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Grouchy_Canuck

Japanese Destroyers

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So new player here,reached tier 5 ...........line spits in 2

what's are the differences in the lines, been looking at tech tree they seem about the same, so I must be missing something

thanks in advance

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You have a gunfocused line (Harugomo) and then the torpedo focused line (Shimakaze). The gun focused line is arguably the most consistent line of the 2, and from tier 8 and upwards you get a serious amount of Dakka. Decent torps, scary gunpower, fairly sluggish.

 

The torp line still has some gems despite all the nerfs. Fubuki is still from what I can gather a good little boat, and the Kagero and Yugumo are not halfbad either. The problem is the Shimakaze and WG's hate for IJN torpedoes for some reason. You have at first glance the most potent torpedoes in the game, with high damage, often high number of them, good speeds and range.

 

But the detection range of the torpedoes are in general garbage so they are pretty easy to dodge. And when the torpedoes fail you have no meaningful gunpower to rely on and while you are stealthy you can only really cap empty cap points and spot. Meanwhile the other tier 10 DD's have better gun power, useful torpedoes and better utility.

 

Honestly the gunboat line is the one I would recommend, and I don't think that will change until something drastic happens to the Shimakaze I'm afraid.

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1 minute ago, ollonborre said:

You have a gunfocused line (Harugomo) and then the torpedo focused line (Shimakaze). The gun focused line is arguably the most consistent line of the 2, and from tier 8 and upwards you get a serious amount of Dakka. Decent torps, scary gunpower, fairly sluggish.

 

The torp line still has some gems despite all the nerfs. Fubuki is still from what I can gather a good little boat, and the Kagero and Yugumo are not halfbad either. The problem is the Shimakaze and WG's hate for IJN torpedoes for some reason. You have at first glance the most potent torpedoes in the game, with high damage, often high number of them, good speeds and range.

 

But the detection range of the torpedoes are in general garbage so they are pretty easy to dodge. And when the torpedoes fail you have no meaningful gunpower to rely on and while you are stealthy you can only really cap empty cap points and spot. Meanwhile the other tier 10 DD's have better gun power, useful torpedoes and better utility.

 

Honestly the gunboat line is the one I would recommend, and I don't think that will change until something drastic happens to the Shimakaze I'm afraid.

 

I know it has been discussed over and over but it doesn’t get to my brain why Uhr by far scariest Torpedo (at least by factor two) are the least useful in this game. 

 

I guess it’s called balance-failure 

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3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

I know it has been discussed over and over but it doesn’t get to my brain why Uhr by far scariest Torpedo (at least by factor two) are the least useful in this game. 

 

I guess it’s called balance-failure 

I know right. And when people have been yelling for torp buffs for over a year they did actually give it a small detection buff to the 12 km torps from 1.9 to 1.7 km.. And then 2 months later we get Pan Asian DD's.

 

Go figure.

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Alle 29/9/2018 alle 16:17, 1MajorKoenig ha scritto:

 

I know it has been discussed over and over but it doesn’t get to my brain why Uhr by far scariest Torpedo (at least by factor two) are the least useful in this game. 

 

I guess it’s called balance-failure 

It's called Shimakaze is too popular. Shimakaze appeals to a player base that is low skill, doesn't know how to handle anything but long range torpedoing and to avoid them growing too powerful and maybe discourage them from playing the ship, it got nerfed into the ground. Random potato being unaware of what stats mean, continues playing the ship, because 15 torps must be good and they lost before anyway. They pley4phun after all. And WG doesn't want to address the fundamental playstyle of Shimakaze being uncompetitive. Also, I saw some folks *edited* argue that you shouldn't change Shimakaze from being garbage due to its playstyle, because if it was closer to the others, diversity might be lost. So, Shima will remain in the dumps. At least it got best concealment at its tier... well, till next patch.

 

Also, I'm not sure if IJN gunboat line is really great first line of DDs, given how radically they differ from normal DDs. If you don't aim for higher than T7, main line isn't bad. Other nations are definitely better for learning proper DDs though.

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Alle 29/9/2018 alle 16:29, Riselotte ha scritto:

It's called Shimakaze is too popular. Shimakaze appeals to a player base that is low skill, doesn't know how to handle anything but long range torpedoing and to avoid them growing too powerful and maybe discourage them from playing the ship, it got nerfed into the ground. Random potato being unaware of what stats mean, continues playing the ship, because 15 torps must be good and they lost before anyway. They pley4phun after all. And WG doesn't want to address the fundamental playstyle of Shimakaze being uncompetitive. Also, I saw some folks *edited* argue that you shouldn't change Shimakaze from being garbage due to its playstyle, because if it was closer to the others, diversity might be lost. So, Shima will remain in the dumps. At least it got best concealment at its tier... well, till next patch.

 

Also, I'm not sure if IJN gunboat line is really great first line of DDs, given how radically they differ from normal DDs. If you don't aim for higher than T7, main line isn't bad. Other nations are definitely better for learning proper DDs though.

 

Seriously....? It is popular it needs to be bad..?! Hope you find the error in your statement yourself.

 

To make it really obvious for you mate: if the fastest ship IRL goes only have the speed compared to all others in game it feels plain wrong and counter intuitive. The game values don’t need to be historical or accurate but they should capture the overall characteristics. 

 

And the way WG balanced the IJN DDs and the long lance Torpedo is pathetic. And piss poor game design in my opinion. 

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3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Seriously....? It is popular it needs to be bad..?! Hope you find the error in your statement yourself.

 

To make it really obvious for you mate: if the fastest ship IRL goes only have the speed compared to all others in game it feels plain wrong and counter intuitive. The game values don’t need to be historical or accurate but they should capture the overall characteristics. 

 

And the way WG balanced the IJN DDs and the long lance Torpedo is pathetic. And piss poor game design in my opinion. 

Most players who have an idea of how to play know Shimakaze is garbage. Yet, it is the T10 DD with most games played. Similarly, the rest of the line is very popular, because the idea of just spamming torps from long range and getting devastating strikes that way without risking the ship appeals to a certain demographic. And everytime the matter comes up about improving Shima, it is pointed out, that the ship and its current configurations and stats are wildly popular, so no need to address it. WG openly stated that the 20 km torps might be terrible, but as long as they remained popular, they see no reason to change it.

 

Meanwhile, there are also opposite cases, like for example Grozovoi, which received a buff for the expressed reason that the ship was not popular enough. Not underperforming, just not being played. And feel free to point out how terrible the reasoning is, but it isn't me coming up with this crap. I'm just reiterating what the people in charge tell us.

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31 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Most players who have an idea of how to play know Shimakaze is garbage. Yet, it is the T10 DD with most games played. Similarly, the rest of the line is very popular, because the idea of just spamming torps from long range and getting devastating strikes that way without risking the ship appeals to a certain demographic. And everytime the matter comes up about improving Shima, it is pointed out, that the ship and its current configurations and stats are wildly popular, so no need to address it. WG openly stated that the 20 km torps might be terrible, but as long as they remained popular, they see no reason to change it.

 

Meanwhile, there are also opposite cases, like for example Grozovoi, which received a buff for the expressed reason that the ship was not popular enough. Not underperforming, just not being played. And feel free to point out how terrible the reasoning is, but it isn't me coming up with this crap. I'm just reiterating what the people in charge tell us.

 

...which I am well aware of and I disagree with. Grozovoi is unpopular because it is some unknown paper Design nobody gives a damn about. 

 

The IJN DDs are not popular BECAUSE of the way they are implemented but DESPITE the fact 

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5 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

...which I am well aware of and I disagree with. Grozovoi is unpopular because it is some unknown paper Design nobody gives a damn about. 

 

The IJN DDs are not popular BECAUSE of the way they are implemented but DESPITE.

Yeah, but...

37 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Seriously....? It is popular it needs to be bad..?! Hope you find the error in your statement yourself.

...makes it sound as if you think that's just my statement. I'm just pointing out what is being said, not what I think would be appropriate. Because, let's face it, I can complain all day about IJN DDs having issues staying competitive and it still wouldn't change a thing, because my opinion isn't what decides game balance.

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4 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Yeah, but...

...makes it sound as if you think that's just my statement. I'm just pointing out what is being said, not what I think would be appropriate. Because, let's face it, I can complain all day about IJN DDs having issues staying competitive and it still wouldn't change a thing, because my opinion isn't what decides game balance.

 

I wasn’t aware you were just quoting WG instead of voicing your own opinion - indeed. My “I am aware of” was pointing at WG’s standpoint in this matter.

 

I am not even talking about whether the ships are competitive or not. For me the logical break between “being known for incredible advanced torpedoes” to “these laughable fishes are only good for punishing BB bobs who don’t know that A and D turn the ship” is what’s unacceptable. 

 

If if you want torps to go 16km max than cut everything else down to 8km. Bamm - no stupid overbuffed Gearing torps anymore

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As mentioned above there are major differences between the lines.

 

"Torpedoboat line" that ends with Shimakaze focuses on high-damage torpedoes, speed, and low detection values.

They are really good scout boats, and they excel at defending the location, and contesting capture points - that is if you know what you`re doing, because they can`t really win an even gunfight against any other ship until tiers 9&10.

 

"Gunboat line" that ends with Harugumo focus on guns, however they play like a torpedoboat until tier 8 (Akizuki) - captain retraining is adviced at this point due to a massive shift in gameplay.

IJN gunboat are in a really good spot now, and IMHO they are much more competitive than IJN torpedoboat line. They have great gunpower, but they suffer in terms of concealment, and torpedo reload. (they still get IJN torpedoes though)

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Am 29.9.2018 um 15:03, Grouchy_Canuck sagte:

So new player here,reached tier 5 ...........line spits in 2

what's are the differences in the lines, been looking at tech tree they seem about the same, so I must be missing something

thanks in advance

In a nutshell: they split at T5 but they change only at T8. The main line remains torpedo focused while the line with Akizuki, Kitekatze, and Harugumo is a gun boat line.

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Others have covered the key differences off admirably. For me, the 'problem' with the two lines is that both have fun ships in them, so I would suggest following both lines, at least far enough to get the 'keepers'.

 

The torp line T6 and T8 are both pretty good; Kagero has excellent stealth, and decent torps (although be mindful of the lousy detection range, as mentioned already) - she's a keeper for me (and I have both T8 premiums), although I run TRB instead of smoke, for fun (plus, radar makes T8 smoke redundant a lot of the time). T9 and T10, are both pretty meh (and the Shima LU is pretty useless), so I wouldn't bother going above T8 for this line, until/unless WG fix them.

 

The 'gunboat' line at T7 (Shiratsuyu) is glorious - it's one of the best torp boats (!) tier-for-tier in the game, mainly because it gets the absurd TRB, which enables you to chuck out an indecent number of torps (at the expense of smoke). After that, the line goes full dakka, and seems to perform very well at the moment, although they're a bit too visible for my taste (I prefer the US DDs in the T8-T10 range)...

 

Edit: try and ensure you have a decent captain (at least ten points) for all 'keeper' DDs - things like CE make a huge difference.

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Decide how you wish to play..

Fubuki (T6) is a good DD to learn from with 6.1km concealment and10km torpedoes but they are slow at 59 knots so always take that into account.

Akatsuki (T7) has good torpedoes but poor concealment and in my opinion things don't get better until T8...

 

Kagero T8 can, with the right skills, get down to 5.4km concealment. Yugumo T9 5.5km and Shimakaze T10 5.6km.

Kagero and Yugumo benefit from TRB/Torpedo Reload booster which means that they can reload their torpedoes in 8 seconds, you surrender the capability to smoke but in my opinion an IJN DD shouldn't sit.

I wouldn't mind seeing Shimakaze with TRB but can you imagine the BB cry babies after being confronted with a spread of 30 torpedoes...:cap_wander:

I play all IJN Torpedo DD's from T5 to T10 and they are all just as much fun as they were when I first got them.

 

The gunboat side from T7 Shiratsuyu has great concealment at 5.8km, has good long range torpedoes and plenty of gunfire potential.

Right now I hold Kitakaze which has reasonable to good concealment at 5.9km but your play style cannot be as with the torpedo line as she turns like a brick and you cannot charge in as you would the other line  because she just isn't fast enough to get out, even with a +5 speed flag.

The gunboats are great in taking on most enemy DD's as well in a pitched fight, if you're accuracy is good you win.. Even the Legendary Khaba can have a torrid time against Haragumo.

 

But remember, just as @Verblonde has said, you must have a captain with over 10 skills points to get the best from each ship.

 

Preventative Maintenance, Last Stand, Superintendent and Concealment Expert should be your primary skills with concealment system mod on your upgrades.

 

Try to learn the radar potential of your enemies it will keep you alive and when you run you must run looking back to your stern because you can easily dodge the worst of the enemy fire. The minute you see the flash change your direction slightly and slow your speed as most of the time the shells will miss. IJN DD's on the Kagero side do not usually do well in 1 v 1 DD scraps so avoid them at all times.

 

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Shimakaze is in first line a BB/Ca hunter and the Spotter. with 5.6 Consealment only the Gearing with leg. can go that far down. while the 20 km torps open up at 2,5 km the 12 and 8 km goes down on 1,7 km, but the lack of conesealment is compared to the super Speed of the Torps. 

 

Actually you play the shima with 9,6 km torps but lately with the radar swap of WG you best run with 12 km.  it is true that the shima need a little rework but she still can stand. wg should take away the 20 km torps, these are just plain useless and no good dd fighter actally fights with those torps... but if i think on the asashio.. 20 km deepwater hiting only bbs and cv´s and enemy dd tries to kill me with than in infight......., but people love them. but pls do not give shima deepwater torps! 

 

Shima can easyely withstand a Gearing, Z,  Yueyang it just depends how you attack and how good you are in aiming. even Khaba and Haru got already smashed infight against me.  

 

It always depends on how you fight, shima got the main gunnery on the back, so best ist to always be prepared already for showing your [edited]if you cap or go infight. Shima needs for infight lot of wasd manovers but if you hadle this, then you dont have to be afraid of the most of the other dd´s. The ding on Shima is, that you need to have a plan for attacking its not a ship where you go inside and then bam bam bam... or you play 20 km torps^^.. 

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