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AdmiralEnderWiggin

Improve 203 mm guns reload cruisers

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We are glad to see 203 mm of the DM starting with 5,5 sec reload  time;  Moskva is lift 220 shells mm in 10,3 sec ;  H.4 reload time is 12, 4. Follow the logic, the size and tech ,weight of shell is increase the time reload, that is a fact . What is happen to Zao reload time is 13, 7 , bad tech  and Hindy 11 sec to lift 230 mm shells ? Zao is receive recently a 12km torps range improved , that is good.   How about decrease reload time for both with 2 seconds and bring 11,5 kms torps range for Hindy ?                          1.Users of the Zao can decrease and have 11,7 sec reload of the main guns.        2. Users of the Hindy have 9 seconds main guns reload and improve torps to 10,5 kms.        3. Users of the DM have 8 seconds guns reload.     4. Improve the Maneuverability , speed and  HE burn  probability to17% for Hindy .   5. Adapt rate of Fire for 203mm guns, i'm not Einstein.

d1.pngd2.pngd3.pngd4.pngd5.png

 

 

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Is it me or is the text aligned slightly weird?

 

Anyway. 2 things come to mind:

- Hindy doesnt need to be turned into yet another HE-Spammer. Give it better AP-penetration tho (going to hurt pretty much only BBs)

- Id also suggest to take a look at the interaction over the tiers. T8 Takao/Atago with 16 sec reload on 203mm... :fish_panic:

 

But actually I think the problem is, that other ships have too fast reload. When Jean Bart comes with MRB, it will reload faster when active than the Takao. Right. Ok. Kronshtadt also has base 18,5 sec reload. Yeye, I know, its T9 vs T8, but the powercreep is visible.

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2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Anyway. 2 things come to mind:

- Hindy doesnt need to be turned into yet another HE-Spammer. Give it better AP-penetration tho (going to hurt pretty much only BBs)

- Id also suggest to take a look at the interaction over the tiers. T8 Takao/Atago with 16 sec reload on 203mm... :fish_panic:

Hindenburg doesn't need better AP pen. It's ammunition is fine as is.

Atago is not a dpm cruiser. Reload is long, but for being essentially a Mogami that is not squishy and has proper torpedo angles, that's fine. And 203 mm Mogami is just straight up worse, as 1 second reload doesn't justify lack of heal and being overmatchable everywhere.

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1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

And 203 mm Mogami is just straight up worse

And nobody plays that for a reason....

 

1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

Atago is [..] not squishy

 say WHAT? I citadel the living h3ll out of Atago/Takao with my Chapayev...

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the reason zao's has a longer reload if for balance.

 

the zaos has a extra turret over the des moine so more potential damage per salvo on top of that the zao's ap max damage is better with 5400 over the 5000 the des moine has.

 

and finally while not a massive difference the zaos has better rage at 16.2km vs the dm's 15.8km

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16 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Uhm, what?

 

These ships are pretty balanced. No need to mess around with them.

O really, and you missing Zao 12kms torps ? WOW is have enough time to balanced the Tier X, in new patch until, more players of Ca is coming, that is named : flexibility, communication and is the key for Progress.

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, AdmiralEnderWiggin said:

We are glad to see 203 mm of the DM starting with 5,5 sec reload  time;  Moskva is lift 220 shells mm in 10,3 sec ;  H.4 reload time is 12, 4. Follow the logic, the size and tech ,weight of shell is increase the time reload, that is a fact . What is happen to Zao reload time is 13, 7 , bad tech  and Hindy 11 sec to lift 230 mm shells ? Zao is receive recently a 12km torps range improved , that is good.   How about decrease reload time for both with 2 seconds and bring 11,5 kms torps range for Hindy ?                          1.Users of the Zao can decrease and have 11,7 sec reload of the main guns.        2. Users of the Hindy have 9 seconds main guns reload and improve torps to 10,5 kms.        3. Users of the DM have 8 seconds guns reload.     4. Improve the Maneuverability , speed and  HE burn  probability to17% for Hindy .   5. Adapt rate of Fire for 203mm guns, i'm not Einstein.

d1.pngd2.pngd3.pngd4.pngd5.png

 

 

Ships have have more specifications that just reload...

If you are interested in balance, you should look at server performance, not just ship specifications.

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Yeah, so if you only look at the (partial mind you) number of the ships you could come to a conclusion as the one being formulated by OP.

However if you look at the results from the cruisers then they are pretty evenly matched. So really, what's the need again to go mess up the balance between tier X cruisers?

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Ships have have more specifications that just reload...

If you are interested in balance, you should look at server performance, not just ship specifications.

''One image is make more of thousand words'' Some can say them are very, very balanced and isn't need to change absolutely nothing, so isn't want any words about them or any progress.

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6 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

And nobody plays that for a reason....

 

 say WHAT? I citadel the living h3ll out of Atago/Takao with my Chapayev...

Broadside, what T8 cruiser doesn't get citadelled to death? CM and Hipper are kinda ok, but all of them die fast when you don't agle. Thing is, Atago has a mid deck that bounces BB shells, most cruisers don't have that (not even Hipper and Prinz Eugen). Also, a repair party. 

1 minute ago, AdmiralEnderWiggin said:

O really, and you missing Zao 12kms torps ? WOW is have enough time to balanced the Tier X, in new patch until, more players of Ca is coming, that is named : flexibility, communication and is the key for Progress.

Yes, it has 12 km torps, good concealment, long reload to balance it out compared to Des Moines with short reload, no torps, or Hindenburg with shorter reload but shorter ranged torps.

 

There is no need to tweak them, they are fine.

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4 minutes ago, AdmiralEnderWiggin said:

''One image is make more of thousand words'' Some can say them are very, very balanced and isn't need to change absolutely nothing, so isn't want any words about them or any progress.

Ships are not balanced by images either....

Look at the SERVER PERFORMANCE....

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5 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

Yeah, so if you only look at the (partial mind you) number of the ships you could come to a conclusion as the one being formulated by OP.

However if you look at the results from the cruisers then they are pretty evenly matched. So really, what's the need again to go mess up the balance between tier X cruisers?

I found DM, Moskva and H4 is balanced , just the three circle of them  exclude  others and Hindy and Zao( before have 12km torps) is both balanced against each other, but out of the circle of the three.

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2 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Broadside, what T8 cruiser doesn't get citadelled to death? CM and Hipper are kinda ok, but all of them die fast when you don't agle. Thing is, Atago has a mid deck that bounces BB shells, most cruisers don't have that (not even Hipper and Prinz Eugen). Also, a repair party. 

Yes, it has 12 km torps, good concealment, long reload to balance it out compared to Des Moines with short reload, no torps, or Hindenburg with shorter reload but shorter ranged torps.

 

There is no need to tweak them, they are fine.

What about tier 8, i agree the points , but the topics is about tier X  or not ?

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5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Broadside, what T8 cruiser doesn't get citadelled to death? CM and Hipper are kinda ok, but all of them die fast when you don't agle.

 

You conveniently left out the part, that we are tlking about 152mm AP... not BBs. Even Edinburgh is more tanky in that matter. Ever tried 152mm AP on Cleveland? Gimme a break.

8 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Thing is, Atago has a mid deck that bounces BB shells, most cruisers don't have that (not even Hipper and Prinz Eugen). Also, a repair party. 

 

Eugen has repair Party, Hipper and Eugen can bowtank many of the BBs they meet.

 

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1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

Hindenburg doesn't need better AP pen. It's ammunition is fine as is.

 

Why not? DM can citadel BBs, Moskva can Citadel BBs. Hindenburg is supposed to be strong AP ship, yet it has the weakest penetration of them all. I dont know about Zao, but doesnt it have best AP penetration compared to DM/Hindi?

The funny thing is, just 15 mins ago i was talking about it, and went to test if there is a possibility to citadel BBs with Hindenburg. I need to go within 1,2km of a Yamato to get citadel hits below his turret. Republique belt cant be penned, neither does GKs. NC belt pen yes, citadel didnt work. Izumo also nope.


Ppl want to punish BBs, yet a buff to a Cruiser which would hurt BBs everyone goes like "NONO its fine"

 

1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

Atago is not a dpm cruiser. Reload is long, but for being essentially a Mogami that is not squishy and has proper torpedo angles, that's fine. And 203 mm Mogami is just straight up worse, as 1 second reload doesn't justify lack of heal and being overmatchable everywhere.

 

?! Takao/Atago is armored basicly the same way Mogami is. How is that thing not squishy... oh ye... deck armor, makes perfect sense, maybe you can teach me how to intentionally make a BB shoot there :cap_hmm:

203mm Mogami is straight up worse than 155mm IFHE Mogami. So says a lot about 203mm guns :cap_hmm: DPM is lower, damage per salvo is also lower. Everyone saying 203s are fine is basicly lying.

And before we start with "AP is better" Clearly Mogami is played as a brawler where AP comes in handy... not :cap_fainting:Most likely anything you can hurt with 203mm AP you will still deal more damage with the lower caliber higher ROF.

 

Im not necessarily saying that T10 Cruisers need a reload buff, but sure as hell there are others which actually would need one:

- Roon reload nerf was just stupid. Its not nearly as strong as a Hindi is.

- Takao/Atago/Mogami 203s i would instantly buff reload 2-3 sec. And they wont overperform.

- Kinda many other 203mm guns on those tiers, since they are just straight up worse than the CLs are these days.

CAs arent really tankier than CLs, if anything they die even faster when they make a mistake. Also CAs cant punish non broadsiding CLs, because the armor is too strong. Unlike midtier RN CLs, which actually can be punished by 203mm guns.

 

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22 minutes ago, AdmiralEnderWiggin said:

What about tier 8, i agree the points , but the topics is about tier X  or not ?

 

You cant look at T10 only and ignore T9 and T8. Thats the thing. Thats why also you (among a few other quirks) your initial post lacks the entire picture. With the logic you used, I can pick 2 BBs on any Tier and argue, that one of them needs a huge buff. Atago was just an obvious example. Didnt meant to take over the topic, but people jumped on it.

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guys, incase it isnt obvious: ITS A TROLL.

 

just check its last thread: 

 

Dont feed the troll, just let the thread die, please, for once.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, WolfGewehr said:

Here we go again. Previous part:

 

 

yup, he's back. And still as incoherent as ever.

 

God I wish we had Skybuck back, at least that guy had a weird sort of quality to his idiotic trolling...

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3 hours ago, AdmiralEnderWiggin said:

We are glad to see 203 mm of the DM starting with 5,5 sec reload  time;  Moskva is lift 220 shells mm in 10,3 sec ;  H.4 reload time is 12, 4. Follow the logic, the size and tech ,weight of shell is increase the time reload, that is a fact . What is happen to Zao reload time is 13, 7 , bad tech  and Hindy 11 sec to lift 230 mm shells ? Zao is receive recently a 12km torps range improved , that is good.   How about decrease reload time for both with 2 seconds and bring 11,5 kms torps range for Hindy ?                          1.Users of the Zao can decrease and have 11,7 sec reload of the main guns.        2. Users of the Hindy have 9 seconds main guns reload and improve torps to 10,5 kms.        3. Users of the DM have 8 seconds guns reload.     4. Improve the Maneuverability , speed and  HE burn  probability to17% for Hindy .   5. Adapt rate of Fire for 203mm guns, i'm not Einstein.

tenor.gif?itemid=5169282

 

Then I want 0,5 sec for the 128mm on my Z-52.

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5 hours ago, AdmiralEnderWiggin said:

I found DM, Moskva and H4 is balanced , just the three circle of them  exclude  others and Hindy and Zao( before have 12km torps) is both balanced against each other, but out of the circle of the three.

So, after 2600+ games in the hindi ( and not a single other tier X cruiser, only 50+ Monqueror games ) you came to this conclusion.

Has it ever occured to you that Hindi might not be the ship for you? That you need to look for another ship that fits your playstyle? And that the tier X cruisers are in fact pretty well balanced as a whole and you just have trouble fitting into the role of your ship?

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288 posts
9,321 battles
nation class tier name players total battles average of rates
battles win draw lose exp damage
caused
warship
destroyed
aircraft
destoryed
base
capture
base
defense
survived kill /
death
agro
damage
spot
damage
hit
ratio
JP CA 10 Zao 1283 27411 21.36 49.26 0.02 50.72 1537 79063 0.84 0.86 6.39 6.57 44.50 1.51 976738 24141 35.22
KM CA 10 Hindenburg 1469 30215 20.57 47.65 0.02 52.32 1468 69979 0.67 1.06 4.41 6.48 39.20 1.10 1147147 21570 30.60
MN CA 10 Henri IV 483 9561 19.80 50.65 0.00 49.35 1616 84829 0.87 1.10 5.35 5.84 41.99 1.50 1262550 20901 32.61
RN CA 10 Minotaur 853 18164 21.29 49.06 0.02 50.92 1482 62252 0.86 2.24 11.39 6.87 34.38 1.31 812844 16804

28.84

SN CA 10 Moskva 637 13194 20.71 49.00 0.03 50.98 1498 73371 0.73 0.99 4.50 7.70 39.04 1.20 1375322 21222 35.82
SN CA 10 Stalingrad 145 3336 23.01 64.49 0.00 35.51 2139 114320 1.43 1.58 5.50 7.69 46.93 2.69 1654033 27535 40.87
US CA 10 Des Moines 1419 30197 21.28 49.37 0.00 50.63 1564 67572 0.82 2.00 6.64 7.28 33.69 1.24 1032013 19304 30.54
US CA 10 Salem 264 6490 24.58 47.61 0.02 52.37 1461 69192 0.81 2.07 7.04 6.60 32.30 1.20 1099386 16914 31.78
US CA 10 Worcester 960 21142 22.02 53.06 0.01 46.94 1697 75072 0.92 3.07 8.50 9.61 41.86 1.58 966538 20215 26.48

Source: Suihei Koubou

 

I think TX CA balance is fine. Even Stalin will agree.

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