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Milan_G_

new HEROIC achievement : worcester killed by planes :DDD

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suggestion to do a new medal. :cap_book::cap_haloween:

or at least:

 

do a hall of fame  CV captains, they did it :DDD

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AP bombs: Bait DFAA -> pull out on confirmation (drop circle enlarged), wait 40 seconds -> go back in and nuke the sucker.

 

Same for Des Moines, very satisfying to do that in a bottom tier Lexington. The circumstance that most of those cruiser like to hug islands near objectives just means you basically never have to drop a manouvering target which makes it even easier.

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I oneshoted two wochsters last week ....

 

Both players where so enganged in scoope that they didnt even turn on def AA or turn or did anything ....

They ignored 14 AP dive bombers and died :cap_haloween:

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19 minutes ago, Seeigel said:

Did the same to a Minotaur.. in my Graf Zeppelin. :cap_cool:

that monstrosity doesn't count

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2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

AP bombs: Bait DFAA -> pull out on confirmation (drop circle enlarged), wait 40 seconds -> go back in and nuke the sucker.

 

Same for Des Moines, very satisfying to do that in a bottom tier Lexington. The circumstance that most of those cruiser like to hug islands near objectives just means you basically never have to drop a manouvering target which makes it even easier.

Thats what I do when I have no other choice but to attack a ship with defensive fire.
However, I DID found a couple of motherfriggers who didn't activated it's defaa until the planes were close to his ship.

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3 hours ago, Aotearas said:

AP bombs: Bait DFAA -> pull out on confirmation (drop circle enlarged), wait 40 seconds -> go back in and nuke the sucker.

 

Same for Des Moines, very satisfying to do that in a bottom tier Lexington. The circumstance that most of those cruiser like to hug islands near objectives just means you basically never have to drop a manouvering target which makes it even easier.

Exactly. Even without AP bombs it's quite doable after baiting (well, or forcing) defAA. 

And CV players still whine about "why you break my perfectly balanced gameplay with that CV rework! It's all skill! What can I do against AA, huh?! huh?!" :cap_popcorn:

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52 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

 

Exactly. Even without AP bombs it's quite doable after baiting (well, or forcing) defAA. 

And CV players still whine about "why you break my perfectly balanced gameplay with that CV rework! It's all skill! What can I do against AA, huh?! huh?!" :cap_popcorn:

If worchester eat the bait is his fault also ap bombs are broken and noone deny that 

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4 minutes ago, Torped1ne said:

If worchester eat the bait is his fault also ap bombs are broken and noone deny that 

Yep.

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3 hours ago, EdiJo said:

Exactly. Even without AP bombs it's quite doable after baiting (well, or forcing) defAA. 

 

"Baiting" in itself implies a horrible misplay, I hope you realize that.

Worcester obliterates entire strikes within seconds so all you need to do is wait for aircraft to cross the ~4km line. This won't give them any chance to turn around nor will it allow them to strike you effectively.

 

No one denies that AP bombs are broken. Well, no one sane anyway.

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2 hours ago, Torped1ne said:

If worchester eat the bait is his fault also ap bombs are broken and noone deny that 

You can equally well write that if CV doesn't turn his planes without losing most of them it's his fault :cap_popcorn:

 

14 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

"Baiting" in itself implies a horrible misplay, I hope you realize that.

Worcester obliterates entire strikes within seconds so all you need to do is wait for aircraft to cross the ~4km line. This won't give them any chance to turn around nor will it allow them to strike you effectively.

 

No one denies that AP bombs are broken. Well, no one sane anyway.

One OP vs another OP... 

One squad from T10 CV is enough to cripple or wreck the cruiser which has no defAA, and not only AP bombs can do that, especially if we're talking about "dug in" semi-stationary US radar cruiser hiding behind an island.

And CV has more than one. 

All this "depend on a consumable" balancing model is impossibru to work...

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10 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

One squad from T10 CV is enough to cripple or wreck the cruiser which has no defAA

 

Sending only one squad against a Worcester (and against most other ships) is often suicide in itself.

 

10 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

All this "depend on a consumable" balancing model is impossibru to work.

 

Indeed. Balancing around a "lol-I-win-button" along with tons of upgrades/skills you have to take to counter one of the supposed fundamental mechanics was always going to end in failure one way or another.

Not that this should be news to WG tho considering how often this has been pointed out. Lets hope the rework does better in this regard if nothing else.

On the other hand that'd be WG learning from their mistakes. We all know how likely that is going to be.

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9 hours ago, Aotearas said:

AP bombs: Bait DFAA -> pull out on confirmation (drop circle enlarged), wait 40 seconds -> go back in and nuke the sucker.

 

Same for Des Moines, very satisfying to do that in a bottom tier Lexington. The circumstance that most of those cruiser like to hug islands near objectives just means you basically never have to drop a manouvering target which makes it even easier.

tenor.gif

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28 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

tenor.gif

Uh great, now I will undoubtedly remember this when AP bombing stuff ... you've lewded my air strikes forever!

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15 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Sending only one squad against a Worcester (and against most other ships) is often suicide in itself.

 

In the same above YT vid at 12:41 you have an example of a single squad attacking TWO Woosters with quite a success.

 

a "suicide" after dropping is "the sacrifice CV is willing to make" ;)

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1 hour ago, EdiJo said:

a "suicide" after dropping is "the sacrifice CV is willing to make" ;

Do keep in mind this is ranked, i.e.: only 7 ships per side.

 

In a random 12 vs 12 game sacrificing squadrons for kills can bite you in the arse real quick after you've started to run out of aircraft and there's still half the enemy team floating and suddenly you got nothing to attack them with. At such an attrition rate even a Midway is soon going to run out of reserves.

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1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

Do keep in mind this is ranked, i.e.: only 7 ships per side.

 

In a random 12 vs 12 game sacrificing squadrons for kills can bite you in the arse real quick after you've started to run out of aircraft and there's still half the enemy team floating and suddenly you got nothing to attack them with. At such an attrition rate even a Midway is soon going to run out of reserves.

meh, I think any CV player would at any time trade a squadron for half of a Wooster :cap_cool:

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On 27/09/2018 at 12:40 PM, Aotearas said:

AP bombs: Bait DFAA -> pull out on confirmation (drop circle enlarged), wait 40 seconds -> go back in and nuke the sucker.

 

Same for Des Moines, very satisfying to do that in a bottom tier Lexington. The circumstance that most of those cruiser like to hug islands near objectives just means you basically never have to drop a manouvering target which makes it even easier.

 

That sounds so easy, but the thing is, the only people this works on in Random/Ranked are never spec'd as Full AA* because the Meta hurts them to spec a ship that way. These are AA cruisers and really should be spec'd as such but WG's fumbling of the meta means that AA ships are very rarely used as actual AA ships any more (more Anti-DD and Anti-BB HE spam), which is why I like Co-Op where ships can be specced as designed without issue.

 

Anyway, against a Full AA DM or Worcester, the method above doesn't work as well because the "non-DFAA" aura for those is 950-1100 DPS, which is more than a Kutuzov or Atlanta when they are using Def AA, and is enough to kill 1-2 TX CV squadrons without ever using DFAA. So you can't really "bait" the DFAA against a good player unless you use 3+ squadrons, and all 3 will die leaving your remaining AP bombers to still face upto1100 DPS which, again, can kill 1-2 squadrons at a time.

 

If you try this on my DM/Worc (Full AA) for example, I would leave my normal AA to shoot down any squadrons used as bait and only use DFAA once you get within 4km, trapping your planes (do I run away to save planes or keep flying into this) whilst the 2400-2900 DPS works them over for 30/50 seconds, like this -

 

1 Squad - Normal AA - You lose Squad

2 Squad - Normal AA - You lose 2 Squads

3 Squad - Normal AA then DFAA at 4km - You lose 3 Squads

Send every squad in one huge rush - Normal AA then DEF AA at 5km - You lose 3+ Squads and who ever is left still has to re-attack through Norm AA. The only way I see it is too "bait" Def AA and lose planes then respawn those planes ASAP to get every squad over the ship together before the 2min cool-down finishes, but even manoeuvring/RNG can help there.

 

*Full AA - BFT/AFT/Man AA/Superintendent/JoaT captain skills, AA and JoaT Signal and 3x AA Upgrades in Slots 1-3-6 - Option to use Module to extend DFAA time to 50 sec.

 

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25 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

meh, I think any CV player would at any time trade a squadron for half of a Wooster :cap_cool:

Depends on what else is on the enemy line-up.

 

All I'm saying is that whilst that most certainly is a good trade in Ranked, it could look drastically different in a normal random match.

 

15 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

 

*snip*

Might or might not. I've not yet run into any full AA spec cruisers that can run DFAA.

I can only extrapolate from the small number of times I've run into a troll AA build Minotaur and whilst that certainly chewed through my aircraft (tier VIII planes at the time though) the bigger difficulty than pure AA was that it's hard to gauge the save distance when it's in smoke and thus aircraft accidentally entering its AA range.

 

I'd figure that a Worcester/Des Moines would still be a OSK for two AP DB squadrons without DFAA. Worcester might actually do the trick IF she's also specced for Manual AA but that would be extremely rare to see as you'd have to sacrifice either CA, AFT or IFHE for that and the least hurtful pick of ditching AFT would mean less time spend in either of the high dps auras, so unless a Worcester ditches CE or IFHE in favour of full AA performance it still shouldn't be safe from AP drops without DFAA.

 

But at this point this is pure speculation unless someone wants to test that out in training room.

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15 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

But at this point this is pure speculation unless someone wants to test that out in training room.

 

Thats is problem really, 99.9% of the time you'll run into the scenario you described where your CV is against Non-AA specced AA ships, which is just down to the Meta and WG's handling of it.

 

However, post AA/CVV rebuild it'll be interesting to see how much the meta changes regarding AA ships.

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6 hours ago, EdiJo said:

meh, I think any CV player would at any time trade a squadron for half of a Wooster :cap_cool:

 

No, they would not.

You see, a lot of that bomb damage is actually healable. Such a strike would be thoroughly ineffective and is thus a failure. It's a good trade only in the context of ranked.

 

Besides, RNG is a cruel mistress. Just yesterday I murdered a single Midway squad within seconds in my Worcester alone. And no, I don't run anything beyond AFT + AA range nor did I waste DFAA on it.

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