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Kronshtadt - Stupidly Designed Paper Ship

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Ok so I have the Kron, I have been using it for a while now. I like at as a tanky cruiser, but I have a gripe with its design; specifically the bridge where you steer the ship.

 

How the hell can you see where your going through tiny slits of a window, let alone steer the ship? Its the dumbest thing I have seen in the game so far model wise (side view):

 

JXWI1B5.jpg

 

To me it just looks like a steel husk (front view):

MdDQAQy.png

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If you check the conning tower of other ships you will realize that they too have tiny viewports.

Because having large gaps in your conning tower, aka one of the most heavily armored sections of a ship, kinda fails the point about it being armored.

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3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

If you check the conning tower of other ships you will realize that they too have tiny viewports.

Because having large gaps in your conning tower, aka one of the most heavily armored sections of a ship, kinda fails the point about it being armored.

Not necessarily mate, if you look at many battle ships and cruisers, below is the moskva. You'll see the bridge has clearly defined windows, the Kron has no bridge:

 

M85X0iV.png

 

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27 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Not necessarily mate, if you look at many battle ships and cruisers, below is the moskva. You'll see the bridge has clearly defined windows, the Kron has no bridge:

 

Check the side. It clearly has the small viewports which will also exist inside. The operator will simply have to look through both the viewports AND the windows.

And yes, it was done so in real life if the conning tower wasn't directly exposed.

 

Example on the Iowa:

Spoiler

1477083676140249003.jpg

 

Small viewport clearly visible on the door.

Can be seen ingame here:

 

rAvU5OB.png

 

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Modern ships distinguish between the bridge (no armor and large windows) of a ship and its command center (heavily armored and small viewport).

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Vor 5 Stunden, ___V_E_N_O_M___ sagte:

Ok so I have the Kron, I have been using it for a while now. I like at as a tanky cruiser, but I have a gripe with its design; specifically the bridge where you steer the ship.

 

How the hell can you see where your going through tiny slits of a window, let alone steer the ship? Its the dumbest thing I have seen in the game so far model wise (side view):

 

JXWI1B5.jpg

 

To me it just looks like a steel husk (front view):

MdDQAQy.png

That "steel husk" is most probably the conning station from where the ship was commanded during engagements, thus heavily armored with vision ports only.

Conning during normal cruising was done mostly from the open bridge plattforms above or maybe even from the deck in front of the armored conning tower since there are voice pipes, gyro repeaters etc.

 

Regarding your Moskva comment:

Those windows are most probably just fitted in front the armored conning station (with its vision slits, etc.) to enclose the open bridge. It may be just a weather protection for the service in the northern regions or even already contributed to ABC protetcion. You have to keep in mind that Kronshtadt was still more a "classic" battleship/battlecruiser design of the pre war resp. early war era without the threat of nuclear warfare whereas Moskva is more or less a post war design.

With the nuclear age looming over the horizon in the late 40s it became necessary to refit / design the warships of the post WW2 era accordingly. A good example is the Iowa class. The enclosed bridge around the armored conning tower is a post war installation. Originally the bridges were just open.

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stupid ship ingame aswell

TKIzQLa.png

ZB9xeHS.png

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On 10/14/2018 at 9:55 AM, togMOR said:

That "steel husk" is most probably the conning station from where the ship was commanded during engagements, thus heavily armored with vision ports only.

Conning during normal cruising was done mostly from the open bridge plattforms above or maybe even from the deck in front of the armored conning tower since there are voice pipes, gyro repeaters etc.

 

Regarding your Moskva comment:

Those windows are most probably just fitted in front the armored conning station (with its vision slits, etc.) to enclose the open bridge. It may be just a weather protection for the service in the northern regions or even already contributed to ABC protetcion. You have to keep in mind that Kronshtadt was still more a "classic" battleship/battlecruiser design of the pre war resp. early war era without the threat of nuclear warfare whereas Moskva is more or less a post war design.

With the nuclear age looming over the horizon in the late 40s it became necessary to refit / design the warships of the post WW2 era accordingly. A good example is the Iowa class. The enclosed bridge around the armored conning tower is a post war installation. Originally the bridges were just open.

 

I think there has been some miscommunication about what the problem is, I dont care whether the conning tower is armoured or not. I mean the windowed bridge where the captain would sit is not present on the Kron other than some slits for windows. Most warships have clearly defined bridges, pre ww2 or post ww2.

 

Even Russia's modern Kirov Class Battlecruisers have clearly defined bridge decks with windows, Kron should have the same:

1920px-Nuclear_cruiser_Kirov.jpg

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Vor 28 Minuten, ___V_E_N_O_M___ sagte:

 

... I mean the windowed bridge where the captain would sit is not present on the Kron other than some slits for windows. Most warships have clearly defined bridges, pre ww2 or post ww2.

Why must there be a windowed bridge? In those times the ships were still conned mostly from open bridges.

Warships of the pre WW2 era didn´t have necessarily enclosed bridges "with windows". That highly depended on the particular navy´s doctrine and/or considered area of operation.

If you scan through the techtrees in WoWS you´ll find a lot of ships without windowed bridges.

 

Vor 1 Stunde, ___V_E_N_O_M___ sagte:

Even Russia's modern Kirov Class Battlecruisers have clearly defined bridge decks with windows, Kron should have the same:

 

Please don´t compare Cold War designs (remember the NBC threat?) with oldschool technology like the pre WW2 Kronshtadt.

Maybe they would have added some screens to the open conning stations during the ships lifetime or even fully enclosed a portion, if the ship would have been built at least. Who knows.

Thus the present appearance is still reasonable.

:Smile_honoring:

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6 minutes ago, togMOR said:

Why must there be a windowed bridge? In those times the ships were still conned mostly from open bridges.

Warships of the pre WW2 era didn´t have necessarily enclosed bridges "with windows". That highly depended on the particular navy´s doctrine and/or considered area of operation.

If you scan through the techtrees in WoWS you´ll find a lot of ships without windowed bridges.

 

Please don´t compare Cold War designs (remember the NBC threat?) with oldschool technology like the pre WW2 Kronshtadt.

Maybe they would have added some screens to the open conning stations during the ships lifetime or even fully enclosed a portion, if the ship would have been built at least. Who knows.

Thus the present appearance is still reasonable.

:Smile_honoring:

Please show me some tech-tree ships that don't have windowed or open air bridges? Because my idea of a warship is one in which the bridge is a clearly visible part of the ship, except for subs of course.

 

All other russian cruisers dating from around the time of the Kronshtadt design had visible bridges...

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The bridge of a WW2 sub was actually the top of the conning tower, on open air.

When it was dived the submarine was controlled from the Control Room. Within the hull.

Kirov is not exactly a good instance of anything that can be reasonably related with this game. That class was designed in the 70s, and in modern warships armored CTs (Conning Towers) don't exist as they did in WW2.

AS for Kronshtadt ,my understanding is that they modelled the ship following to the point the drawings of the historical project. Want to blame someone on the lack of a distinct "glassed" bridge, blame the actual naval designers who drew those designs, not WG :P

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4 hours ago, togMOR said:

Why must there be a windowed bridge? In those times the ships were still conned mostly from open bridges.

Warships of the pre WW2 era didn´t have necessarily enclosed bridges "with windows". That highly depended on the particular navy´s doctrine and/or considered area of operation.

If you scan through the techtrees in WoWS you´ll find a lot of ships without windowed bridges.

 

Please don´t compare Cold War designs (remember the NBC threat?) with oldschool technology like the pre WW2 Kronshtadt.

Maybe they would have added some screens to the open conning stations during the ships lifetime or even fully enclosed a portion, if the ship would have been built at least. Who knows.

Thus the present appearance is still reasonable.

:Smile_honoring:

Really? Even Mikasa a pre dreadnout had more armored bridge sections. Take a look how much damage 50 cal  aircraft guns did personal wise on non armored ships like DDs. Dont think any BB that didnt had a more armored battle bridge....

 

 

Mikasa.jpg

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On 14/10/2018 at 10:56 AM, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

How the hell can you see where your going through tiny slits of a window, let alone steer the ship? Its the dumbest thing I have seen in the game so far model wise (side view):

 

Just so you know while Belfast has a windowed bridge, its steering wheel is buried deep in the hull within an armoured encasing. So the helmsmen literally steer without looking out of a window.

 

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Belfast_-_Forward_steering_position_2.jpg

 

 

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Vor 19 Stunden, ___V_E_N_O_M___ sagte:

Please show me some tech-tree ships that don't have windowed or open air bridges? Because my idea of a warship is one in which the bridge is a clearly visible part of the ship, except for subs of course.

 

All other russian cruisers dating from around the time of the Kronshtadt design had visible bridges...

I think you are mixing up some terminology here.

On a classic warship of those periods you have a bridge from where the ship was conned during normal cruises. That is where usually the commanding officer and his bridge crew were.

Depending on the navy and/or the ships type, the actual steering (helmsman, etc.) might be there as well or a deck below (then usually without much outside vision).

These bridges or parts thereof where either completely open or had windowed screens around / roofing overhead. Again depending on ships type, navy philosophy and service area.

Therefore you can´t simply say "no windows - no bridge". Thats just silly.

 

Vor 14 Stunden, Spellfire40 sagte:

Really? Even Mikasa a pre dreadnout had more armored bridge sections. Take a look how much damage 50 cal  aircraft guns did personal wise on non armored ships like DDs. Dont think any BB that didnt had a more armored battle bridge....

Pictured there is the armored conning station, used when battlestations were called and the ship went into action, not the regular bridge. That would be one or more decks above.

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Regardless of whether the conning tower was armoured or not. Most ships had a windowed bridge where the captain sits. In the Kronshtadt, it appears the captain would only have a slit to view through. This is stupid.

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6 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Regardless of whether the conning tower was armoured or not. Most ships had a windowed bridge where the captain sits. In the Kronshtadt, it appears the captain would only have a slit to view through. This is stupid.

 

 

Well soviet naval designers of the time weren't renowned as the best of the world, that's for sure (specially not when they had to "design" whatever nonsense Stalin happened to wish on a given day, made it sense or not)...

But to call them "stupid" would be too much :cap_yes: . Again, the 3D model of Kronshtadt is a reproduction of the design drawings of the actual warship as designed by the soviets. So stupid, or not, it's how she was going to be, had she been finalized (well with the caveat of the 6x380mm guns instead of the 9x305mms, but that's a topic on it's own).

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Okay, guys, this is a general reaction to this thread:

 

There are three different things you guys are blurring more or less together:

  • Bridge
  • Conning tower
  • CIC/OpsRoom

Now.

  • A Brige is a part of a ship from which sailing and low intensity combat operations are usually conducted. This is the open/semi-open/closed structure with big windows and generally high visibility, from which a command crew will sail the ship and perhaps conduct bombardment. Later command crews would generally opt to stay here even during high-intensity combat to have a better overview and control of combat operations
  • The Conning Tower is (in terms of the referring ship design) a heavily armoured box with small vision ports housing one set of steering and engine controls as well as communication equipment. The main purpose of this rather uncomfortable space was to provide a protected area in which the command crew can safely be during combat with lower risk of them being incapacitated. The low visibility made it an unfavorable place to be during combat however, as it was difficult to effectively command a ship while relying on information passed on. Later in shipbuilding quite a few navies abandoned conning towers altogether due to them notbeing practical overall. Note that bridges were oftentimes placed on top of or around conning towers, and that conning towers were almost always directly accessible from the bridge (see Spellfire's picture of Mikasa's CT within her bridge)
  • The CIC/OpsRoom is a protected space down in the ship (generally in the protected volume or citadel) from which a ship can be effectively commanded in and out of combat (but generally in combat). The CIC came about after it was found that the ridge was too unprotected and the conning tower too impractical to command a ship in combat. The CIC generally houses radar, communicatin and command facilities arranged for the commander's convenience sothat he can have the best overview of the tactical situation and he can make the best possible decision. The CIC will also typically be close or together with the main weapn's controls (main plot/transmitting station, secondary plot, missile fire control)

What OP is showing in the first pic is a Conning tower. Atypical in its square rather than circular/oval nature, a conning tower regardless. What he shows in his second post is a bridge.

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Most DDs have open bridges, look at the Daring, has an open bridge with like a canvas covering for some rain protection and then if you look at HMAS Vampire, this area is now enclosed and fully glassed, as it was upgraded later on. 

 

The bridge, looking at both the pics in the OP looks to basically be in front of the conning tower, you can see like the speaking tubes and other equipment there. 

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