consider this a successful style of operation, just maybe one I won't partake in. 

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On 10/17/2018 at 10:31 AM, MrConway said:

We are particularly interested in what you think of the submarine mechanics! :cat_cool:

 

Finally you unlocked the thread...

tumblr_oy2u3fUX4C1wzvt9qo1_1280.gif

 

So again, I'm forced to quote myself from another thread...

 

On 10/31/2018 at 11:23 PM, AnEvilJoke said:

I actually enjoy the Submarine gameplay, specially the Zipper and Sealion, but bringing them to the normal game - Hell NO!

 

1. You need yet another total overhaul of Captain skills.

2. The already fragile balance of classes would be destroyed.

3. The game would become even more campier as it already is.

 

You're welcome.

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Terror of the Deep or Halloween scenario don't work after 3:30 am Cet time? Isn't Halloween a night fest? Servers are scared...? :Smile_veryhappy:

 

Played 3 battles then at that time couldn't play anymore... see screen:

2018-11-02_03h40_55.thumb.jpg.d957124866d51404bc00d6c31f7d0d53.jpg

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Liked a lot. Possibly most of all seasonal events. Even more than space event. The subs were well designed and unique. The mode was easy and fun and fast to queue. 

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Finding the subs fun but a bit repetitive if they were in game it might be different with the need for more strategy, also need to be able to fire deck guns manually when forced to surface. It might be nice to not loose oxygen at the same rate when at periscope depth as opposed to fully submerged. 

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Hello there

 

I would like to give some feedback for submarines and their mechanics right now that I've noticed. Some things will maybe be intentional, but I will mention them nonetheless. 

 

1. Secondary armament (guns) on Zipper sub and Barracuda don't turn when firing, and I do think that they can fire behind them which shouldn't be possible because of the conning tower.

2. Submerge animation is not that good. Currently, it looks like the submarine just drops into water instead of submerging slowly (in several seconds, give or take) and going bow first.

3. Leveling out in the water is also too fast, it goes from 10 or 15 degrees to horizontal very fast. It would be better to level it out a bit more slowly, to simulate movement in water.

4. Surfacing the boat always brings zoomed out camera, which is annoying. It would be better if surface camera zoom (example is one zoom before periscope) would be the same as in submerged mode.

5. Aiming is not that difficult with that lead line. This defeats the purpose of knowing where to shoot, lead the target and calculate gyro angle. Maybe this could be avoided and not done away entirely, but right now it is a bit too easy. More testing and playing should be done for this as of now. 

6. That being said if leading the target becomes more difficult, initial torpedo spread should be much larger (60-120 degrees) like it is in submarines. Most submarines could fire accurately 45 degrees on each side from bow (315 to 45) and stern (135-225) which should avoid going left and right. Submarine should carefully maneouvar into position, fire and get out before anyone knows it was there.

 

SUGGESTIONS

- Implement a mechanic where submarine can travel at 1/4 speed below 100 m and reduce it's visibility to 1 km. This would represent silent running below the thermal layer but greatly reduce speed and could be used for most extreme stealth situations.

- Special game mode or scenario battle called "Hunters & Prey" where one team is in submarines and another is in destroyers of same rank. Destroyers mission is to escort AI merchant ships trough the map and submarines mission is to damage most or all convoy ships. 

 

Question: is there a option to start zoomed in, as in conning tower zoom which looks like you're on the bridge?

 

That's all from me now, will give more feedback if anything comes to mind.

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Thinking about certain issues and visiting other pages, I have found several things that should also be put out there for review. I will name them in the section below.

 

UI SUGGESTIONS

20 hours ago, lovelacebeer said:

The only slightly frustrating thing to deal with is when someone fires their torpedos behind you, when your at periscope depth and then the alarm goes off, it is rather distracting as I'm never sure whether I should crash dive or I'm safe to ignore them.

The torpedo alarm warning is indeed very distracting and shouldn't be present when submerged. Submerged submarine can avoid torpedoes that run at standard depth (3 m - 10 ft) unless they hit the conning tower. Because of this no damage should be done by torpedoes while you are submerged. This may be harder to implement, so I don't know what else to say here. Other UI suggestions are stated below.

1. Dive time to periscope depth should and oxygen supply time be under shown in port, preferably in manoeuvrability section.
2. Placement of depth and oxygen meter next to engine telegraph so it won't be in the middle of view.
3. Emergency blow should have a sound accompanying it so the player know when it's hard surfacing.

4. Limited periscope view only at periscope depth instead of whole screen (essentially just a giant periscope mask for camera), but with ability to fully zoom artillery camera and return to normal on button press.
5. Group torpedoes into only forward torpedo tubes (4 or 6 torpedoes) and aft torpedo tubes (2 or 4 torpedoes) that reload independently. 

 

GAMEPLAY SUGGESTIONS

3 hours ago, sneakyscotsman said:

It might be nice to not loose oxygen at the same rate when at periscope depth as opposed to fully submerged. 

That depends on which submarine has a snorkel. Those that have it could do this, but those without should lose it the same rate. Snorkel was used on German submarines as far as I know, so make that a thing if it will be available into the game. Some suggestions for gameplay are listed below.

1. The speed of submarines while submerged should be far less that on the surface (varying from submarine to submarine), unless it's German type XXI class which could go faster underwater.

2. If submarines are slower underwater their oxygen supply should be extended (adjusted for the game, of course) as to correspond to times that oxygen supply lasted in real occasions.

3. The question I have is will sinking ships affect submarine when they are sinking and the submarine is passing beneath it? As in, weather you can sink if a ship goes down on your boat?

4. Interesting thing I read on another thread is use of batteries instead of oxygen supply. Batteries could only be recharged on the surface so it could make game balance a bit better.

 

Just a couple of suggestions next to my previous ones. And now I have to present my own tech tree for submarines, which could become useful guideline if they do make it into the game. I do, however, have to say that this tech tree is purely something that I thought of and is not to be taken too seriously. This is all for now.

 

                   GERMANY         US

TIER IV         Type II         S-class

TIER V          Type II         V-class

TIER VI        Type VII      Porpoise

TIER VII       Type VII       Salmon

TIER VIII      Type IX         Sargo

TIER IX        Type IX          Gato

TIER X        Type XXI        Balao

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Fun to play with the subs. But WG please.... Don't put submarines into the random battles, ever! We'll just get a specialized class that can hardly be balanced, like the CV's are now.

And it would be nice if we could equip signals. Not as a flag, but maybe as a paint on the sub.

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So nice, really hope these will come to normal mode too. :cap_money:

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Really engoying Subs in this event, but i have some concerns

 

If they come to normal play. I would not allow them at levels before Aircraft Carryers and i would give aircraft carryers anti sub equipment Shuch as fighter droped depth charges and homing torpedos and sonar boys so as to prevent subs camping.

 

Another thing is I don't think all 5 levels of depth are needed unlless subbs get alot greater air cap as it is only the killer wale and the barcuda can realisticaly reach that depth. also going that deap has no benafite as all deptha below periscope deapth have the same detection range. personanly i thionk the deaper you go the more the detection range should shrink.... unless your apponant is using sonar where it sould make you MORE visable.

 

Fireing torpedos on the surface should be more like a normal shipo fireing with all available tubes being fired in a spread. makeing firing from a the surface an option as you would take longer to reload but fire a spred at your target.

Firing from perisope depth should change the torpedos into deapwater torpedos and should be able to hit subs at this deapth and the firing mechanick is fine as is.

 

Also a speacal training mishion for sub drivers should be made availbale as I have seen lots of player just drive into shiping without realising they could dive below it and avoid it.

 

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Those "things" don't belong in random battle. Don't be that stupid, WG. They have no place in there. And that event confirmed it better than ever.

Those subs are slow, fragile, with a terrible armament. It works against bot because they're both stupid and agressive. It won't ever work in big random battle with multiples objectives to hold, and the average player will stay waaaay out of range to any sub anyway. Those things would be beyond useless.

Any Shimakaze would do the job far better. Heck, I'd rather be in a Kamikaze R in tier 10 battle than in any sub. At least I got the speed and the torpedo angles

 

Anyone that played that event and still think sub deserves to come into random, seriously, learn to analyze things objectively. That event is a scripted map with things always going the same way, a single objective to pursue forward, and no real, serious counter.

It's far far less chaotic than in random battle matches where anything can happens. The sub just don't have the versatility at all.

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First of all I'd like to thank you WG for bringing submarines into this event. It has allowed us players to test it out, and it has allowed you to collect valuable data. Me personally enjoyed the submarines very much and I'd really like to see them brought into the game. Actually, that might even spark my interest back into this game.

 

Here's my feedback regarding submarines:

 

1. Submarines can refill their air supply at periscope level through a snorkel, so I think that should be reflected in the game. So in my opinion, you shouldn't be forced to fully surface in order to refill your air supply. Instead, you can give the fully surfaced mode other benefits, for example, longer spotting range, faster travel speed and of course the ability to use anti-air/secondaries.

 

2. The amount of time we can stay under water is way too short. I think it would be more interesting if we could stay under water for longer times as that would allow us to have a more interesting and strategic gameplay. Since we need to be at periscope level in order to use the torpedoes, allowing submarines to stay submerged for longer will not make them stronger on the offensive. Instead it will give them an easier time to escape, which is needed considering how fragile they are (and should be).

 

Here's my vision of submarines, maybe you can find some inspiration from this:

 

In my opinion, submarines should be the stealthy glass cannons in WoWs. They should offer an extremely sneaky gameplay, but one mistake could potentially get you sunk. The primary targets for submarines are battleships and carriers, while the biggest threat for submarines are destroyers and some cruisers. Playing submarines should mainly be a game of concealment, prediction and planning. Think of it as an ambusher. It should be very strong to cause damage against its primary targets if they sailed into the trap, and the submarines should be very good at escaping from danger, but they should be bad at aggressively forcing an attack.

 

Here's a few ideas to acheive this vision:

 

- The air supply should last for atleast ~5 minutes (or even remove it completely) and be refillable at periscope depth. Otherwise the submarine will be forced to stay next to allied ships because 90 seconds is not enough to escape from a destroyer when you're playing your submarine properly - as a lonewolf behind the enemy lines. If a destroyer finds you there it's game over, which shouldn't be the case. Remember - destroyers keep submarines at distance, but they don't automatically delete them.

 

- The range where the submarine gets spotted by other ships in periscope level should be equal to its torpedo range. This is to prevent situations when a single submarine can guard a base and shoot torps without getting spotted. Instead, the submarine should have to depend on the enemy target to actually sail into its torpedo range if it wants to stay hidden, and thus it also has to position itself accordingly. EDIT: Actually not sure if this would be needed in terms of balance, as destroyers can already torpedo-kite other ships that try to cap without getting spotted.

 

- When a submarine is below periscope level, it should be undetectable unless the enemy ship has sonar. This should allow the submarine to sneak by directly below for example a battleship without getting detected. This will allow submarines to get into new sneaky ambush positions, as explained in the previous point. Since submarines can't actually do damage at this depth, it shouldn't be any harm in making them (almost) invisible here.

 

- Diving deeper will make the submarine harder to find and damage even for destroyers with sonars, but it should also make the submarine slower and less manouverable. Basically it's a tradeoff, dive deeper and you become safer but can't do much against anyone - get closer to the surface in order to do something and you become easier to detect and damage.

 

- Design the maps so they have different max depths at different locations on the map. This will create 2 interesting situations. 1) Some locations on the map will become impractical or even dangerous for submarines as there's not enough depth there for the submarine to dive into safety from destroyers etc. 2) Some locations on the map will offer such deep waters that the submarine can't handle the water pressure. You could even introduce pressure damage. If you dive too deep, you lose a tiny bit of HP each second, kind of the same mechanics as with a fire but it can't be stopped unless you leave that depth.

 

- Because of the previous point, it would be nice if you introduced dynamic diving depth. Basically you can have 3 different modes - fully surfaced, periscope level, and fully submerged. In the fully submerged mode, you instead have a meters counter instead of levels, and you can adjust how many meters deep you want to dive. All submarines can have different max diving depths before they start taking pressure damage.

 

I think that's all. Most of these are just ideas, but hopefully it will give you some inspiration. You can always PM me WG if you're thinking along the same design lines as me and want more ideas/suggestion.

 

Once again, thanks for this great game mode and yes - submarines are very, very welcome to the game.

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On 11/2/2018 at 3:58 AM, RedAnark said:

Terror of the Deep or Halloween scenario don't work after 3:30 am Cet time? Isn't Halloween a night fest? Servers are scared...? :Smile_veryhappy:

 

Played 3 battles then at that time couldn't play anymore... see screen:

2018-11-02_03h40_55.thumb.jpg.d957124866d51404bc00d6c31f7d0d53.jpg

You can play operations 24/7 (given the server is online), but there is a certain limit to the battle count for each mode. This message simply indicates that there were too many battles running. In that case, try again later.

It can however also be related to partial server issues.


Thanks for the extensive feedback so far!

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On 10/17/2018 at 9:31 AM, MrConway said:

Captains,

 

Please leave any feedback regarding the new "Terror of the Deep" Halloween mode here.

 

We are particularly interested in what you think of the submarine mechanics! :cat_cool:

 

Please note: The mode will only be available October 31st!

 

 

This was one of the best events I took part in.

 

The Submarines are really fun. I didn't have a problem with them as of yet, in fact, playing for the past couple of days  I had no problems with it.

 

Thanks for the cool patch love it.

 

Thanks for everything and see you around.

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On 11/5/2018 at 6:46 PM, Sehales said:

You can play operations 24/7 (given the server is online), but there is a certain limit to the battle count for each mode. This message simply indicates that there were too many battles running. In that case, try again later.

It can however also be related to partial server issues.


Thanks for the extensive feedback so far!

Txs for explanation! Cheers!

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As WG have stated in the past "submarines will never make it to the game" lied to yet again haven't touched the event as mistruth is something I do not take to well. If these "things" ever make it to the main game it will be another lie. We'll see what WG thinks of us in the long run

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When playing battles in the Terror of the Deep operation, it is not counted as a played battle in the LBT Clan Tab.

Edit : sometimes it is counted as battle, sometimes is not. Not figured out the cause yet.

image.thumb.png.7009ef7cde389899fb909e1bc1eb68b8.png

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