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YukiEiriKun

Went to Kure again...

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So .. I went to Kure again.
Looked at the dock where Yamato was made.
And the 1:1 mock up bow section they have made of the Yamato there.

But since we are getting submarines for our Halloween event, I decided to go to the Japan Maritime Self Defend Force Submarine display that they have next to the Yamato museum. :)

 

The museum .. or display, is free admittance, which was a (somewhat) pleasant surprise, I would have gladly payed for the entrance but they did not want my Gaijin-money. :D
At the lower level, there was some information of the forming of IJN (and JMSDF):

1889 - Naval station and Kure

1916 - Pre JMSDF History

1954 - Birth of the JMSDF

1976 (my birth year! yay!) - Growth of the JMSDF

2012 - The 60th Anniversary and the Future of JMSDF

 

All very interesting if you are interested .. but I wanted to see the "not-so-float-botes", i.e. submarines.

To my dissapointment, this truly was JMSDF excebition and there was almost no mentions about the second world war and the IJN. Poor japanese people are as shamed (as the germans) of their history. Well ... winners write the history and so on...
 

There was a BIG Know your BOTE!! cross-section of the bote "JDS Akishio", a diesel-electric Yūshio-class submarine. This is the same bote (Iron Whale / 鉄のくじら館 (Tetsu no Kujira Kan)) I was about to enter.

 

Most of the excebition was focused of the after-war mine destruction and such, which is understandable. After the Hiroshima and Nagasaki events, Japanese people have been very .. peaceful. Still they put up these great "peace" museums for their great machines of war, not to boast, but to remind everyone how destructive wars are. :)

 

Still, there were comparisons of the old IJN Myoko and the modern JMSDF Myoko as well as the old IJN BB Ise and the new JMSDF Ise.
Many others as well, but these were the closest to the WoWs, so I did not take pic's of the others... :-/

 

Also they were showing how gatling guns were used as anti torpedo armament even though I'm pretty sure gatling guns were way POST WW2. :)
But hey, a gatling gun! :D

 

Interior shots, and a shot through the periscope can be found from my JDS Akishio folder here.

 

And if you are into Formula 1, I've uploaded some vid's here.

No need to comment or upvote, they are there just for my entertainment, not for any kind of monetization. :)

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So, I don't want to detract from your neat visit and the photographs you're sharing, but this is kind of a personal pet-peeve of mine (as a german who does Japan studies) ...

 

3 hours ago, YukiEiriKun said:

[...] there was almost no mentions about the second world war and the IJN. Poor japanese people are as shamed (as the germans) of their history. [...]

 

Germany wen't through post-war denazification and has ever since been incredibly thorough in acknowledging and educating people regarding WW2 and their own role in it.

Japan on the other hand never went through something even remotely comparable and was (and still is as has been correctly noted) doing a desperate "We got to save face" thing, burying their heads in the sand whilst screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" in an effort to just ignore and forget, which went on to Japan actively and consistently omitting historical facts in their own history schoolbooks, denying things that are proven to have happened (such as denying the existance of army brothels with forced sexworkers for example), etc. pp..

 

So yeah, in the context you were making, that comparision of Japan with Germany is hilariously incorrect.

 

 

That said, carry on.

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44 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

So yeah, in the context you were making, that comparision of Japan with Germany is hilariously incorrect.

That said, carry on.

Please elaborate.
Both nations, after the defeat in the WW2 have been quite silent of the (especially the Germans about the rocket technology) accomplishments during the war years.

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24 minutes ago, YukiEiriKun said:

Please elaborate.

I did.

 

Also, you can't have been to many german museums/memorial sites that cover the technological aspects of the relevant WW2 period, because I know firsthand the Deutsches Musuem in Munich where I've been to several times has a surviving V2 rocket as exhibit (among with a V-1 flying bomb, a ME-262 (first operation jet-engine powered fighter) and other WW2 Luftwaffe aircraft, plus several models of german warships in the nautical exhibition hall). So does the Deutsches Museum in Berlin (the V2 that is at least, been a while since I was there) and according to a superficial wiki-search on just the V2 rocket a surviving (albeit rusty) original engine is on display in the Dora-Mittelbau concentration camp memorial site where they used forced labour to build those rockets underground ...

 

I've also toured a surviving Type XXI u-boat that was refurbished for the Bundesmarine that is moored as a museum boat in Bremerhaven in its WW2 wartime configuration and the tourguide and information plaques had to say quite a bit about WW2 and the use of u-boats.

 

 

 

So yeah, Japan is happily ignoring it's own little history about WW2 as far as their involvement is considered at the best of times and downright revisionist at its worst, but that's not what this topic is about, I just wanted to point out the ill-fated comparision because it's a pet-peeve of mine as I had to deal with that particular annoyance during my studies.

 

 

But we digress.

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*Sigh*

I have to agree with @Aotearas.

As much as I am a self-confessed Japanofile who adores modern Japan, I have to admit that how modern Japan chooses to gloss over Imperial Japan's role in WW2 is an enormous frustration point for me.

Having said that, even British schools choose to focus on the history where Britain was either the good guy (The World Wars or Napoleanic Conflicts) or fighting itself (The Wars of the Roses or the Civil War) rather than when we were the bad guys (The Opium Wars, our conquest of North America or the whole East India Company thing).

I wish I could convince Japan and even my own country that it's best to remember the past - the good and bad, but what can one person do?

4 minutes ago, YukiEiriKun said:

Please elaborate.
Both nations, after the defeat in the WW2 have been quite silent of the (especially the Germans about the rocket technology) accomplishments during the war years.

Germany has banned the Swastika from appearing outside of history lessons. They also stress that they were the bad guys during the two World Wars.

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41 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

So yeah, Japan is happily ignoring it's own little history about WW2 as far as their involvement is considered at the best of times and downright revisionist at its worst, but that's not what this topic is about, I just wanted to point out the ill-fated comparision because it's a pet-peeve of mine as I had to deal with that particular annoyance during my studies.

But we digress.

 

40 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

*Sigh*

I have to agree with @Aotearas.

As much as I am a self-confessed Japanofile who adores modern Japan, I have to admit that how modern Japan chooses to gloss over Imperial Japan's role in WW2 is an enormous frustration point for me.

Having said that, even British schools choose to focus on the history where Britain was either the good guy (The World Wars or Napoleanic Conflicts) or fighting itself (The Wars of the Roses or the Civil War) rather than when we were the bad guys (The Opium Wars, our conquest of North America or the whole East India Company thing).

I wish I could convince Japan and even my own country that it's best to remember the past - the good and bad, but what can one person do?

Germany has banned the Swastika from appearing outside of history lessons. They also stress that they were the bad guys during the two World Wars.

 

But I still find to hard to see both of your points.

I understand them, yes...

 

But I was trying to say that they are in strange maelstrom where they (especially Japanese) are proud of their history, but still present themself like an losers just because of the history written by the winners.
No, I am not talking about the concentration camps. We will not go there.

I am talking about the technical advances these two nations gave to the rest of us!

Also Captain_LOZFFVII; The opium wars were BRITTISH against the China. Nothing to do with Japan.

Anyhow.... I love Japan, I love Japanese culture, especially the Shinto! Respect all living things, respect all nature, respect you fellow dweller.

I respect (and have respected) you all. :)

 

I may be a bit difficult to understand, english is not my native language, but I still try to make my point.
RESPECT all!

Live your life well, respecting all, living and static things (like mountains or rivers).

Have fun, but do not annoy or disrispect anyone/anything else.

Enjoy!

 

:D

 

//eiri..

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3 minutes ago, YukiEiriKun said:

Also Captain_LOZFFVII; The opium wars were BRITTISH against the China. Nothing to do with Japan.

54 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

Having said that, even British schools choose to focus on the history where Britain was either the good guy (The World Wars or Napoleanic Conflicts) or fighting itself (The Wars of the Roses or the Civil War) rather than when we were the bad guys (The Opium Wars, our conquest of North America or the whole East India Company thing).

Really helps if you read rather than skim it.

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18 minutes ago, YukiEiriKun said:

But I was trying to say that they are in strange maelstrom where they (especially Japanese) are proud of their history, but still present themself like an losers just because of the history written by the winners.

It's a pretty objective and established fact that the Third Reich lost the war, so, presenting themselves as the losers is kind of a given, because, you know, they lost. However, I think Germany is one of the countries that put horrendous effort into researching and educating people on this period and German achievements and war crimes. And it isn't that they gloss over the achievements, rather that they don't go about glorifying them. Also because when you glorify the "achievements" of Germany in the 30s and 40s, you run risk of misrepresenting the fact that Germany lost enormous resources to mismanagement and enormous intelectual potential due to emmigration and murder.

30 minutes ago, YukiEiriKun said:

I am talking about the technical advances these two nations gave to the rest of us

Rockets are neat, but if you look at social and political sciences, Germany at the time contributed only by providing a brutal case study. While pre-WWII, you have large German names like Max Weber in the field, during and after WWII these fields were mostly developed in America (partly with input by Germans who left) and to this day is heavily influenced by them. 

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9 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Rockets are neat, but if you look at social and political sciences, Germany at the time contributed only by providing a brutal case study. While pre-WWII, you have large German names like Max Weber in the field, during and after WWII these fields were mostly developed in America (partly with input by Germans who left) and to this day is heavily influenced by them. 

Still ... without Wernher Von Braun, the USA would not have been in the moon before the Soviet Union.
Which, ironically were second just because they could not snab the best German rocket engineer.

Both USA and Soviet Union ballistic missiles AND the space programs are to German engineering.

 

DISCLAIMER: AGAIN, I am just talking about the techical advances, not about the humane misery and suffering that the war, or of any of the parties participating of the war, caused. During or past the war years.
STRICTLY talking about the TECHNICAL advances.

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7 minutes ago, YukiEiriKun said:

Still ... without Wernher Von Braun, the USA would not have been in the moon before the Soviet Union.
Which, ironically were second just because they could not snab the best German rocket engineer.

Both USA and Soviet Union ballistic missiles AND the space programs are to German engineering.

 

DISCLAIMER: AGAIN, I am just talking about the techical advances, not about the humane misery and suffering that the war, or of any of the parties participating of the war, caused. During or past the war years.
STRICTLY talking about the TECHNICAL advances.

Yeah, and that is due to rocket science. Go to the Technical Museam in Munich and you can find things about it. Just most people don't make a huge fuss about it, because frankly, while a technical advance, it's not like knowing that matters to German everyday life and if you look at technical advances in WWII, there's more important things than just rocketry. Not to mention... the Americans and Soviets used the science to fly into space and establish a nuclear threat that would shape much of the Cold war. Germany used it to ineffectively terrorise British citizens.

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In terms of recent news I think you should read this


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45747803

Quote

Osaka cuts San Francisco ties over 'comfort women' statue

 

Ofc it needs to be said that its not all japanese and people generally are aware of what happened in WW2.

Most Japanese people that I know get embarrassed every time something like this happens.

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