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Balancing Submarines

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[NJORD]
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Hello everybody,

 

in World of Warships has been always discusion about submarines and if it is possible for submarines to be in this game.
When video with submarine showed up, the discussion about submarines is here again and more serious.
In this video is showed submarine gameplay and shows, that submarines are planned for Halloween event.
If you haven't seen this gameplay, here is link to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5Cgzarg0HI

 

Many people think, that this Halloween event could be test for possible submarine implementation in World of Warships.
If this is true or not, I leave on yourself.

 

Now the main question is: How could be the submarines balanced outside the Halloween event?
There is no doubt, that submarines would change the game.

 

Here are some ideas how submarines could be balanced.
Please keep in mind, that these are just ideas.

 

Submarines were slower, when compared to destroyers, cruisers, aircraft carriers or even battleships.

Therefor, if submarines would make it into the game, their speed needs to be adjusted properly so they can be usable in game.

 

Adding submarines in game is only possible after the other issues in the current state of game are solved.

 

Submarines:
Balancing:

 

1) Air
Submarines, when under water, would have limited amount of air. This air would be consumed over time.
When out of air, submarine will take damage over time. Submarine's captain would be forced to go to the surface, 
where air will be refilled. This simpe way submarines would be forced to plan their attack carefully and will prevent submarines 
from staying under water for too much time. 
Historically, german engineers experimented with refillyling air, while under water. The submarine had pipe which was 
lift up, when submarine was few meter under surface. This could be implemented in game for some submarines. It could
worked two ways: 1) The submarine doesn't need to be on surface to refill air.
                              2) Submarine's air consumption would be decreased.
One way or another, using this pipe would increase submarine's decection radius.
Submarines could have 1 consumable- emergency blow. This would rapidly decrease time needed for emergence.

 

2) Batteries
This is similiar to air solution.
Submarines of World War 1 and 2 had diesel engines for propulsion on surface.
While operating under water, submarines used electric engines. Electric engines didn't require air and didn't produce
fuel gases. However, they required large amount of batteries to keep them running.
In WoWs submarines, while under water, will consume electricity. If the batteries are depleted, submarine will stop moving,
but emerge. On surface, batteries begin to recharge. 
There could be also more accurate electric consume system. In this 2nd version, electricity would be consumed only if 
the submarine is moving submerged. With highter speed comes highter electricity consumtion and so on.
This will mean, that submarine could be under water for really long time (if air idea is skipped), but she can't move, making it easy 
prey to destroyers. Personally, I would prefer the 1st version.

 

3) No divisions with 2 submarines
Fighting in cruiser (for example) with two submarines alone will be very stressful and not enjoyable.
Banning divisions with 2 submarines would prevent this to happen. The same step was inplemented for aircraft carriers.

 

4) Limited amount of torpedoes
Honestly, I think that this would be bad way to balance submarines. For example Type VII C/42 submarine had 16 torpedoes.
This is quite a lot of torpedoes for submarine of that time. However, in WoWs would be ammunition depleted quickly, leaving 
submarine only with low caliber gun, or not even that-> being quite useless.

 

5) Low health pool and non-existing armour
This is obvious. Submarine in WoWs can't have more health even than destroyer of the same tier.

They are fragile stealth assasins.

 

6) Modules
While on surface, submarine's modules (engines, water/ air tanks or torpedo tubes) could be damaged from enemy shells.
If engine is damaged, then the submarine will stop moving, but can dive.
If water tanks are damaged, then the submarine can't go under water and if it's submered, it will emerge.
If air tanks are damaged, then submarine can't submered and if it's under water,  it will emerge.
If torpedo tubes are damaged, then submarine can't launch torpedoes.

 

7) Firing torpedoes at certain depth
This idea is for battle between 2 submarines. It would be hard to hit enemy submarine while under water and constantly 
changing depth and doing evasive manouvers. If this would be implemented in game, submarines could fire torpedoes only
in periscopic depth or on surface. The other option is to make restrict depths (for example surface, -10m, -20m, ....), where 
submarine could operate, while under water (just like in the video from Wargaming).

 

 

Equipment:
Submarines would have passive sonar. Thanks to passive sonar, submarine would be able to hear/ detect enemy ships
at short range, while under water. Under water, submarine wouldn't be able to spot enemy ships without sonar.
On the surface, submarine would have increased detection radius, but could spot other ships, just like any other ship in WoWs.
While in periscopic depth, submarine's concealment would be:  -worse, than submarine when under water
                                                                                                                 -better, than submarine when on surface

 

5baa7dbc7e59d_TypeVIIA.jpg.30e01449c3af4cb82ea6ce36f421b48c.jpg

         Type VII A, german U-boat

 


Balancing other ships:
                
Destroyers:
1) Depth charges
Destroyers would be armed with depth charges. Destroyer would sail above submerged submarine and use sonar 
(to find out, what is the submarine's depth) and use depth charges to destroy her.

 

2) Active sonar
This would be consumable, which increases detection. This way, submarine would be easier to detect, while under water.
However, this consumable would be active only for 40-50 seconds.

 

3) Passive sonar
This would be destroyers passive ability. It enables to detect submerged submarine. It has smaller detection radious than
active sonar.

 

Destroyers would be the main anti-submarine force. With hight speed and maneuverability, destroyers would evade attacks 
and with sonar and depth charges, destroyer would destroy submarine.

 


Cruisers:

1) Active sonar
This would be consumable, which increases detection. This way, submarine would be easier to detect, while under water.
However, this consumable would be active only for 40-50 seconds. Cruisers would have slightly better sonars than destroyers.

 

2) Passive sonar
This would be cruiser's passive ability. It enables to detect submerged submarine. It has smaller detection radious than
active sonar. Cruisers would have slightly better sonars than destroyers.

 

3) Shells could pierce limited amout of water
Shells of cruisers with large caliber guns, would be able to pierce limited amount of water.
This way cruiser could damage submarine in periscopic depth.

 

4) Spotting plane
Spotting plane could spot incoming torpedoes or submarine. Spotting plane could be armed with light bombs or depth charges.

 

Cruisers could evade torpedoes, thanks to sonar, and hunt for submarine, until she comes to surface and destroy her.

 


Battleships:
1) Shells could pierce limited amout of water
Shells of battleships with large caliber guns, would be able to pierce limited amount of water.
This way battleship could damage submarine in periscopic depth.

 

2) Spotting plane
Spotting plane could spot incoming torpedoes or submarine. Spotting plane could be armed with light bombs or depth charges.
Battleships would have better spotting planes than cruisers.

 

If submarines were implemented in WoWs, battleships would probably suffer the most. These are 2 ideas to 
helped them survived. I can't think of any other ideas for battleships, so if you know, you can write them in comments.

 


Aircraft carriers:
1) Planes with depth charges
This is quite simple solution. Planes would be armed with depth charges. Group of these planes would search for submarine
and sink it with depth charges.

Planes are effective way to hunt submarines. However, in WoWs aircraft carrier's captain can get distracted from other
tasks and forget about submarine or forget to check his surroundings and get sunk.

 

5baa7dead8fbe_HMSCeylondepthcharge.jpg.d89b4b6471e11dbef0151576753cc3be.jpg

HMS Ceylon, depth charge explosion

 


What submarines I am looking forward to:
Type VII C/42 - classic german U-boat
Type XXI - the most advanced U-boat in WW2
Type XXIII- great coastal german submarine
I-400- giant submarine, armed with torpedoes and planes
Gato-class submarine

 

Last few words:
I would love to see submarines in WoWs, but I also don't want to destroy this game.
If Wargaming wants to implement submarines in Random battles, then they need to do it carefully.
Also, I think that minelayer submarines won't make it into the game.

 

 


I will be glad if you leave your comment below. I hope you enjoyed this article and have a nice day.

I apologize for any grammar mistakes, english is not my native language.

 

I-400.thumb.jpg.33f5416fdd41912081886a7d33366bec.jpg

I-400, the biggest submarine in the world until nuclear submarines appeared

 

 

 

 

 

Resourses:


Informations:
Book- Německé válečné ponorky 1939-1945- Svojtka a Co.

Pictures:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_charge
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine
wikiwand.com/fr/Unterseeboot_36_(1936)
 

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I suppose we already have active sonar in game as hydroacoustic search. It works alright at the moment, though they could play about with the range or duration to balance subs. I don't like the idea of limited torpedoes, as this will just make submarines worthless for the late game, especially if they have been busy near a cap point all game. Just give them lower damage per torpedo/longer reload and balance that way, much like how destroyer torpedoes are balanced. 

There could be a new niche for ASW destroyers coming soon. That would allow players to spec their ships to exclusively make use of their depth charges and guns to harrass DD's, perhaps at the expense of their torpedoes. Maybe we could even have split DD lines in other trees to account for some of these ships, maybe this could be a flavour for a US alternate DD line?.

Also, as far as I know, AP shells can already penetrate a given amount of water (as long as they aren't short-fused), it's how players citadel battleships at close range. So subs that get spotted at periscope depth could be at risk from lower velocity guns like US guns, as the shells fall more vertically onto the target. Shame that RN cruisers and battleships have the short fuse gimmick, so they will be useless at this.

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[POI--]
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Great work about the gameplay ideas ^^

I like the idea of adding submarines in the game. I share the same concern about the delicate balancing of this vessels without ruining the game. The gameplay in the event is in my opinion a good groundwork for further development steps (consumables, balancing etc.).

 

I have worked out some Submarine Tech Tree proposals which i will post soon. I will edit later the link in here.

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[UTW]
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We don't need subs in the game as it is now.

 

Make them fight in separate game mode, with a DD vs sub mode for example; but don't add them in the game as it is now. It's not even a matter of balance, it's a matter of fundamental gameplay, map design, objectives, machmaking and class design.

 

You didn't even touch the issues of speed, the issue of DD doing simply a BETTER JOB IN EVERYWAY. Your idea isn't even about balancing, it's pure fantasy.

(Not to mention sub never had the job to fight in surface battle)

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[NJORD]
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Před 21 hodinami ShinGetsu řekl/a:

We don't need subs in the game as it is now.

 

Make them fight in separate game mode, with a DD vs sub mode for example; but don't add them in the game as it is now. It's not even a matter of balance, it's a matter of fundamental gameplay, map design, objectives, machmaking and class design.

 

You didn't even touch the issues of speed, the issue of DD doing simply a BETTER JOB IN EVERYWAY. Your idea isn't even about balancing, it's pure fantasy.

(Not to mention sub never had the job to fight in surface battle)

My responce to your comment is:

-adding submarines in game is only possible after the other issues in the current state of game are solved - that we can agree on, I think.

 

-I didn't touch issue of speed, I forgot about that and I am sorry for that. But my justification can be, that speed, armour penetration,... can by modified by WG for balance purposes. If submarines would be implemented in game as fully historically accurate, than their speed would be too slow. (I will add it to article)

 

-the issue of DD being better in every way- well, DDs have greater "alpha strike" with torpedoes, better guns (main guns and AA guns), better speed, can lay down a smoke and would have more hit points than submarines. However, I think, that submarines would have better concealment and thanks to ability to be submerged, they could get to their target much closer, therefor having much better chance of hitting every torpedo and they could be better at holding map objectives, such as bases...

Correct me if I am wrong, but unless I am at point blank range, I don't hit every torpedo I launched at my target, when I play as DD.

 

-when I was creating this article, I was thinking about: "What would submarines have, so they won't be OP or untouchable and what to give other ship to defend themselves?"  I put here ideas of ways to make submarines more possible to be put in the game. This article isn't about: "Should Type VIIC submarine have 5000HP or 4500HP less than DD of this or that tier? Or should average submarine have 75% HP of average DD hit points?"

So yes, this article isn't purely about balancing submarines, again these are just ideas.

 

-"Not to mention sub never had the job to fight in surface battle."   -when I was creating this article, I thought, that this piece of information was quite obvious so I didn't put it here. They had weak armour, lower speed, less torpedoes, less guns. Advantage, they relied upon, was ability to be submerged.

 

Last few words:

Even though your comment is mainly negative to my article, I appreciate your honest responce. It is always good to see the problems from "different angles".

Today is 24th of December and I want to say to everyone, who is reading this- Merry Christmas, Happy new year and good luck on the battlefield.

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