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Goktsu

HE spam is the meta 2018

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I can literally chill in the back with my cruiser in a battle and just get 1 or 2 HE fires off on an enemy Battleship and literally do nothing for the 30-50 sec and when i check back his HP is already around 50% HP. In comparaison if i hop in my battleship using mainly AP and do a comparaison of my damages in an excel sheet for the last 7 days, between me using HE on my cruisers and using AP on my battleship there is a large significant GAP in damage which clearly shows the best damage output is HE hands down it beats AP every-time.

 

I now sincerely believe HE does not require skills and for me it is  an AFK damage dealing ability and one of the laziest way to deal constant afk damage in a game, in comparaison when i use AP shells this  definitely require more skills and precise aiming you have less chance to cause significant damage  while my HE shells can just drop randomly somewhere on a ship and just burn my target down while i am drinking my coffee.

Now i know why battleship are so timid and do not want to push can't blame you guys:Smile_child: . When i burn somebody down i don't pat myself and say" dam that was good " instead every time the thought in my mind " HE fire did 80% of the work you did 20%"

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I hate when people say a specific ammo type doesn't or does require skills. It's not the ammo type itself, it'd knowing when to switch ammo types that takes skill. As for all the other erm 'points' in this if we can even call them points. I just have no words. This is too funny lol

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6 minutes ago, Mr_Snoww said:

I hate when people say a specific ammo type doesn't or does require skills. It's not the ammo type itself, it'd knowing when to switch ammo types that takes skill. As for all the other erm 'points' in this if we can even call them points. I just have no words. This is too funny lol

Whats so skill-full about an ability that seem to proc 50% of the time and deal afk damage? might as well call it : The lazy man damage

 

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With a BB you need more precise aim, but with an HE cruiser you need precise movement or you get blapped out of the game. Its a good balance.

 

In terms of consistent damage output HE spammers certainly are at the top, but the playstyle has been dubbed "high damage low impact" for a reason. At such long ranges you cant decisively take out an enemy or contest objectives. You get high damage, but the WR suffers.

 

Lastly, HE itself is 50% repairable and fires are 100% repairable while only overpens from AP are 100% repairable. Meaning AP deals more permanent damage, which is more valuable in high tiers.

 

Dealing 20k damage in 1 salvo that is ~30% repairable is much better strategically than dealing 30k damage over 1 minute which is ~80% repairable.

 

OP simplified this way to much

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I must say I agree totally with the OP, I used to love my BB you had to know how to angle and when you could use all your guns but now I only play yamato and Montana as they are still good at range and I have switched to cruisers as I don't have to aim particularly well just hit and you will get fires.

The second you try to push you get HE focussed by Worcester and harugumo I must say since the launch in steam the fun of this game has gone down due to potato players that get steam rolled on one flank and the braindead HE spam 

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32 minutes ago, Goktsu said:

I can literally chill in the back with my cruiser in a battle and just get 1 or 2 HE fires off on an enemy Battleship and literally do nothing for the 30-50 sec and when i check back his HP is already around 50% HP. In comparaison if i hop in my battleship using mainly AP and do a comparaison of my damages in an excel sheet for the last 7 days, between me using HE on my cruisers and using AP on my battleship there is a large significant GAP in damage which clearly shows the best damage output is HE hands down it beats AP every-time.

 

I now sincerely believe HE does not require skills and for me it is  an AFK damage dealing ability and one of the laziest way to deal constant afk damage in a game, in comparaison when i use AP shells this  definitely require more skills and precise aiming you have less chance to cause significant damage  while my HE shells can just drop randomly somewhere on a ship and just burn my target down while i am drinking my coffee.

Now i know why battleship are so timid and do not want to push can't blame you guys:Smile_child: . When i burn somebody down i don't pat myself and say" dam that was good " instead every time the thought in my mind " HE fire did 80% of the work you did 20%"

 

 

N8ZYyn1.gif

where to start on this one.....

 

Your comparing He from a cruiser to AP on a BB ...two totally different rounds with very different mechanics...depending on wich type of ship you are using!!!

What you XL spreadsheet doesn't appreciate is that the accuracy from a BB will be way less due to dispersion on BB's. Can you imagine if there were as accurate as Crusier rounds...come on think about it?!!

If your scoring more damage with HE on a cruiser than AP in a BB Then its down to you not the game imo.

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9 minutes ago, Goktsu said:

Whats so skill-full about an ability that seem to proc 50% of the time and deal afk damage? might as well call it : The lazy man damage

 

Then I can say back, whats skillfull about shooting AP at cruisers or DDs that overmatch and deal heavy damage as long as semi decent rng is had? 

 

Using AP in cruisers is super rewarding of used correctly. HE requires game knowledge, knowing which part of the ships your HE pens is important. In competitive circles you will find that people value the damage HE deals directly is much more than the fires you talk so much about.

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OP is a man I like, at least he's started collecting data.
Now, @Goktsu would you be so kind as to share this data with us please as you seem to bank your argument on it. It's only fair that we can see it as well then.

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7 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

 

 

N8ZYyn1.gif

where to start on this one.....

 

Your comparing He from a cruiser to AP on a BB ...two totally different rounds with very different mechanics...depending on wich type of ship/line you are using!!!

What you XL spreadsheet doesn't appreciate is that the accuracy from a BB will be way less due to dispersion on BB's. Can you imagine if there were as accurate as Crusier rounds...come on think about it?!!

If your not scoring more damage with a BB using AP THAN A CRUISER'S HE ....YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG!!!

LOL you totally ignoring the point i was making, which was simply HE = AFK lazy damage. I was talking about efficiency in regards to damage purely on the basis HE fire does not require skills. 

 

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42 minutes ago, Goktsu said:

I can literally chill in the back with my cruiser in a battle and just get 1 or 2 HE fires off on an enemy Battleship and literally do nothing for the 30-50 sec and when i check back his HP is already around 50% HP

Which cruiser was you playing out of the 2 you own, St. Louis or Atago, and any chance I can see your Excel spreadsheet?

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1 minute ago, iJoby said:

Which cruiser was you playing out of the 2 you own, St. Louis or Atago, and any chance I can your Excel spreadsheet?

Now you trolling .:Smile_teethhappy:

Download SigmaPlot , its statistical probability analysis tool. If you want i can post the graph which gave me the results.

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Well yeah a long range cruiser (or even dd) with decent speed and concealment and fast shells that have reasonable fire chance basically has no real counter (conc is a similar case), you have to gang up on them or they just burn down one ship after the other untill there is nothing left, it doesnt really matter how you manage dcp since its not important that they kill you outright they just keep lighting fires untill you are forced back for repair and put you out if real fight for several minutes (ie you need at least 2 heals to repair a proper firespammers damage) ofc a lucky rng salvo can end them but if they are content with not going in for close support and just stay at range and behind their first line...

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53 minutes ago, Goktsu said:

In comparaison if i hop in my battleship using mainly AP and do a comparaison of my damages in an excel sheet for the last 7 days, between me using HE on my cruisers and using AP on my battleship there is a large significant GAP in damage which clearly shows the best damage output is HE hands down it beats AP every-time.

 

 in comparaison when i use AP shells this  definitely require more skills and precise aiming you have less chance to cause significant damage  while my HE shells can just drop randomly somewhere on a ship and just burn my target down while i am drinking my coffee.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Goktsu said:

LOL you totally ignoring the point i was making, which was simply HE = AFK lazy damage. I was talking about efficiency in regards to damage purely on the basis HE fire does not require skills. 

 

That maybe what you ment but that's not what your saying from your post...

Your comparing data from Cursers HE to BB 's Ap stating that you have less chance to cause significant damage with Ap in A BB wich is laughable considering you can take out a cruiser with a ACURATE single volley of AP.

 

How many shots were fired by HE and how many landed, How many shots of AP were fired to how many landed to cause damage etc. (accuracy percentage fired etc.) there's 1 element that is very relevant that needs to be taken in to account in you spreadsheet no?

I feel your spread sheet does not have the full story and all the necessary data to be accurate and there fore your conclusion is incorrect.

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5 minutes ago, Goktsu said:

If you want i can post the graph which gave me the results.

That would be nice of you, it helps to verify your statement. 

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Goktsu, if you were to take HE fire damage away from ships that rely on this damage to stay competitive, eg US light cruisers, Soviet cruisers up to tier 9, Japanese cruisers, including the Zao - how would you balance these ships?

 

Give them mega torps?

Give them much better AP shells? Or HE shells that do more impact damage but start fewer fires?

Make these cruisers much more durable?

Give them 20km range radars that last for 2 minutes?

 

Or some other ridiculous, unrealistic, make the game even more arcadey balancing mechanic?

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4 minutes ago, iJoby said:

That would be nice of you, it helps to verify your statement. 

Its a simple formula  :

 

Formulas:

Probability of event A occurring P(A) = n(A) / n(S).
Probability of event A not occurring P(A') = 1 - P(A)

 

Probability of event that occurs P(A) : 0.63     (HE fire AFK significant damage)

Probability of event that occurs P(A) :  0.20      (Compared to AP)

 

 

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Just now, Goktsu said:

Its a simple formula  :

 

Formulas:

Probability of event A occurring P(A) = n(A) / n(S).
Probability of event A not occurring P(A') = 1 - P(A)

 

Probability of event that occurs P(A) : 0.63     (HE fire AFK significant damage)

Probability of event that occurs P(A) :  0.20      (Compared to AP)

 

 

 

 

So where is the graph?

You are the one argumenting, so you have to produce the evidence...

 

 

Altho, something tells me you will not, and spend next week as a RO user.

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Just now, Goktsu said:

Its a simple formula  :

 

Formulas:

Probability of event A occurring P(A) = n(A) / n(S).
Probability of event A not occurring P(A') = 1 - P(A)

 

Probability of event that occurs P(A) : 0.63     (HE fire AFK significant damage)

Probability of event that occurs P(A) :  0.20      (Compared to AP)

 

 

We're not asking for common math, we're asking for your data. You know, the numbers you use to back up your claim.

Since you have them (see first post) just show them to us.

 

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10 minutes ago, Lin3 said:

Goktsu, if you were to take HE fire damage away from ships that rely on this damage to stay competitive, eg US light cruisers, Soviet cruisers up to tier 9, Japanese cruisers, including the Zao - how would you balance these ships?

 

Give them mega torps?

Give them much better AP shells? Or HE shells that do more impact damage but start fewer fires?

Make these cruisers much more durable?

Give them 20km range radars that last for 2 minutes?

 

Or some other ridiculous, unrealistic, make the game even more arcadey balancing mechanic?

I don't have a solution that is WG problem.

Just the HE element fire to damage ratio is too good right now to pass .

I personally think they should of thought more about it perhaps not implement something that guarantee such easy damage without so much skill , its quite ridiculous to be honest. 

 

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1 hour ago, Goktsu said:

I can literally chill in the back with my cruiser in a battle and just get 1 or 2 HE fires off on an enemy Battleship and literally do nothing for the 30-50 sec and when i check back his HP is already around 50% HP. In comparaison if i hop in my battleship using mainly AP and do a comparaison of my damages in an excel sheet for the last 7 days, between me using HE on my cruisers and using AP on my battleship there is a large significant GAP in damage which clearly shows the best damage output is HE hands down it beats AP every-time.

 

I now sincerely believe HE does not require skills and for me it is  an AFK damage dealing ability and one of the laziest way to deal constant afk damage in a game, in comparaison when i use AP shells this  definitely require more skills and precise aiming you have less chance to cause significant damage  while my HE shells can just drop randomly somewhere on a ship and just burn my target down while i am drinking my coffee.

Now i know why battleship are so timid and do not want to push can't blame you guys:Smile_child: . When i burn somebody down i don't pat myself and say" dam that was good " instead every time the thought in my mind " HE fire did 80% of the work you did 20%"

Then you are a bad BB player. The server stats clearly show that most BB outperform same Tier cruiser in damage.

And in case you did not notice, cruiser spam HE at BB since 2015, hardly new...

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11 minutes ago, Goktsu said:

Its a simple formula  :

 

Formulas:

Probability of event A occurring P(A) = n(A) / n(S).
Probability of event A not occurring P(A') = 1 - P(A)

 

Probability of event that occurs P(A) : 0.63     (HE fire AFK significant damage)

Probability of event that occurs P(A) :  0.20      (Compared to AP)

 

 

PE3D17D.gif

 

sorry but that means nothing to back up your claims my friend.:Smile_sceptic:

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2 minutes ago, Goktsu said:

I don't have a solution that is WG problem.

 

That is the thing, there is no issue, aside the ones in your head that is.

 

2 minutes ago, Goktsu said:

Just the HE element fire to damage ratio is too good right now to pass .

 

Erm, no its not, only in your head, as stats suggest.

 

2 minutes ago, Goktsu said:

I personally think they should of thought more about it perhaps not implement something that guarantee such easy damage without so much skill , its quite ridiculous to be honest. 

 

You "thinking" does not seem to be a thing, look at your OP...

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4 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

We're not asking for common math, we're asking for your data. You know, the numbers you use to back up your claim.

Since you have them (see first post) just show them to us.

 

I just gave you the number, the data was collected from past guild fights battles since i ask members feedback on a series of battle that occurred during a certain period. Questions such as TDMG output during battle, shell choices HE/AP, ships. Then trowing those numbers and doing a probability analysis. But you seem to move away from  the fact that my main point is HE is a lazy AFK damage type ability, that is what i am trying to say. Mainly because the skill factor to light someone on fire with HE is quite easy.   And you can get away doing some good damage with it quite easily.

 

4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Then you are a bad BB player. The server stats clearly show that most BB outperform same Tier cruiser in damage.

And in case you did not notice, cruiser spam HE at BB since 2015, hardly new...

I don't think you understand  the differences probability and event occurrence which are not the same calculation of the server stats.

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3 minutes ago, Goktsu said:

I just gave you the number, the data was collected from past guild fights battles since i ask members feedback on a series of battle that occurred during a certain period. Questions such as TDMG output during battle, shell choices HE/AP, ships. Then trowing those numbers and doing a probability analysis. But you seem to move away from  the fact that my main point is HE is a lazy AFK damage type ability, that is what i am trying to say. Mainly because the skill factor to light someone on fire with HE is quite easy.   And you can get away doing some good damage with it quite easily.

Let me give you my number: 0.89489621569452

 

See what I did there?

You claim you have data to back up your claim; give us the data. The only reason I see for your reluctance to provide the data is that it's skewed.

So yes, now I just called you a dishonest person that tries to be intellectual but isn't.

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