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gyrostabilizer

Russian destroyers - How to play?

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I have around 2000 games so not totally new. I'm a bit shy to ask such question not in new player forum. I have Minsk. I watched videos on youtube how to play it. But. They say hey just glue your left mouse button sail around. Shoot some people. Set some fires. And indeed in those videos I saw damages over 100k per game.

But I can't just play like that. DDs are so important in this game for spotting. So if I sail around and barely kill one BB on enemy team it almost feels like my DD spot in team is wasted. So I go into game with idea I will shoot another DD, help CAP point then I will go on my damage spree. But that never happens. There is always need for spotting, need for killing enemy DDs, need for capping so I almost never get to actually doing real damage numbers. It feels like I better picked another destroyer, maybe american that is better at that role...

The game says I am somewhat below average, or average. Not often I see damage per game more than 40k. Sometimes I finish first. I get compensated in gold alright. No complains here. But how the hell I could do 100 k damage in Minsk?!?

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Well, those videos you saw saying just put a brick on mouse-button one and sail around whole match aren't wrong. That's how you play the russian gunboat speedfreaks.

 

What you probably have problems with is trying to apply that knowledge where it matters most.

As russian DDs, spotting is a secondary trait for you (or at least spotting enemy DDs is) since your concealment is typically worse than that other other DDs. That however means little for spotting cruisers and battleships though. Plus everything that's shooting at you in the open is automatically spotted anyway (one reason the Khabarovsk is a great spotter, everyone shoots at it and lights themselves up for your team).

 

As dealing damage, during the starting phase of a match try to stay close to allied DDs on your team. Just declare one your best comrade tovarish and then you stick ~3km around him. Any DD he spots, you can shoot and between the two of you no single DD will survive that fight unless they bugger off and let your comrade have the cap to himself.

 

Once the initial brawls at the caps is done and the lines have settled, that's when you can start picking on those BBs and just let the Stalinium rain, set fires everywhere and just farm damage whilst dodging return fire with your rudder and absurd speed (this is where the big damage numbers rack up, though by far the least important damage you'll do in the game unless you literally melt lots of ships by yourself).

Also, at this stage of the game with the initial DD scuffle having taken place already it's much easier for you to risk engaging DDs on your own. For one you'll roughly know where his friends are (not like at the start where you have no idea you might be running into half the enemy fleet) and secondly those DDs are like to have caught a few shells already. And with few friends to help them (of you pick the fighting location smart) they have to either sod off and let you be, or pick a fight at which point your superiour gun performance will win most DD duels (assuming you have enough HP left to take a trade or two because the enemy DDs will still get the first volley on you).

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2 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

As dealing damage, during the starting phase of a match try to stay close to allied DDs on your team. Just declare one your best comrade tovarish and then you stick ~3km around him. Any DD he spots, you can shoot and between the two of you no single DD will survive that fight unless they bugger off and let your comrade have the cap to himself.

 

Pretty much this. Especially on mid-tiers. You also might want to pay attention, which targets your team are shooting and join in there. That way, during mid- and end-game you should be able to rack somewhat decent damage, through perma-fires. Its only later, that f.e. the Khaba is sort of a lone-wolf.

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1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

As russian DDs, spotting is a secondary trait for you (or at least spotting enemy DDs is) since your concealment is typically worse than that other other DDs.

 

thing is, on the Minsk that isnt actually true, at least at your own tier (good luck if you get uptiered...). There arent all that many DDs that outspot you heavily - Maass and Mahan are the exact same, and even an Akatsuki only has a few hundred meters on you. For now, it's only Shiratsuyu and Gadjah Madah that seriously outclass you for stealth (with the Brits joining that club soon). And at the same time, your guns arent all that good for the long range playstyle yet - yes, you already have the ballistics, but they turn pretty sluggishly and you have five individual barrels with wildly differing firing angles.

That means that the Minsk is a ship that demands quite a bit of flexibility and judgement from its captain - you need to get a feel for when you should go do what. It's only the Kiev, Tashkent, Udaloi and Khabarovsk that are really made for a pure run-and-gun playstyle - Grozovoi can also do it ofc, those guns are mean, but then you pretty much ignore your amazing concealment.

So, @gyrostabilizer I'd almost recommend you wait until the next round of public testing and grab a Kiev on the Public Test Server - zero pressure environment, and you can use that to get a feel for what the line turns into and whether you enjoy that. I know I really really do enjoy it :cap_rambo:

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5 hours ago, gyrostabilizer said:

But I can't just play like that. DDs are so important in this game for spotting. So if I sail around and barely kill one BB on enemy team it almost feels like my DD spot in team is wasted. So I go into game with idea I will shoot another DD, help CAP point then I will go on my damage spree. But that never happens. There is always need for spotting, need for killing enemy DDs, need for capping so I almost never get to actually doing real damage numbers. It feels like I better picked another destroyer, maybe american that is better at that role...

In the end, you have to accept the Russians DD's as what they are: Really fast boats with great accurate guns. Keep moving fast, and don't get too close. With a bit of distance between you and the foe, you're the one who's difficult to hit. Keep the guns blazing, but pull out if you get too much fire -- only to return again. 

 

When I play Minsk, Leningrad and Kiev, I think of myself as a general nuisance to the enemy. Often I switch targets to keep the fires going, and if possible also provide close support for a friendly capping DD. It's a dirty, cowardly style of play, but my win rates are good in these ships, so it seems to work. 

 

You can also use the excellent speed to perform other tricks occasionally. If you spawn close to cap, you'll be there first, but if contested you also have the speed to get away.

 

Also, late into battles you often get the chance to ambush enemy BB's: With some cover, straight at them, wiggle a bit if you find yourself looking into 350 mm barrels, and then dump all torps in their side. They have very limited reaction time, and you really feel like the boss. It requires good judgement, but can be brutally effective. 

 

Edit: Additionally, like the lower tier Russian cruisers with 130 mm guns, up to Krasny Krim, these ships benefit greatly from captain skills. Expert marksman, Basic firing training, Demolition expert and Advanced firing training are all investing to the one thing these boats have going for them: guns. I also always try to have the sierra mike signal for maximum speed. 

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With Russian DDs, don't try to cap unless you are sure the cap is empty and there is no one about. If you are caught in a cap run. Once a few ships are dead you can pretend to be a proper DD and try, but for the most part you are drawing fire from other ships and burning BBs that your own BBs are shooting at. The damage you do can be high, but it's all healable, so to be a real contributor to the win you need to do it in support of your other ships. You can smoke them and then run about in front of your smoke shooting and spotting. 

 

Finally, runnign down a single BB and burning it to the waterline is good damage and fun, but you are better off helping other BBs kill their targets where they don;t get to heal it all back with impunity.

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6 hours ago, gyrostabilizer said:

So if I sail around and barely kill one BB on enemy team it almost feels like my DD spot in team is wasted.

Well, that's really what happens, basically. It's different for Grozovoi at t10 and maybe some others at lower tiers, but the thing with most soviet DDs is that they don't really do the DD job. You can support your friendly DDs from closer up than if you were a cruiser but spotting? Capping on your own? These ships are just not made for that. If there are many DDs in a match, you're an asset - you can stay close to the real DDs, you have some firepower to cruiser-style hurt things bigger than DDs, you have speed and arcs to stay at range and annoy people while being hard to hit (speed/evasion tanking is a thing). You are more useful than a fifth DD would be.

 

Unfortunately, whenever you enter a match with few DDs, your team is effectively lacking a precious DD - and this can hurt. Although, it should be noted, when there are pretty much no DDs at all (say, 1v1 DD with the enemy DD located not long ago on the opposite flank) it's possible to suddenly feel like a destroyer again - as awful as soviet DDs' concealment is, it's usually better than what cruisers have, especially if you still spec into stealth build (not always a good idea - especially Khabarovsk pretty much needs stearing gears mod, making her abysmal stealth even worse than the raw stats indicate). Anyway, in most soviet DDs you can do some DD-ing as long as there are no "real" DDs in the vicinity. If, however, your ideal is to actually focus on things like spotting, being a torp threat and contesting caps... then, I'm afraid, the recommended approach would be to switch line. Russian DDs (with rare but notable exceptions like Grozovoi) simply aren't really cut out to perform the tasks we tend to think of in WoWs when we hear the word "destroyer".

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There's some good advice in this thread, hopefully it'll help you play better. Here's my contribution:

 

Your problem is that you want to do an arbitrary damage number. 100k.

 

First off you're looking at completely the wrong stat. The stat you should be looking at is base XP alongside potential damage. They are what tells you how useful you've been. 

 

XP is rewarded based on (aside from capping and maybe a bit of spotting) % damage on ships. That's why if you do 50k damage to DDs you earn more xp than if you do 50k damage to BBs. Let's face it, with 50k damage To DDs you've probably racked up a kill or three. With 50k damage to BBs you've set a couple of fires that they ignored incase they got torped and maybe "secured" a kill. 

 

Then there's potential damage. The advantage of the run and gun play style (in terms of value to the team) is, as someone pointed out upthread, you're a distraction. You are an evasion tanker. The idea is simple: if Priority Target tells you 4 people are shooting at you then you know 4 less people are shooting your team mates. The hope is then for your team to capitalise on this by capping or focusing down the nearest threat (yeah I know relying on team to do something, but you never know). 

 

100k damage and a Witherer farmed from BBs is nice, but 70k and over 2 million potential damage and a load of cap defended ribbons is someone being useful to the team

 

If you get onto a flank you can often kite enemy ships away from caps. You're fast, you can reposition easily, that BB and two CLs that have been chasing you to the edge of the map? It's going to take them time to get back into the fight.  

 

(Obviously when you do that kind of thing try to make sure you don't get boxed in at the edge of the map. That tends to be a fatal mistake.) 

 

Even if you don't manage to draw them to the edge of the map as long as they're concentrating on you then they're not supporting their DDs which gives yours more of a chance. 

 

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You are a support cruiser without a citadel. Forget you are a DD until you are the last one standing.

 

1. pair with an IJN or KM DD, stay about 3-4km behind him and lend him some firepower when needed

2. rain fire on enemy BBs from close to max range

3. after all available targets are either out of range or dead, go cap

 

You will never want to be a frontline DD, you don't have the torp range concealment. You can get usable concealment with the Minsk, however that is only good for ambushes, you still lose to any other no-RU DD in the concealment game.

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20 hours ago, Aotearas said:

Well, those videos you saw saying just put a brick on mouse-button one and sail around whole match aren't wrong. That's how you play the russian gunboat speedfreaks.

 

What you probably have problems with is trying to apply that knowledge where it matters most.

As russian DDs, spotting is a secondary trait for you (or at least spotting enemy DDs is) since your concealment is typically worse than that other other DDs. That however means little for spotting cruisers and battleships though. Plus everything that's shooting at you in the open is automatically spotted anyway (one reason the Khabarovsk is a great spotter, everyone shoots at it and lights themselves up for your team).

 

As dealing damage, during the starting phase of a match try to stay close to allied DDs on your team. Just declare one your best comrade tovarish and then you stick ~3km around him. Any DD he spots, you can shoot and between the two of you no single DD will survive that fight unless they bugger off and let your comrade have the cap to himself.

 

Once the initial brawls at the caps is done and the lines have settled, that's when you can start picking on those BBs and just let the Stalinium rain, set fires everywhere and just farm damage whilst dodging return fire with your rudder and absurd speed (this is where the big damage numbers rack up, though by far the least important damage you'll do in the game unless you literally melt lots of ships by yourself).

Also, at this stage of the game with the initial DD scuffle having taken place already it's much easier for you to risk engaging DDs on your own. For one you'll roughly know where his friends are (not like at the start where you have no idea you might be running into half the enemy fleet) and secondly those DDs are like to have caught a few shells already. And with few friends to help them (of you pick the fighting location smart) they have to either sod off and let you be, or pick a fight at which point your superiour gun performance will win most DD duels (assuming you have enough HP left to take a trade or two because the enemy DDs will still get the first volley on you).

@Aotearas You have in a few short paragraphs given me the  most useful advice I've ever seen on how to play a ship / nation class. 

 

Do you fancy doing the same for the other DD nations and posting it somewhere. I'd love to read them. I'm just starting out on DD's and something like this explains in a nutshell what I should be trying to achieve with RU DD's.

 

Thank you :Smile_medal:

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To increase your passive damage from fires, keep an eye out for who used his damacon and focus on those targets. If you have multiple BBs in range switch target after you set one fire, since most people by now have learned to let that burn.

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just dont do it! they are not worth it right now! you want guns, torpedoes, good concealment?? go for harugumo!!! you got better guns with way better concealment and usable torps! khaba was nerfed 4 times in a row, concealment nerf by nerfing maneuverability and forcing you to take stearing gears mod 3, max concealment is 7.9 every dd will outspot you, guns velocity is good and thats it theyre dpm is lackluster. and you get a heal witch you can trade for smoke!!! but daring can have smoke and heal both times same as grozovoi! overall russian dds suck right now dont play them utill they buff theyre concealment by 1km and give them better hp or dpm! grozovoi is pretty good but dont ever get khaba as it is right now! also russian bias my [edited]4 consecutive nerfs!! the only russian bias in this game is called stalingrad!

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