Aircraft Carriers: Check out the Changes! - Discussion Thread

[1MajorKoenig]

My first Impression: Very positive! Not perfect but on the Right track.

 

PLUS:

• Immersion - feels far less detached
• more interaction between ships and planes
• dropping Looks Pretty Player skill rewarding and very Little RNGish
• evading the Flak bubbles is a lot more fun than it sounds (I know the Concept sounds awkward but it is Kind of funy to Play)
• visuals+

 

to be improved (in my opinion):

• Option to Change to CV also while planes are up in the air through a simple button, eg. "1"
• Same for DCP and such, you should be able to take Control of the CV any time and not Abandon the squadron
• Fighters I don't LIKE at all. You just call them somewhere in the path of the enemy Squadron and they shred the strike. The mechnics are not fun. I would either propose a consumable "Combat Air Patrol" that patrols close to the carrier or something totally different. the current model isn't nice in my opinion
• no reward to Keep planes ALife. yes there is a cooldown and such but it could be more pronounced

 

That are very first impressions though - but first and foremost: it seems a lot of fun to Play!

[Seepheerd]

5 hours ago, Panocek said:

 

one does not simply read I guess...

Thanks. Yes it is annoying, I'm out of test.

[Seepheerd]

5 hours ago, Equilibrium1980 said:

So second impression. You can't lock plane squadrons with Ctrl+fire button. Is that a bug or it's how's done from now on?

Use the ~ button (no idea why)

[puxflacet]

5 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

• Fighters I don't LIKE at all. You just call them somewhere in the path of the enemy Squadron and they shred the strike. The mechnics are not fun. I would either propose a consumable "Combat Air Patrol" that patrols close to the carrier or something totally different. the current model isn't nice in my opinion

simply give the planes abitlity to shoot each other. rocket planes seems to best fit to the old fighters role (these planes are fighters after all) because the rockets seems to do little damage to ships anyway. 

 

torp planes : biggest damage against ships, low damage against planes

dive bombers: middle way

rocket planes: low damage against ships, shooting down planes very well

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, puxflacet said:

simply give the planes abitlity to shoot each other. rocket planes seems to best fit to the old fighters role (these planes are fighters after all) because the rockets seems to do little damage to ships anyway. 

 

torp planes : biggest damage against ships, low damage against planes

dive bombers: middle way

rocket planes: low damage against ships, shooting down planes very well

 

Could be an Option. Our you make the fighters only an asset to the CV itself to defend yourself against strikes and the ships in your vicinity

[greenglade]

getting the hang of it...I like it...need a button to switch between plane and ship though and of course, need to be able to control more than 1 flight at a time. One thing that I liked was being able to still control the flight and attack after the CV gets sunk...

 

also server either just crashed or was shut down for another update?

 

GG

[Pjod]

Took a swing at it.

1. I would like to have a "plane test range" to try out and practice the different aiming/attack modes of the different plane types and get the hang of how to aim properly in the first place.

 

2. Dont know if i'm alone with that, but... 2D plane movements? Left, right and forward? Not a fan of it. A up/down-option should be added, just like the boost with a timer and a limited height. So you could actually outmaneuver the long range AA.

 

3. Give us some Flags and Captain Skills to try them and their effect out. It is nice to play stock ships but ... unrealistic, as they will be fully upgraded on the live server.

 

4. Let us switch controls between the carrier and the squadron in the air. This limitation "only the airborne squadron" is just not necessary in my opinion.

 

5. As a non CV: Dont show me Squadrons in the Sky 24 km away. I can see them on the minimap and i want to see them if they come near me. Too much information.

 

That is that for now. I got also disconnected. Hope to test them some more soon.

[puxflacet]

48 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Could be an Option. Our you make the fighters only an asset to the CV itself to defend yourself against strikes and the ships in your vicinity

I think there has to be more active way to defend your fleet, otherwise it allways be just damage farming. There has to be some counterplay and tactics involved. CVs should be able to actively threaten enemy planes. Dropping somewhere circling bot fighters doesnt seem to be either effective or appealing imho

[1MajorKoenig]

27 minutes ago, puxflacet said:

I think there has to be more active way to defend your fleet, otherwise it allways be just damage farming. There has to be some counterplay and tactics involved. CVs should be able to actively threaten enemy planes. Dropping somewhere circling bot fighters doesnt seem to be either effective or appealing imho

 

I wouldn’t be against planes fighting planes but I doubt it’s gonna happen as WG wants to heavily push the ship - plane interaction. Which is exactly what this rework. 

 

Haven’t fully made up my mind but the current fighter mechanics are really bad.

 

So yes, very positive direction but fighters and control of CV need to change

[Redcap375]

They don't want skill gap so no fighters to control im afraid.

 

WG have already stated that most can't multitask so they need to keep it simple. Which we all know, this is.

 

Greater graphics, lower gameplay. But that is what this day-and-age gamers want and are WG biggest customers.

[rising_uk]

I'm old and a day and night player and this sounds a terrible idea, you're basically taking away the RTS part of the game and producing a naval worldofwarplanes game for the cerebrally challenged. If you wanted the CVS back in the game you shouldn't have buffed everything against them. How do you think this meta will go now? As my take is that with only one squadron to control CVS will not even attempt to support or spot for fleet anymore but just go hunting and farming their own XP and given they can't sail and fly the most sensible will just hide behind a rock somewhere or go to the edge of the map and sit there. Sounds like WOWS is trying to go WarThunder route but if I wanted WT then I'd play WT(but good luck to them as I get that they need to keep innovating). I really hope Skull&Bones turns out to be a good sail version of WOWS as that is where I'll be off to with my cash if this goes the way I think it will.(now where are those markets for accounts? :) )

[Latur_Husky]

After playing a few battles all I have to say is that CV Gameplay is very promising. There are a few issues with it though.

 

1. There should be ability to use consumables while in flight (Repair party, AA defence etc.)

2. Other ships needs some kind of counterplay other than maneuvering like manually operated AA to add some kind of skill factor into the game.

3. CV's needs to start with Aircraft being unprepared and I think to add some skill factor into it players should decide before launching a flight which group should be prepared next.

4. While flying attack airplanes players should be able to engage in air to air combat to defend against other air attacks.

5. there should be an ability to call fighters to defend the sector or certain ship or our carrier if needed.

[sneakyscotsman]

Agree with Asthaven,

ships need to be able to focus fire AA on the squadron they want not just a vague port/starboard choice. I actualy found myself turning to broad side TB's and ignoring enemy ships.

I was also getting shouts for fighter support from differing points on the map, all as urgent as each other but unless im missing something i can only call in fighters to my squads current location.

It's also too easy to slap DD's about with rockets when they are hiding in smoke (as long as they fire ) simply scattering them in the rough area usualy gets some hits.

 

 

[Seepheerd]

19 minutes ago, sneakyscotsman said:

Agree with Asthaven,

ships need to be able to focus fire AA on the squadron they want not just a vague port/starboard choice. I actualy found myself turning to broad side TB's and ignoring enemy ships.

I was also getting shouts for fighter support from differing points on the map, all as urgent as each other but unless im missing something i can only call in fighters to my squads current location.

It's also too easy to slap DD's about with rockets when they are hiding in smoke (as long as they fire ) simply scattering them in the rough area usualy gets some hits.

 

 

Fighters:

You have to watch the whole scene, incoming TBD's and such, so you'd maneuver to their directions not just attack ships like a headless chicken...

 

Swapping AA from one side to the other is 15 sec. 

[radius77]

So I just watched a video from test and tier X gameplay from one of CCs and better WoWs players.

 

My thoughts: well, 

 

For both teams 6 out of 8 worse performance ships were DDs, an in fact there were only 6 DDs that game

For both teams 3 out of 4 best performance ships were "reworked" CVs (2 CVs each side)

 

That says all for me on how "succesfull" this rework will be  

 

 

[DrSick]

So far I've only tested the Midway to a certain degree. Here are my thoughts:

 

1. CVs need the ability to repair their ship while controlling planes. You can control the ship by setting a path on the map but you will burn/flood to death if you get hit(unless you recall squads of course).

2. There is a huge discrepancy between fighter comps: atm I find the HVAR 127mm. far superior to the Tiny Tims. While I do enjoy wrecking havoc with the HVAR, you need to reduce the fire chance on them.

3. Dive bombers are not as rewarding as they should be with a full aim. I found that on average a full aim will reward 1 fire. Half aiming is an average of 2 fires, 3 if you're lucky.

4. Torpedo bomber indicators are half a pixel too long for it to be accurate. I'm used to dropping on a min load distance and this affects gameplay. Also, while the torpedo bombers have a boost that can increase the time it takes to make the drop, the torpedoes can generally be avoided by bbs easily due to high arming distance and low travel speed. (might be the flavor of USN CVs, since IJN have deep water torps)

5. The interface is somewhat clunky. The transition of the aim is luckluster to say the least while banking (fighters/dive bombers).

6. While the gameplay is indeed different, I find that the discrepancy between good and bad CV players will show even more. Might be just me but staying out of AA bubbles became even harder.

7. Will not make any comments on the general ship AA for the time being since noone has Captain skills or Upgrades, but I find defensive fire to be less of a deterrent than it used to be.

8. Even though matches are filled with bots, sometimes the bots dodge better than actual players. In light of that I have to say that the average damage I get on Midway at this moment is far higher than the average damage I get on live on the same ship.

 

Recommendations:

- Interface fix: Repair consumable(for the carrier) on planes.

- Slight nerf to long range AA, slight buff to short range AA(Do not forget CVs have a 10% reduction on short range AA dmg due to captain skill). *This needs further consideration in light a full 19 captain AA spec and upgrades. Just putting it out there.

 

For now this is all I can say, I'll keep testing but can't say I like the new changes. But that's just my opinion.

 

Edit: The return flight path of squads is preset. I have instances when I need to divert aircraft away from me so that my position isn't compromised easily. At the moment there is no way to avoid this.

[Xevious_Red]

3 hours ago, radius77 said:

So I just watched a video from test and tier X gameplay from one of CCs and better WoWs players.

 

My thoughts: well, 

 

For both teams 6 out of 8 worse performance ships were DDs, an in fact there were only 6 DDs that game

For both teams 3 out of 4 best performance ships were "reworked" CVs (2 CVs each side)

 

That says all for me on how "succesfull" this rework will be  

 

 

All 4 of the CV will have been actual players. How many of the other 20 were players, and what were they in?

[Crysantos]

3 hours ago, radius77 said:

So I just watched a video from test and tier X gameplay from one of CCs and better WoWs players.

 

My thoughts: well, 

 

For both teams 6 out of 8 worse performance ships were DDs, an in fact there were only 6 DDs that game

For both teams 3 out of 4 best performance ships were "reworked" CVs (2 CVs each side)

 

That says all for me on how "succesfull" this rework will be  

 

 

I wouldn't judge a system by the result of one battle on a test server - if you have the chance to test it yourself, please do and let us know how the CV rework feels to you. Also please keep in mind that this test session is not about the balance as focus (since not in final state anyway) but the general feeling and fun factor of it.

 

6 hours ago, Asthaven said:

After playing a few battles all I have to say is that CV Gameplay is very promising. There are a few issues with it though.

 

1. There should be ability to use consumables while in flight (Repair party, AA defence etc.)

2. Other ships needs some kind of counterplay other than maneuvering like manually operated AA to add some kind of skill factor into the game.

3. CV's needs to start with Aircraft being unprepared and I think to add some skill factor into it players should decide before launching a flight which group should be prepared next.

4. While flying attack airplanes players should be able to engage in air to air combat to defend against other air attacks.

5. there should be an ability to call fighters to defend the sector or certain ship or our carrier if needed.

Thanks for the feedback! How long do you think the initial preparation before the launch of the first squadron should take?

 

Greetings, Crysantos

[SdKfz_186_Jagdtiger]

 

According to this:

 

1 hour ago, Crysantos said:

please keep in mind that this test session is not about the balance as focus (since not in final state anyway) but the general feeling and fun factor of it.

 

Feeling and fun factor are much better than RTS mode. Having direct influence on bomb drop is something amazing, and satisfaction after a good drop is great. So in my view this kind of change is very good idea and will bring CVs players quite fun.

 

The "fighters" thing. This is a bad solution to call them and they instantly show up in the map. There should be some "arriving time" and they should flight form a deck of the CV.  OR Remove ability to call fighters form CV and leave as it is - fighters on CA/CL and BBs.

[LtSpitfire]

I am going to leave the "first review" under spoiler tags (hidden), until I manage to get a proper hold of the mechanics. While it may not reflect the final thoughts of the new mechanics, they definitely reflect the feeling a "new player" could feel when playing carriers for the first time.
 

Spoiler

 

After a good couple of games in both sides (CV and non-CV), unlocking Hakuryu and trying several tactics I've come to some early conclusions:

I don't like this rework at all, I guess the best way is to talk in pros/cons:

Pros:

• It is indeed visually gorgeous, the flak, the audio, all that dakka gives quite a bit of immersion and it feels very nice.

That's it for the pros, really, let's move onto the cons (all of it from my point of view).

Cons:

• Compared to the previous system, I feel like a braindead bot who is there to rack up my damage and leave, that's it, there is literal zero possibilities of teamwork with randoms, zero coordination, zero ways to send them help if they need it other than going there yourself and wasting your time and planes, like asking a destroyer at another cap to come to yours to drop smoke.
• It is plagued by RNG except for the torpedo bombers (but we'll leave that for last):
  • The Rocket fighters are literal shotguns, fire and forget weapons that are eventually (on higher tiers) "made" to work well against big targets due to their ellipsoid but lack the possibility to really hit anything that is slimmer than a cruiser, of course this is made in purpose to avoid and reduce devastating alpha to destroyers, but it's still plagued with RNG no matter what you're aiming at. In a way I guess they are "balanced", and only work to chip out very lightly armored targets.
  • The Dive Bombers must be faulty as it's the only explanation I could find, and surprisingly they are the most reliable damage dealers I've found in higher tiers, the ellipsoid on a good run is roughly the width of a battleship so you can ensure hits, but the main problem is that the bombs literally go wherever they want even if you're doing a 75º drop, they may land on the torpedo bulges from the dispersion, god knows what the pilots are doing when dropping them. They seriously need a rework on their drop sigma (if they have any, because the dispersion is horrendous) to feel more balanced, because obviously a good Admiral will be doing evasive maneuvers so they won't be sitting ducks while you dive bomb on them.
  • And now... the Torpedo Bombers... I apologize but I have to use the following expression. What the actual [edited]are these, seriously (specially Hakuryu's, sweet Jesus). From the makers of Anvil & Hammer now comes... drop two torpedoes every run from so further away by the time they reach the target, the target is in another cap. I can't count the amount of times the torpedoes have failed to arm before reaching the target even if I gave them margin. I can't count the amount of times the target merely kept cruising or simply turned to either side to just avoid them. It's no use "you can simply go for another run", there is a literal no way to hit a player who is enforcing MINIMAL evasives on you, not even a single torpedo, not even if you drop them in groups of 4 instead of 2. TB who in the current meta are the biggest damage dealers (except for Graffy's AP, but that's another case), I feel they are completely and utterly garbage, but specially Hakuryu's, and let me tell you why. Hakuryu starts with C6N Saiuns, which in their base for were designed as recon planes without weapons, and the C6NB1 which was the torpedo variant was never constructed, anyway, these base planes can engage the enemy in waves of 2 until you run out of planes in the squad, the main problem? The torpedoes are 41kt fast, meaning any single Tier VIII-X ship can pretty much keep running and evade them, to this moment I have yet to hit any target with these. Then you upgrade them for the Tenray, which are Land Based torpedo/bombers... and now the calamity occurs, the speed is increased to 50, which makes you think HOORAY! speedy torpedoes maybe I can hit something now... EXCEPT YOU HAVE TO LAUNCH THEM AT MORE THAN 3 KM AWAY FROM THE TARGET MINIMUM. There is NO literal way to hit a player form that distance or even lead at that distance if said player has one working neuron, no frigging way to hit anything, seriously, when you see that drop pattern and the minimum arming zone far in the horizon it makes you think "what the hell is going on". I am seriously falling out of love with carriers.
• As I said, there is no way to help your teammates sending them fighters, why not make it like this:
  • If you merely press the fighter consumable, they appear on you, as they do now.
  • If you hold the key and look around to a friendly ship, you send them to them with a bigger delay (they appear from 7km away instead of 5km). Just give us the possibility to cover our teammates somehow even if we are not on top of them.
• Another thing, the controls are... very clunky, they are rather unresponsive when you need to do minimum corrections, but also using WASD to move and also using the mouse to steer is just ridiculous, make it so we can choose to disable the mouse movement except if you're in strike mode, I feel it would be greatly appreciated. There is no problem regarding this as this could be fixed rather easily, it's more infuriating than anything but it's understandable.

 

There are more things I would like to talk about but sadly I have to go and these are the most important ones.
I would seriously like to meet the developer who thought those options for the torpedo bombing drop (specially the Tenray) were "balanced" even for a test. I can vouch it was the same developer who though that during the initial Graf Zeppelinn release, thought that 6 seconds to drop bombs were "working as intended". And I say this without pungency, if this is how carriers are going to be I want them to be balanced, to be good, but sadly in this framework test we're doing... they are not enjoyable, at least for me.

 

Have a good day! Test away!

[Nice_Mouse]

Hi there

 

i would like to share my two cents:

 

Things i do not like:

1. Refuel / Rearming Time of the Planes is too fast. You spam planes, literally throw them at the enemy.
2. Too mutch Airtraffic. Incomming attacks and returning planes make it hard to keep the general overview.
3. Too many planes on small maps with two carriers so incomming and outgoing planes spot too mutch. I see consealment, balancing Problems.
4. Planes return straight to the carrier and reveal his position.
5. IJN too weak / USN too strong. IJN has DW Torps and AP Bombs. They cant hit tiny boats and even larger Targets can avoid the DW Torps because of the long arming distance. This compared with the tiny Squad Size should be rebalanced.
6. R Key only usable when you abandon your active squad.

Things i like:

1. Fast Gameplay, you dont have to wait ages to reach the target.
2. Only one Modul for Planes. All other Upgrades are just shipbased. I love it!

 

And a personal word...

Great  Test Community, no swearing, everyone was super friendly yesterday and it is fun to play with all of you!

[Sukasaa]

I just received E-mail invitation from WG to participate  for Aircraft Carrier test, I was wondering do I need to download whole new Client? :3

[Latur_Husky]

4 hours ago, Crysantos said:

I wouldn't judge a system by the result of one battle on a test server - if you have the chance to test it yourself, please do and let us know how the CV rework feels to you. Also please keep in mind that this test session is not about the balance as focus (since not in final state anyway) but the general feeling and fun factor of it.

 

Thanks for the feedback! How long do you think the initial preparation before the launch of the first squadron should take?

 

Greetings, Crysantos

I think from 30 to 45 seconds for first group or if flight deck is empty. (maybe depending on captain skill and/or modules) twice more if there is other flight group already prepared on deck.

[ASharpPencil]

Why I cant play them? I got invite to the test...

[KazeAmaru]

Why is this test even up?

 

I mean we play against bots like 99% of the time. Bots who play, bad as one can.

It doesn't gives us the opportunity to test out AA capability, how easy are the torpedos to dodge. ETC.

 

Also only T6 or T10, what e.g. with a T6 vs T8 to see how the planes fare then? Again nothing.

 

Also why are captain skills disabled?

This test, is NOT even close to being representative. All Data "gained" from it, is totally useless.

 

I mean even the mechanics do not work, 7 rockets hits on target sir? That will be exactly, bloody 0 DMG. But here have some silver ribbons for hitting. EVERY DAMN TIME: