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Episparh

Interaction of large-caliber AP shells with DDs

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It is brilliant. If bbs want to be effective vs dds, they will have to think 30sec ahead and load he, as it should be. Just removes some idiot-proofing from bbs

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[CSN]
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Yeeeeeeah thats a pretty bad solution

 

Just fix double dmg shells 

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[ONE2]
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Well, during the battle of Leyte Gulf... Americans won quite spectacularly against overwhelming odds mainly because the IJN obstinately kept on using AP on those unarmored DD's and Light Carriers, which mostly over-penetrated quite harmlessly allowing the American DD's to get within torpedo range alive and score several hits. So there is factual reason to do so. Also due to this, while Yamato scored several AP hit on the Carriers, the same happened (only 1 Carrier was actually sunk though they were all in range and should have been dead by rights). So there is quite a good justification for it too. One simply should have the right shell for the job, that's all. Also, makes currently irrelevant "Expert Loader" skill great again (let's just call it MELGA, shall we?)!! :cap_like:

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2 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Well, during the battle of Leyte Gulf... Americans won quite spectacularly mainly because the IJN obstinately kept on using AP on those DD's and Light carriers, which most over-penetrated quite harmlessly allowing the American DD's to get within torpedo range alive and score several hits. Also due to this, while Yamato scored several AP hit on the carriers, the same happened. So there is quite a valid reason for it too. One should have the right shell for the job, that's all. Also, makes "Expert Loader" skill great again!! :cap_like:

Overpens works fine given that DD is giving flat broadside... Or perhaps you think that these RL scenarios would have ended so well if the shells hit the nose and traveled full or half lenght of the 100m destroyer? 

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3 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Since this counts only for AP shells ... good solution.

Would agree if the % dmg reduced was not so radical 25-30% can achieve that too. 

 

Remember, that change affects few CLs and battle cruisers as they do not have nor dispersion nor reload to deal with close quarters DDs

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Just now, Episparh said:

Would agree if the % dmg reduced was not so radical 25-30% can achieve that too. 

Nope.

 

Of course, I'm still a bit torn (since I haven't tested this new featuer - can't wait for a PTS if this goes through), but I was among those the opted for BB AP to only do overpen DMG on DDs NO MATTER WHAT. 

 

If a BB wants to DMG a DD, there's an ammunition for that. Don't want to (or simply not able to) switch ammo? Tough luck.

 

Methinks this change is somewhat that wouldn't have such an outcry effect if there were actually teamwork (which could help BBs survive a DD rush better). But to be honest: I do like the idea that the game is balanced around proper team work.

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8 minutes ago, Episparh said:

Overpens works fine given that DD is giving flat broadside... Or perhaps you think that these RL scenarios would have ended so well if the shells hit the nose and traveled full or half lenght of the 100m destroyer? 

Weel, according to historical battle records. The DD's did not show broadside until close enough to fire their torps, but approached the Japanese head on (as they needed to otherwise they would have never closed the distance quickly enough to survive the fire they were receiving) and weaved all the way there while taking dozens of hits. So quite a few must have hit them lengthwise, unless the shell made quite sudden 80 degree turns while in-flight. So yeah I rather suspect that must have been the case.:cap_hmm:

 

Now, I'm not saying that AP should be wholly ineffective, but as it is it is quite ridiculous. So some change is clearly in order.:cap_tea:

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1 minute ago, Allied_Winter said:

Nope.

 

Of course, I'm still a bit torn (since I haven't tested this new featuer - can't wait for a PTS if this goes through), but I was among those the opted for BB AP to only do overpen DMG on DDs NO MATTER WHAT. 

 

If a BB wants to DMG a DD, there's an ammunition for that. Don't want to (or simply not able to) switch ammo? Tough luck.

 

Methinks this change is somewhat that wouldn't have such an outcry effect if there were actually teamwork (which could help BBs survive a DD rush better). But to be honest: I do like the idea that the game is balanced around proper team work.

That's the way to all HE BBs dark side... 

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about bloody time wg sorted something out to stop the crazy bb damage on dds

is it something that is perfect? god knows but anything is better than what we have

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Just now, Episparh said:

That's the way to all HE BBs dark side... 

How would that be different from now?

 

Like with cruisers: The player that knows when (and how) to switch ammo will prevail.

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9 minutes ago, Episparh said:

Would agree if the % dmg reduced was not so radical 25-30% can achieve that too. 

 

That woldnt make sense as AP is currently doing 33% damage on full pen to DDs. Reducing that to 30% would really not make any kind of difference, woudnt it?

10% is the right way to go. 

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3 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

How would that be different from now?

 

Like with cruisers: The player that knows when (and how) to switch ammo will prevail.

Switching shell type time for BB without commander perk is average 30s. (that's full duration of maximized Moskva radar and 10s more than droping to max concealment after firing guns) 

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1 minute ago, Episparh said:

Switching shell type time for BB without commander perk is average 30s. (that's full duration of maximized Moskva radar and 10s more than droping to max concealment after firing guns) 

I know... I don't see this however as a problem.

 

Even in the current state of the game I switch ammo in my BBs, without EL. When I know that a DD is somewhere close I go for HE... or to light a fire or two on the enemy BB that he repairs to make it easier for my cruisers.

 

Do I have sometimes the wrong ammo selected? Absolutely. Is it sometimes annoying to know that you could've done more DMG with the right ammo? Absoultely. Is it better than having a brain dead one size fits all ammo type? Absolutely.

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1 minute ago, Episparh said:

Switching shell type time for BB without commander perk is average 30s. (that's full duration of maximized Moskva radar and 10s more than droping to max concealment after firing guns) 

Stop right there, we can see you're a BBaby player that hates when his OP toys get balanced. 

 

Not to mention concealment after firing should also be chanced so bbs take full 30sec to go back to full concelment, CA 20s and DDs should only take 10s. This to make sure you dont get back to concealed when your fighting. A think many BBs can do now. 

 

This is a awesome chance for the game, simple as that. BBs need to less forgiving and dominating ships in the game. 

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2 minutes ago, hopeasusi said:

Stop right there, we can see you're a BBaby player that hates when his OP toys get balanced. 

 

Not to mention concealment after firing should also be chanced so bbs take full 30sec to go back to full concelment, CA 20s and DDs should only take 10s. This to make sure you dont get back to concealed when your fighting. A think many BBs can do now. 

 

This is a awesome chance for the game, simple as that. BBs need to less forgiving and dominating ships in the game. 

I am not BBaby... But I will be forced to fully switch to DD after this and supposed radar "fix" takes place. 

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It's not like you will do no damage at all either. 6 overpens on a DD with a Montana (so half a salvo) still shaves 8100 Hp of a DD. It still hurts. A lot.

 

Also Harugumo and Khebab will still eat full pens... 

 

But I always found totally stupid being able to do 19-20k salvo to DD without switching ammo. I can't count the number of time I almost dev-striked a DD with North Carolina in early game, a 12k salvo at tier 8 with only 6 guns on target is stupid no matter how I think about it.

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1 minute ago, Episparh said:

I am not BBaby... But I will be forced to fully switch to DD after this and supposed radar "fix" takes place. 

Just curious: Who forces you? And which radar fix are you talking about? Wooster + Seattle?

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It was about freaking time.
Thank you wg.
(From a dd captain who switched to cruisers because he got sick of all the shitstorms you keep throwing at dds face)

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[CATS]
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37 minutes ago, Episparh said:

Would agree if the % dmg reduced was not so radical 25-30% can achieve that too. 

 

Remember, that change affects few CLs and battle cruisers as they do not have nor dispersion nor reload to deal with close quarters DDs

33% is already the normal damage....

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1 minute ago, Allied_Winter said:

Just curious: Who forces you? And which radar fix are you talking about? Wooster + Seattle?

The DD will not have actual counters besides other DDs and their mistakes vs BB will not be punished. I am not talking about range nerf of USN CL but of mentioned by WG plans to play with LoS and single view radar. 

 

5 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

It's not like you will do no damage at all either. 6 overpens on a DD with a Montana (so half a salvo) still shaves 8100 Hp of a DD. It still hurts. A lot.

 

Also Harugumo and Khebab will still eat full pens... 

 

But I always found totally stupid being able to do 19-20k salvo to DD without switching ammo. 

CAs are far easier targets and will be deleted just by 3-4 of those. 

 

I do not understand why DDs should get that treatment as they have the ultimate tools of concealment, speeed and manuver arabillity. 

 

Not to mention that few CLs/CAs are actually able to survive a torpedoes launched from 6-7km on their side. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Episparh said:

The DD will not have actual counters besides other DDs and their mistakes vs BB will not be punished.

So you think BB AP was the counter to DDs all the way? Interesting. Bottom line: A BB SHOULD in my opinion be countered by a DD. BB HE would be the last ditch effort in my eyes for a BB to prevent that.

 

But as of now, BBs are far too easy to play and that needs to be changed. 

 

Do DDs have counters? Sure: Cruisers, CVs, other DDs (why make you sound it as if this was just a very minor counter...), a BB that's on the move and not sitting still ...

 

Still plenty of counters as far as I can see.

3 minutes ago, Episparh said:

I am not talking about range nerf of USN CL but of mentioned by WG plans to play with LoS and single view radar. 

Which we currently know nothing about, so I wouldn't count on that until WG has released at least a dev. blog about it.

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9 minutes ago, Episparh said:

mentioned by WG plans to play with LoS and single view radar. 

What?Where?
link pls
 

11 minutes ago, Episparh said:

I do not understand why DDs should get that treatment as they have the ultimate tools of concealment, speeed and manuver arabillity. 

Its not special treatment.Its how it should work in the first place.
BB HE is there for a reason, use it.
As other posters stated bbs are not a counter to dds.
You should be able to get your overpen damage but not that crap of 8k pens with 1 randomlolshell

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[MORSE]
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Well, how about cases where AP shell first hits water, arms and slows down significantly, then hits dd and pens then detonates? 

50 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Weel, according to historical battle records. The DD's did not show broadside until close enough to fire their torps, but approached the Japanese head on (as they needed to otherwise they would have never closed the distance quickly enough to survive the fire they were receiving) and weaved all the way there while taking dozens of hits. So quite a few must have hit them lengthwise, unless the shell made quite sudden 80 degree turns while in-flight. So yeah I rather suspect that must have been the case.:cap_hmm:

 

Now, I'm not saying that AP should be wholly ineffective, but as it is it is quite ridiculous. So some change is clearly in order.:cap_tea:

I think like how ap fuses arm here, if there is not enough crap in the way of the ap shell, it’s fuse won’t arm. In that case the shells probably got buried in the crew bunks somewhere unarmed, or has IJN shell quality has dropped. In other words, the current system somewhat works, if you angle in a dd, your giving more stuff in the way for a ap shell to arm and potentially detonate, if you show flat broadside, there is not enough stuff for it to arm so it pass through.

 

that said, in real life the ww2 dd has no armor at all, and when I say that, they just have at best sheet structure steel( not armor steel) with probably some more around engines, and that’s it. I suppose it fair enough.

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