Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Omnichr0n

Ibuki, the weakest link of IJN Cruisers?

22 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
174 posts
2,755 battles

Hello everyone!

Out from when I started playing WoWS, I quite quickly started playing the IJN cruiser line, and finally got the last ship of them all, the Zao. 
During the "grind", there were some ups and downs, where I actually loved the Furutaka (even before the hull C upgrade), hated the Aoba, loved the Mogami, and finally got the incredible ship Zao. However, on my way up the IJN line, there has been one ship that has been utter garbage for me, the Ibuki.

As everyone knows, the Ibuki is more or less the same as the Mogami, a paper ship which can't take hits and has to use islands to hide behind and kite away from enemies. The playstyle, which I have become comfortable with when I came back to the game around summer, has given me great games in ships like Mogami, Yorck, Hipper, the french cruiser line and so on. However, I never got any of my cruiser tactics to work with the Ibuki.

At the first 12 Ibuki games, I was incredibly unlucky by getting cyclones/storms in 6 of the matches (yeah, 50% cyclones!), which gave me a rather poor introduction to the ship (as I needed to get closer in engagements to help out the team, and then you are oneshot for absolutely every BB in the game, no matter the angle you have). In the other 6 games without the storms, I had rounds with around 70k-100k  dmg done and thought that the ship seemed decent enough (although I died quite often whenever anything shot at me).

 

The next 20 battles I had however, was unbearably bad. No matter what I did, sneaking behind some island to shoot at enemies, keep at maximum distance and kite... Slowing down and moving up in speed against single BB captains,... no matter what I did, almost every volley from a BB would get a citadel on me. Heck, if I was "caught" in medium distances and angled away whilst trying to run off, or even move my front in towards the shipts from a BB, I would be instantly killed off as more than one shot would pen and citadel me. I know some of you will say "just don't broadside then", but I almost never do, and the times I do it is only when I get outflanked and have no choice but to give one BB a chance at it, or have done a rare horrible mistake and have to take my chances and run away.

It became so bad that in the very end of my grind, I found myself not firing my guns for quite a considerable amount of time, as I knew I would be instantly killed off. That is really a bad tactic with a ship type which needs to keep those guns active to be useful in a match. I got so sich of it that I just had to use 100k free XP to get past the horrible grind (as it was destroying the fun of the game entirely for me).  And straight of the bat, with the Zao, I did 150k dmg and could easily have done 50k more (but I sopped firing as it was an even match and my teammates told me to stop shoot and just flee so we could win the game the last three minutes). 

The end result of my Ibuki grind was a rather meager 50% win rate for me with an average of 56k damage, which is 16k lower than my average of Mogami (with 57 battles) and even my Emile Bertin do 9k more on average!

So, was this Ibuki grind just me being incredibly unlucky? ( I mean, the Mogami should be mostly the same, but I have a lot more success with that ship).
Could it do with a little bit more protection to make it viable again?

Could the BB players be more kind and not instantly fire at Ibukis they see, so that they don't go instinct?! 

What do you guys think? Personally I got the Zao now and kept the Mogami, so no more Ibuki on my part. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
127 posts
6,032 battles

Back in the day the ibuki was a decent ship, but it has suffered from some power creep, I would say that the cyclones are unlucky. Compared to the other ships in the line, it has the weakest gun power per tier, with 10 of the Japanese 203s that you can find in the myoko. To me, you play it like a bigger atago, you abuse the stealth, with the good rudder and fire chance, to burn and kite the enemy ships. In the ibuki, kiting is less about angling your armour to full effect, but more about reducing your target size and trying to dodge bb shells like a pro. I recently only just completed my ibuki grind about a month ago, and all I can say was its meh. I have had a lot of experience with the jap play style, with a few hundred games both in my atago and arp myoko. All in all, with its decent ap and fire chance, its cut out of the same piece of wood as the other IJN cruisers. Tier for tier it isn't as strong as its kin, but I have found it be not a bad little ship. To put my experience into numbers, stat wise I did the grind in 30 games with a 62.07% wr, with a avrg dmg of 97.6k and a pr of 2573, which is about 10k higher avrg dmg in the mogami, but 200 pr less than my mogami (22 game grind) Compared to my myoko, it was a 27k higher avrg dmg and a similar pr (17 game grind)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
141 posts
2,282 battles

I wondered why the Myoko has faster reload than the T8 and T9, while the guns are the same?

 

I find Ibuki fine with the range mod. I don’t like it, but it holds its grounds imo. Besides a gun reload buff, same level as Myoko, would be nice. Or a nerf on the Myoko...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BYOB]
Players
2,686 posts
9,840 battles
48 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

I wondered why the Myoko has faster reload than the T8 and T9, while the guns are the same?

 

I find Ibuki fine with the range mod. I don’t like it, but it holds its grounds imo. Besides a gun reload buff, same level as Myoko, would be nice. Or a nerf on the Myoko...

 

The whole IJN line is inconsistent with the gun handling.The tier 7, 8, 9 cruisers all use the 203mm/50 3rd Year Type gun. In the game the guns are on different mounts, but the differences between them are ridiculous:

Reload:

Myoko - 14s

Mogami/Ibuki - 15s

Atago - 16s

 

Turret Traverse:

Myoko - 45s

Mogami/Ibuki - 30s

Atago - 29,03s

 

This means that the T8 premium has the worst reload and the T7 silver ship battleship level of turret traverse. Neither of the ships in the line deserves a large nerf, they all are either middle of the pack or worse.

 

Here's the list of changes that would improve the ships:

Myoko - turret traverse buff to 30s, reload nerf to 15s.

Mogami - no change.

Ibuki - reload buff to 14s

Atago - reload buff to 14,5s.

 

Reasons for the changes:

Myoko uses the mod. C turrets, which predate the other cruisers turrets. This means that it shouldn't have a better reload than them. Mogami is good where it is.

Atago and Ibuki turrets are of the same mod. E and should have the best stats in the line before the Zao. Atago's large buff offsets the bad turret placement and the fact that currently it's the worst T8 cruiser. The buff to the Ibuki would help improve the ship and make it more distinct compared with the Mogami. Improving the Ibuki's reload would also lessen the huge difference between it and the Zao.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WTFNO]
[WTFNO]
Players
52 posts

Looks like a bad T9 cruiser is more of a rule than an exception. As much as I love their respective older siblings, I hated the Seattle and the Neptune with no love lost between me and the Roon. Thus far only the Donskoi proved a fun T9 cruiser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[GURKA]
[GURKA]
Players
1,145 posts
5,899 battles
3 hours ago, Aragathor said:

The whole IJN line is inconsistent with the gun handling.The tier 7, 8, 9 cruisers all use the 203mm/50 3rd Year Type gun. In the game the guns are on different mounts, but the differences between them are ridiculous:

Reload:

Myoko - 14s

Mogami/Ibuki - 15s

Atago - 16s

 

Turret Traverse:

Myoko - 45s

Mogami/Ibuki - 30s

Atago - 29,03s

 

This means that the T8 premium has the worst reload and the T7 silver ship battleship level of turret traverse. Neither of the ships in the line deserves a large nerf, they all are either middle of the pack or worse.

 

Here's the list of changes that would improve the ships:

Myoko - turret traverse buff to 30s, reload nerf to 15s.

Mogami - no change.

Ibuki - reload buff to 14s

Atago - reload buff to 14,5s.

 

Reasons for the changes:

Myoko uses the mod. C turrets, which predate the other cruisers turrets. This means that it shouldn't have a better reload than them. Mogami is good where it is.

Atago and Ibuki turrets are of the same mod. E and should have the best stats in the line before the Zao. Atago's large buff offsets the bad turret placement and the fact that currently it's the worst T8 cruiser. The buff to the Ibuki would help improve the ship and make it more distinct compared with the Mogami. Improving the Ibuki's reload would also lessen the huge difference between it and the Zao.

 

Ibuki would need faster shells

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BYOB]
Players
2,686 posts
9,840 battles
33 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Ibuki would need faster shells

It's not going to happen, unless the guns are changed to the 203mm/50 18th year type. From the Furutaka until the Ibuki the main battery uses the same guns and has the same ballistics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[GURKA]
[GURKA]
Players
1,145 posts
5,899 battles
19 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

It's not going to happen, unless the guns are changed to the 203mm/50 18th year type. From the Furutaka until the Ibuki the main battery uses the same guns and has the same ballistics.

It's an arcarde game, not that difficult to change something for balancing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
560 posts

I've been doing strangely well in the Ibuki in the Arms Race mode. Better than in random battles.

 

Maybe it's because the buffs all work well with the Ibuki?

Maybe it's because it has good concealment to start with?

Maybe I've just been lucky?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[STW]
Players
34 posts
5,072 battles

In today's games where matchmaking looks like 5DDs,2CAs,5BBs it is very difficult not to show your broadside to any BB. And yes, If any BB spot you and shot you, one citadel hit is guarantied.

This ship is just a painful grind to Zao, just like the painful grind the Izumo before the Yamato.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
174 posts
2,755 battles

Personally I don't feel like the guns are that bad with the ship (although it might need a slight buff there as well). 

It's the whole thing about the ship being instantly dead once a BB sneeze at it and one of those droplets of lead hits the ship. As every part of the ships is overmatched by any BB shell, angling or playing the ship well isn't really a thing once you are spotted. It's just a very frustrating ship to play. Some sort of added protection to the ship would make it a lot more enjoyable. Espesially if you can survive a little bit more with angling at distance.

Maybe that is the Wargaming tactic though, make people use their free XP at tier 9 (and maybe spend some doubloons on getting the free xp converted). I just hope that the Roon and Buffalo will be more fun and something I can enjoy.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SOCKS]
Players
661 posts
5,238 battles

Both Mogami (at least with the 203mms) and Ibuki need a huge reload nerf (/Edit: buff). Their trick used to be concealment over RoF. Well now their concealment can only be qualified as average while their RoF still sucks. And they're citadels built on paper with pisspoor AAA to boot. Class by class and tier by tier, I can't think of any worse ship in the game, and for sure in the T8-T10 bracket, they're just abysmal. They're just horrible and outmatched by all their peers.

Those ships have no gimmicks, no radar, no smoke, nothing, to justify that abysmal rate of fire. they have torpedoes ,sure, but even in that department they got badly powercreeped, brit cruisers are better at torpedoing stuff in general and german cruisers are much better close-in torpedo cruisers (if anything because german cruisers actually have decent protection).

Both ships suck. A LOT, and they need a really strong buff (and I mean REALLY STRONG, in the class of shaving a couple seconds off their 203mms and maybe giving them a bit extra torpedo arcs towards the front) to make them worth playing at all. Ibuki is bad, but a mogami in T10 matches (which in my experience is all that poor ship gets matchmaked into) it's nothing short of obnoxious. With 155mms it has sorts of a niche gameplay, but with those guns you need IFHE no questions asked and noone will spec IFHE only to have to pay 450 doubloons to get rid of it once they're on Ibuki, as IFHE is next to useless with 203mm guns. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MUMMY]
Beta Tester
1,278 posts
4,992 battles

Ruddershift Mogami with a dedicated IFHE captain is pretty good tbh.

 

Ibuki, well I never liked the IBuki. It's not awful, it is a stealthy 203 mm armed cruiser with great torps so there is that. It's just not that big of a step up from the Mogami as the only things you gain is range and a heal (ok it sounds like much but it really isn't). It is just an underwhelming cruiser. Mogami with 155 and IFHE can put out some outstanding DPM and is really nimble and you can use those torps a lot mroe since the playstyle promotes it. Ibuki spams HE at range, and that is pretty much it. You are still flimsy and the only redeeming factor is range and a heal.

 

On a side note, the weird reload progression is probably a relic from the Beta. In the Beta the Myoko used to be tier 8 and the Mogami tier 7. They then switched the tiers but barely changed anything. So the Myoko became top tier forever and the Mogami sat in a corner and cried if you put the 203 mm guns on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
12 posts
2,686 battles

Haha, I just had a match with Ibuki where I think I caused more damage to my team than the enemy xd

Is there a chance they will buff it somewhat in the near future (as they buffed the USN cruisers), or I just should just sell it?

 

MEzrEMG.png

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MUMMY]
Beta Tester
1,278 posts
4,992 battles
29 minutes ago, allnan said:

 

Is there a chance they will buff it somewhat in the near future (as they buffed the USN cruisers), or I just should just sell it?

Don't sell it, go through it. While it is flimsy you do learn how the Zao plays. And the Zao is 100% worth the grind, and everything you learn in the Ibuki can be put to much better use in the Zao due to usable armor and fantastic guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
12 posts
2,686 battles
19 hours ago, ollonborre said:

Don't sell it, go through it. While it is flimsy you do learn how the Zao plays. And the Zao is 100% worth the grind, and everything you learn in the Ibuki can be put to much better use in the Zao due to usable armor and fantastic guns.

On paper though I can't see those fantastic guns. Sure it has 19% fire chance and 3400/5400 max damage, but also 36 sec turret 180 Degree Turn Time (I am allergic to slow turning turrets) and 13,7 sec reload time (14,385 sec with MBM2 for me to fix up turret turning), which is the slowest of all T10 cruisers (some even fire 3-4 salvos in this time).

Armor, well nobody has good armor at T10, BB-s pen everything with ease.

Also the ship has no radar.

 

I am not trying to get my hands on every T10 cruiser ever, only one, if WG decided to pull the same sht as before that you can only do something if you have T10. And since I am only anywhere near the top with USN and the japans, Des Moines seems like the better ship on paper, also it kind of looks like a Baltimore (my current favourite ship) with twice as fast loading speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DDR]
[DDR]
Beta Tester
141 posts
3,314 battles
On 11.10.2018 at 2:06 PM, RAMJB said:

Both Mogami (at least with the 203mms) and Ibuki need a huge reload nerf.

Wait they suck but need reload nerf?:Smile-_tongue:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BYOB]
Players
2,686 posts
9,840 battles
12 minutes ago, allnan said:

On paper though I can't see those fantastic guns. Sure it has 19% fire chance and 3400/5400 max damage, but also 36 sec turret 180 Degree Turn Time (I am allergic to slow turning turrets) and 13,7 sec reload time (14,385 sec with MBM2 for me to fix up turret turning), which is the slowest of all T10 cruisers (some even fire 3-4 salvos in this time).

Armor, well nobody has good armor at T10, BB-s pen everything with ease.

Also the ship has no radar.

 

I am not trying to get my hands on every T10 cruiser ever, only one, if WG decided to pull the same sht as before that you can only do something if you have T10. And since I am only anywhere near the top with USN and the japans, Des Moines seems like the better ship on paper, also it kind of looks like a Baltimore (my current favourite ship) with twice as fast loading speed.

That's because you see only the paper stats. The guns on the Zao are very powerful. Their accuracy is almost pinpoint, with the legendary upgrade you can get salvos where you get 9 hits or more against targets over 10km.

Thanks to the combination of stealth and accuracy you can ambush and delete destroyers in one or two hits. The turret traverse and slow reload are there to balance that.

You ignored the powerful torpedo armament, which after the recent buff fires 24k torpedoes with 12km range while you have 9,7km concealment.

The armor on the Zao is weird, contrary to other T10 cruisers the sides aren't fully straight but strongly concave at the bow up to 1/3 of the hull. The rest isn't straight either compared to ships like Henri IV or Hindenburg. This leads to weird shell interactions when hit, making ricochets happen a bit more often if you are angled. And BBs a t T10 can't pen everything, an angled ship still causes autobounces.

Radar isn't everything, Zao compensates it well with other strengths like stealth and maneuverability.

 

The only real weakness of the Zao is the ridiculously low HP pool. It has less HP than the smaller Minotaur, as it got nerfed when stealth firing was still a thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SOCKS]
Players
661 posts
5,238 battles
3 hours ago, Shrez said:

Wait they suck but need reload nerf?:Smile-_tongue:

lulz. Buff. I meant buff. Jeeze, what was I thinking in. Probably Harugumo. Or Worcester XD.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SOCKS]
Players
661 posts
5,238 battles
On 12/10/2018 at 9:57 PM, ollonborre said:

Ruddershift Mogami with a dedicated IFHE captain is pretty good tbh.

 

1

 

Maybe. But even then, with a captain you're using to get to the high tiers it utterly sucks. Unless you bite the bullet and are ready to pay some hundreds of doubloons for a respect the second you jump to Ibuki.

And even then, I don't really see how it can be "pretty good"... 15 guns with a reload of 10 seconds...out of the 152mm cruisers Cleveland has it beaten on everything but alpha damage and torpedoes, and it happens pretty much the same with the Chapayev. Less guns on both but higher RoF means higher DPM. I won't even mention the radar because even without it both cruisers are simply better. Kutuzov I won't mention here either because that thing is simply insane.

of the others, Baltimore makes tomato sauce with it, Martel is a far better long range hitter and almost as good as a firestarter... and Hipper is much better than what people give it credit for (something able to yolorush anything with 15'' guns while bowtanking has a lot of merit to itself).

And Edinburgh won't start fires, but we all know british cruisers and why they're good.

 

With both 203mm guns and 152mm guns, Mogami is the worst T8 cruiser. It's pretty much a fact.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MUMMY]
Beta Tester
1,278 posts
4,992 battles
12 hours ago, RAMJB said:

 

With both 203mm guns and 152mm guns, Mogami is the worst T8 cruiser. It's pretty much a fact.

 

I don't disagree. If I want to play a powerful 203 armed cruiser I go for the Charles Martel, and if I want a 155 armed cruiser I go for the Cleveland. The Mogami is still a fun cruiser IMO but what it needs in order to work is a survivability buff. It has firepower in droves but offers no utility and takes citadel damage like almost no other ship in the game. If they could make the citadel smaller or make sure so that you don't get overmatched by everything then perhaps the Mogami can find its niche.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
12 posts
2,686 battles
On 2018. 10. 13. at 6:53 PM, Aragathor said:

That's because you see only the paper stats. The guns on the Zao are very powerful. Their accuracy is almost pinpoint, with the legendary upgrade you can get salvos where you get 9 hits or more against targets over 10km.

Thanks to the combination of stealth and accuracy you can ambush and delete destroyers in one or two hits. The turret traverse and slow reload are there to balance that.

You ignored the powerful torpedo armament, which after the recent buff fires 24k torpedoes with 12km range while you have 9,7km concealment.

The armor on the Zao is weird, contrary to other T10 cruisers the sides aren't fully straight but strongly concave at the bow up to 1/3 of the hull. The rest isn't straight either compared to ships like Henri IV or Hindenburg. This leads to weird shell interactions when hit, making ricochets happen a bit more often if you are angled. And BBs a t T10 can't pen everything, an angled ship still causes autobounces.

Radar isn't everything, Zao compensates it well with other strengths like stealth and maneuverability.

 

The only real weakness of the Zao is the ridiculously low HP pool. It has less HP than the smaller Minotaur, as it got nerfed when stealth firing was still a thing.

Yeah, the armor is indeed interesting, it is considerably harder to score citadel on Zao, because of the strange citadel placement (maybe just for me, cuz I don't know where to aim).

About the pinpoint accuracy guns,, well, to be honest, I can't aim xd

Torpedoes are kinda meh on all IJN cruisers. I had a shitton of games with Mogami, it was the rarest of occasions when I hit anything with torpedoes.

And if you are not annoyed out of the world with destroyers/brit cruisers smoking or the very existence of cyclons then good to be you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×