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Air_Cheese

"Selfish" Khabarovsk in Rank Season 10

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Hello to whom is interested in this topic,

 

I played only Khabarovsk in this season and I just finished my rank last night. "Selfish" is the most common comment from teammates.

Started with R13 cuz i got R1 in last season.

My final results are: 128 battles, 85 wins, 43 loses and I saved 3 stars in loses only. My every stats beside wr are lower than averages.

image.thumb.png.4fd47e7e38a517b8ea3e864c3e77546b.png

 

I kept my play-style same as previous season (mostly Khaba wr around 60%): caping and firing on DDs and CAs.

Was struggling a bit between R6 and R5, otherwise constantly going upward.

 

BTW, the overall server win-rate for khaba is not below 50%.

image.thumb.png.eaf8fc99006425b8936286a88f6c8293.png

 

Here are a few points that I want to share with other Khabarovsk Player:

 

The ship itself

The only disadvantage is concealment. Any other bits will more or less superior to other DDs. 

(even the 53knots torp will remain in water long enough to hit a chasing ship.)

I go with 19 skill captain, heal built.

 

The playing style

“知己知彼 百战不殆” - Sunzi's Art of War 孫子兵法

It means: Know yourself and know your enemy, and you will never be defeated. I did check stats before game started but I wouldn't share to the team. 

 

It's easy to win when I know where is every of the other enemy ships. Then i just wait for the opportunity to do my job.

The radio location is the most gain in Khabarovsk. Knowing where is the devastating enemy ships, where are my targets and most importantly, where do they go.

Then, its quite simple to play this ship, no scare of radar, no scare of most CAs and avoiding hotspot. 

I didn't fire constantly on BB, I think being an invisible ship will have more influence to enemy (DD's) strategy other than my little dmg to a healthy BB.

It is all about patience and awareness.

 

People might curious how do i due with bad concealment.

It's bad, but I could still out-spot all CA and BB in a relatively safe distance for Khabarovsk.

I went to the further cap only, which will have less enemy ships to support their DD. If it is open water, then i will chase the dd.

Rarely i was hit by torp while chasing DD in open water. I learn "Z path strategy Zig-zagging" (thanks for comment by __Helmut_Kohl__) from second WW documentaries which does help.

Good player will look at where my guns are pointing to estimate my turning, so I turn mostly opposite when they are spotted by me.

 

Enemy

The most devastating ships: All BBs, Stalingrad, Moskva, Zao

CA that could engage: HIV, Hindenburg, Minotaur. (good hit chance, Minotaur will due large dmg at its spotted circle. )

CA that I dont care: All American CA (very little dmg from spotted circle.)

DDs (Gun boat or not): kite them

 

When I lost,

Mostly because i lost my patience and tried to rush a DD or BB unnecessarily. Rarely failed because the team fail too quickly. In this case, I am the most selfish player in the team.

 

Maps

Hotspot: Go to C and stay there.

Warrior's Path: Go East, play with islands

Tears of the Desert: Go East open water

Sea or Fortune: No idea how to play. I went in AB from mid.

Mountain Range: Go west

Sleeping Giant: Go inside A from mid then stick to enemy side of mountains

 

Negative chats, comments, threats and questions:

Ignore them. Sorry i don't have time to explain why i put Khabarovsk in rank. However, I do reply "I go C".

I received these comments very frequently even before game starts, but only in lower rank (R10-R6). In R5-R2, there is almost none negative comments.

 

 

I think that is all i want to share. I tried to keep the post short but i failed.

English isn't my first language, please bear with me and write down your comments :D

 

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[HAIFU]
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Interesting read, what's your captain and ship build?

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2 minutes ago, Benser said:

Interesting read, what's your captain and ship build?

Just a normal heal built, with special engine boost.

image.png.e7d435481142f3d9cbb383ada6be9268.png

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0mKXcg1.gif

 

Congratulations

 

And yet, "thanks" for createing even more selfish a**holes with this post.

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2 minutes ago, Air_Cheese said:

Just a normal heal built, with special engine boost.

image.png.e7d435481142f3d9cbb383ada6be9268.png

Gun FCS Mod 2 isn't available on Khaba, you must mean MBM3?

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2 minutes ago, Benser said:

Gun FCS Mod 2 isn't available on Khaba, you must mean MBM3?

Sure it is, thanks for correction :D

image.thumb.png.877fa239bb03e11b7729b98e6db840c0.png

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42 minutes ago, Air_Cheese said:

I went to the further cap only, which will have less enemy ships to support their DD. If it is open water, then i will chase the dd.

 

What exactly do you mean by chasing him ?

Don't you have to get close to his fire support for that ?

I am not the best cruiser player and I have absolutely no problems, wrecking a Khaba in my Moskva/Stalin/Zao at 10-15 km.

 

Quote

Rarely i was hit by torp while chasing DD in open water. I learn "Z path strategy" from second WW documentaries which does help.

 

That means just zig-zagging (switching left-right-left etc.) or something special ?

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'Selfish' may be being a little harsh - given how poisonous Ranked tends to be, doing whatever is required to get it done and finished as soon as possible sounds rather sensible. Perhaps 'pragmatic' might be a suitable word...?

If I had the chance to rattle off Rank 1, and reap the rewards, without having to spend *too* long in the mode, I would take it. Sadly (for me), there isn't a 'no skill' option that provides that...

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2 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

What exactly do you mean by chasing him ?

Don't you have to get close to his fire support for that ?

I am not the best cruiser player and I have absolutely no problems, wrecking a Khaba in my Moskva/Stalin/Zao at 10-15 km.

 

 

That means just zig-zagging (switching left-right-left etc.) or something special ?

Moskva, Stalingard, Zao are the most devastating ship to khaba. When a dd get inside the range of them, i have to give up chasing but wait for other opportunity. Not every situation has a good solution.

Not much DD would stay around them all the time.

 

Thanks, it is zig-zagging, if you dont might i will update it in my post :D.

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4 minutes ago, Air_Cheese said:

Thanks, it is zig-zagging, if you dont might i will update it in my post :D.

 

Sure thing, in Germany we say "Zick Zack" btw. :Smile_teethhappy:

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4 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

Welp, I know what ship I'm grinding for next ranked season...:cap_haloween:

 

If Daring stays as it is, that AP will be a real threat to a Khaba that wants to go 1v1.

 

It doesn't care about Kahabs armor and has improved penetration angles, also Darings DPM is way superior.

Combined with great concealment and a heal, Khaba will have to be careful.

 

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1 hour ago, Air_Cheese said:

My every stats beside wr are lower than averages.

I'm pretty sure that's actually misleading - no matter whose stats I look up, they tend to be lower than expected. This makes me think that the expected values aren't calculated for Ranked specifically - the site just uses the normal values that are appropriate for Randoms. And in Randoms there's obviously more ships to kill and more damage to farm - not to mention that the very playstyle is different (Ranked, as bad as it is with the "save the star" mechanic, is nonetheless more victory-oriented and less damage-oriented compared to Randoms).

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Just now, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

If Daring stays as it is, that AP will be a real threat to a Khaba that wants to go 1v1.

 

It doesn't care about Kahabs armor and has improved penetration angles, also Darings DPM is way superior.

Combined with great concealment and a heal, Khaba will have to be careful.

As much as I intend to grind Daring next after Harugumo and Gearing (I already have Kitakaze and Fletcher fully upgraded from stock, just got the final 200k grind left), I really hope WG nerf her from what I've seen in Flamu's most recent video before she goes live. She just has too much going for her at the moment.

As such I'm not expecting Daring to stay how she is at the moment. I'm hoping she doesn't stay how she is at the moment. If only because I think my Shima-chan might cry.

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If they change Daring, I really hope they keep the improved AP angles though.

It is the only thing that  is really unique about this ship.

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17 minutes ago, eliastion said:

I'm pretty sure that's actually misleading - no matter whose stats I look up, they tend to be lower than expected. This makes me think that the expected values aren't calculated for Ranked specifically - the site just uses the normal values that are appropriate for Randoms. And in Randoms there's obviously more ships to kill and more damage to farm - not to mention that the very playstyle is different (Ranked, as bad as it is with the "save the star" mechanic, is nonetheless more victory-oriented and less damage-oriented compared to Randoms).

I dont know how it is calculated, but i check for server avg and in season 10, they are quite different.  60k / 40k

 

 

Talking about current Darling, Khaba has no chance to win if he couldn't get out of effective ranges fast. 

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6 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

If they change Daring, I really hope they keep the improved AP angles though.

It is the only thing that  is really unique about this ship.

It would be interesting to have a truly AP-oriented line of ships but Daring seriously needs some weaknesses to have that. Perhaps what we need is actually the RN cruiser treatment? Improved AP angles, huge AP DPM but no HE at all. Then it would make sense to have high-dpm gunboats with great concealment - they can ambush enemy DDs but aren't good at kiting or chasing because a DD that shows them stern and just tries to run away will bounce most your shells despite the improved angles. As Daring is now, she has everything and the only downside is speed...

 

Anyway, I think we're going off topic. Wasn't this a Ranked Khaba thread originally? :Smile-_tongue:

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9 minutes ago, eliastion said:

It would be interesting to have a truly AP-oriented line of ships but Daring seriously needs some weaknesses to have that. Perhaps what we need is actually the RN cruiser treatment? Improved AP angles, huge AP DPM but no HE at all. Then it would make sense to have high-dpm gunboats with great concealment - they can ambush enemy DDs but aren't good at kiting or chasing because a DD that shows them stern and just tries to run away will bounce most your shells despite the improved angles. As Daring is now, she has everything and the only downside is speed...

 

Anyway, I think we're going off topic. Wasn't this a Ranked Khaba thread originally? :Smile-_tongue:

who cares the topic :D

i am very interested in new gun boat. I dont really like the khabaish ship after nearly 1000 random games.

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Interesting read, thank you very much for sharing!

 

This season i used Grozovoi for rank out in 107 battles, using it much the same way on the maps.

Meeting Khabas tended result in an undecided flank (both have heal), with the skill of the supporting cruisers to hit DDs deciding the outcome

(edge to Khaba from more firepower & hp, but smoking up to a broadside/turning Khaba and hammering it with AP at 7 km tended to level the playing field)

 

How did you deal with Harugumo? (I imagine they eat Khaba for breakfast as they do other dds save YY)

 

Also I'm curious about your build - 3x4 with RPF you call  "standard  heal build". I use 2+2+2 on mine in random battles (no RPF, but AR and SI/BFT instead).

Do you find RL more valuable than extra hp (SI) in Ranked or do you use the same build in Randoms too?

 

3 hours ago, eliastion said:

It would be interesting to have a truly AP-oriented line of ships but Daring seriously needs some weaknesses to have that. Perhaps what we need is actually the RN cruiser treatment? Improved AP angles, huge AP DPM but no HE at all. Then it would make sense to have high-dpm gunboats with great concealment - they can ambush enemy DDs but aren't good at kiting or chasing because a DD that shows them stern and just tries to run away will bounce most your shells despite the improved angles. As Daring is now, she has everything and the only downside is speed...

 

Anyway, I think we're going off topic. Wasn't this a Ranked Khaba thread originally? :Smile-_tongue:

Considering what Flamu showed, those current angles do damage to heavily angled dds, even stern-in, so even reducing the "improvement" a little bit might be in order.

Unless the concealment takes a hit instead (which it should - giving it Harugumo concealment should be a no brainer due to the dpm)

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2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

How did you deal with Harugumo? (I imagine they eat Khaba for breakfast as they do other dds save YY)

I don't have much experience with Khaba vs Harugumo but I'd say you underestimate Khaba's tankiness. Khaba has actual armor that mitigates Harugumo's DPM and OP said that he generally tries to kite enemy DDs - and Harugumo should be very vulnerable to Khaba kiting. The difference in speed is insane, Harugumo heavily angled (to not loose distance too quickly) can fire like 2-3 turrets (there goes her DPM advantage) and as soon as Khaba manages to open some distance, Harugumo suddenly finds herself without even the ability to effectively trade damage because IJN 100mm guns have great velocity only on very short distances - as the range grows, the gun arcs get floaty and hitting a fast target like Khaba becomes an issue. Khaba, on the other hand, still enjoys flat arcs and relatively short shell flight time. The actual DPM advantage then goes to Khaba - and that's just considering distance, not Khaba being on the run and Harugumo chasing.

As it is, Harugumo just can't chase Khaba - the moment the engagement starts, they basically both need to run away from each other because one needs distance and the other would like to get close but can't afford to chase. As a result, I'd expect Harugumo to quickly deal a bit of damage, but in the meantime Khaba is already disengaging and actually gets back at the opponent a little bit in the process. They each take some damage - Khaba probably a bit more but Harugumo doesn't have heal. If anything, I'd say that Khabarovsk is at a slight advantage in this match-up. At least when it comes to fighting, that is - Harugumo, despite bad stealth, still has a huge advantage over Khaba in this aspect. This, basically, lets her do the same thing every other DD does when they encounter a Khaba - spot and limit her options. With her stealth advantage, Harugumo is by design the side that decides whether to engage.

 

2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Considering what Flamu showed, those current angles do damage to heavily angled dds, even stern-in, so even reducing the "improvement" a little bit might be in order.

Unless the concealment takes a hit instead (which it should - giving it Harugumo concealment should be a no brainer due to the dpm)

Yes, there is SOME damage - but that's not really a bad thing for a ship that doesn't have HE at all while her main prey is the relatively nimble DD class. I've seen (and even played) Akizuki without IFHE and believe me - it's ridiculous how useless the AP becomes when the target angles. If a DD hunter were to use AP performing like this while not having any HE to switch to, the results would be INSANELY frustrating. And, let's face it, Daring's "natural prey" shouldn't be able to counter her main weapon so easily and to such degree.

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2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Interesting read, thank you very much for sharing!

 

This season i used Grozovoi for rank out in 107 battles, using it much the same way on the maps.

Meeting Khabas tended result in an undecided flank (both have heal), with the skill of the supporting cruisers to hit DDs deciding the outcome

(edge to Khaba from more firepower & hp, but smoking up to a broadside/turning Khaba and hammering it with AP at 7 km tended to level the playing field)

 

How did you deal with Harugumo? (I imagine they eat Khaba for breakfast as they do other dds save YY)

 

Also I'm curious about your build - 3x4 with RPF you call  "standard  heal build". I use 2+2+2 on mine in random battles (no RPF, but AR and SI/BFT instead).

Do you find RL more valuable than extra hp (SI) in Ranked or do you use the same build in Randoms too?

 

There is someone did the calculation, Suvivability Expert gain more total health than Superitendent. And 3 x 180s engine boost is more or less enough. Couldn't say which built is better only if you like it.

I kite all dds including Harugumo, no matter he is low or like Yueyang, which with no torp threat to me. Push and force them to fire on me, kite then find another chance to do it again.

 

I believe i met your Grozovoi in 1 or 2 match, and i lost one at least :D

 

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OP isn't selfish at all...

 

With RPF and CE a Khaba can chase down other DDs.

 

Plus the T10 meta has so much radar and extreme firepower that traditional DDs are heavily nullified so they can't push caps or spot as well as with lower tiers.

 

I'm impressed by OPs work :cap_like:

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Very interesting read. I will try to follow your guide but using Grozovoi, as apparently I cannot Khaba at all. Do you see any drawbacks in changing the ship? I could use Harugumo too, but I think that speed is vital in the tactic you described and she cannot be considered a fast ship.

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56 minutes ago, RambaRal said:

Very interesting read. I will try to follow your guide but using Grozovoi, as apparently I cannot Khaba at all. Do you see any drawbacks in changing the ship? I could use Harugumo too, but I think that speed is vital in the tactic you described and she cannot be considered a fast ship.

I think Grozovoi would take that role as well.

The current Grozovoi are more versatile than Khaba. I think it is a bit more difficult to play Grozovoi than Khaba because she has much more options.

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I gave up on Ranked at 15 (basically, as soon as the 10s arrived) as my first 3 or 4 games were populated by utter, utter potatoes. I did consider doing Khaba this season as I met a couple last season who game me hell.

 

Your build and playstyle matches mine, I might have a go for a few games and see if I like it.

 

And with regards to being called "selfish"; I've yet to meet more than a handful of players in any season who I wouldn't describe as selfish. Seems with every passing year that the star is the only objective, not the win.

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