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thiextar

British destroyer line: Do they all get good ap?

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So i know that the current iteration of the daring gets extra good ap angles, but i dont know if that extends to the rest of the line.

 

Do all of the british destroyers get those improved ap angles, and therefore want to shoot mostly ap against most targets, or is that just for the tier 10?

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1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

No. Just T9/10.

So i wanna mostly use he on the other dds then? With the exception of using ap against broadsiding cruisers/battleships. Would ap be any good vs dds with the lower tier British dds?

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Has to be tested.

The Tier VIII has guns with more pen power, but worse penetration angles.

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Wakeful and Lightning have high Russian style AP penetration, 68mm at 10km. Use it like Kiev/Lenin etc, Wakeful can citadel tier 4 cruisers at most ranges.

Tier 5-7 have low to average penetration, 38mm at 10km. It's very useful agasint broadside superstructure and DD/CA plating. Don't try and citadel cruisers.

Daring and Jutland have average penetration, 46mm at 10km but wide 'US CA' auto bounce angles. Use over HE and agasint all plating/superstructure unless fully bow on. Don't try and citadel cruisers, even Mino.

 

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3 hours ago, thiextar said:

So i wanna mostly use he on the other dds then? With the exception of using ap against broadsiding cruisers/battleships. Would ap be any good vs dds with the lower tier British dds?

Low caliber AP (that actually arms on DD plating) can do wonders against enemy DDs (Akizuki and her higher tier sisters can often gain an additional edge in a DD duel this way) but it's harder and less consistent - you get overpens if you hit the wrong part of the ship and bounces if the enemy angles. I'd expect British AP to be pretty situational in this sense - a broadside DD that can't really angle (island blocking the turn, accelerating from full stop after just being lit up by Radar, corraled by torps) could eat a lot of damage if you aim well. HE should usually be the superior choice, though, for the sake of consistency.

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So if the lower tier RN destroyers have normal AP, does this mean that IFHE is needed to make them work? If so it could be a pain to respec the captain for T9 and 10, kinda like how it was for Akizuki when the line ended at T8, or 155mm Mogami.

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7 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Low caliber AP (that actually arms on DD plating) can do wonders against enemy DDs (Akizuki and her higher tier sisters can often gain an additional edge in a DD duel this way) but it's harder and less consistent - you get overpens if you hit the wrong part of the ship and bounces if the enemy angles. I'd expect British AP to be pretty situational in this sense - a broadside DD that can't really angle (island blocking the turn, accelerating from full stop after just being lit up by Radar, corraled by torps) could eat a lot of damage if you aim well. HE should usually be the superior choice, though, for the sake of consistency.

The RN 113mm AP is short-fused, meaning it only needs 0.01s to arm rather than the 0.033s of regular AP, so you shouldn't get as many over-pens when firing at other DDs. Even with IFHE, those guns can't pen 25mm plating (without it you can't even pen other DDs) so with that and the improved ricochet angles in mind, it would seem the top two RN DDs will be AP monsters and the HE will only be useful for setting fires.

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17 minutes ago, Centurion_1711 said:

So if the lower tier RN destroyers have normal AP, does this mean that IFHE is needed to make them work? If so it could be a pain to respec the captain for T9 and 10, kinda like how it was for Akizuki when the line ended at T8, or 155mm Mogami.

you don't need it, you penetrate 20 mm with your 120mm gun, and even tier 10 dd plating is 19 mms ( tier 7 and below 16mms)

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18 minutes ago, Strappster said:

The RN 113mm AP is short-fused, meaning it only needs 0.01s to arm rather than the 0.033s of regular AP, so you shouldn't get as many over-pens when firing at other DDs. Even with IFHE, those guns can't pen 25mm plating (without it you can't even pen other DDs) so with that and the improved ricochet angles in mind, it would seem the top two RN DDs will be AP monsters and the HE will only be useful for setting fires.

I was talking about the lower tiers - the top two, with improved ricochet angles, are pretty obviously AP-focused.

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43 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

you don't need it, you penetrate 20 mm with your 120mm gun, and even tier 10 dd plating is 19 mms ( tier 7 and below 16mms)

Firstly, the tier 9 and 10 RN DDs use 113mm guns, not 120mm. Secondly, 120mm HE doesn't penetrate 20mm armour, 20mm is the shatter threshold and the armour has to be thinner than that for it to pen.

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10 minutes ago, Strappster said:

Firstly, the tier 9 and 10 RN DDs use 113mm guns, not 120mm. Secondly, 120mm HE doesn't penetrate 20mm armour, 20mm is the shatter threshold and the armour has to be thinner than that for it to pen.

he asked about tier 5-8 dds, and i know that 20mm of pen means that they can pen 19mms,  and it still means that they can pen all the dds ( but the part of 50mm that khaba has).

I hate when you have to be so nazi about something, when it doesn't change the outcome

 

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9 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

he asked about tier 5-8 dds, and i know that 20mm of pen means that they can pen 19mms,  and it still means that they can pen all the dds ( but the part of 50mm that khaba has).

I hate when you have to be so nazi about something, when it doesn't change the outcome

 

You're right, it doesn't change the outcome - you're still wrong to state that 120mm guns have 20mm penetration with HE.  Sure, I could have acknowledged that the majority of DD plating is 19mm thick but that merely perpetuates the misconception that regular HE penetration is 1/6th of gun calibre.

 

I hate when people throw insults instead of simply saying, "yeah, I meant that". It's lazy and demonstrates an inability to communicate in a mature manner by acknowledging one's mistakes.

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Presumably the Lightning should as well, as she has the heaviest weight (62pound) shells of the entire line.

 

EDIT: WowsWiki says she does indeed.

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11 hours ago, Flavio1997 said:

he asked about tier 5-8 dds, and i know that 20mm of pen means that they can pen 19mms,  and it still means that they can pen all the dds ( but the part of 50mm that khaba has).

I hate when you have to be so nazi about something, when it doesn't change the outcome

 

What about the 21mm parts of the gearing? Forget about that? :)

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12 hours ago, Strappster said:

Firstly, the tier 9 and 10 RN DDs use 113mm guns, not 120mm. Secondly, 120mm HE doesn't penetrate 20mm armour, 20mm is the shatter threshold and the armour has to be thinner than that for it to pen.

but if you use the captains skill of plus 35% pen, would it not pen it then using he?

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14 hours ago, Flavio1997 said:

you don't need it, you penetrate 20 mm with your 120mm gun, and even tier 10 dd plating is 19 mms ( tier 7 and below 16mms)

With some exceptions.

14 hours ago, eliastion said:

I was talking about the lower tiers - the top two, with improved ricochet angles, are pretty obviously AP-focused.

To be fair, the pen at extreme ranges falls off there too and you'd just target superstructures to avoid shatters. AP pen at max range is 34 mm for Daring, which any angled 32 mm plate is likely to shatter. Also a reason why not to take aFT on these ships.

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6 hours ago, Riselotte said:

To be fair, the pen at extreme ranges falls off there too and you'd just target superstructures to avoid shatters. AP pen at max range is 34 mm for Daring, which any angled 32 mm plate is likely to shatter. Also a reason why not to take aFT on these ships.

Then again - Daring is a ship that shouldn't normally be engaging at the extreme range in the first place. Her shells aren't very fast and her most terrifying feature is appearing in front of enemy DD at point blank range while carrying Harugumo's firepower, good-luck-trying-to-torp-me short-range hydro and decent maneuverability on top of all this. Lobbing some shells into enemy BB superstructures is just an afterthought when all the enemy DDs are dead and you still need some pastime for the remainder of the match :Smile-_tongue:

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22 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Then again - Daring is a ship that shouldn't normally be engaging at the extreme range in the first place. Her shells aren't very fast and her most terrifying feature is appearing in front of enemy DD at point blank range while carrying Harugumo's firepower, good-luck-trying-to-torp-me short-range hydro and decent maneuverability on top of all this. Lobbing some shells into enemy BB superstructures is just an afterthought when all the enemy DDs are dead and you still need some pastime for the remainder of the match :Smile-_tongue:

and then ou remember you have torps

 

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