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US light cruser line

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Could anyone tell me if Dallas and Helena have the same retarded battery arcs as Cleveland, where shells stop for a picnic mid-air?

If so, then I won't even bother with the line.

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The greatest advantage this line has is it's shell arcs . learn to use it 

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I don't see the big advantage in abysmal shell travel times. The longer it takes the further you have to predict what the opponent will do, and more likely he'll do something else.

 

I guess it is good for island hugging and spray and pray, but miss me with that gay sht :D

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3 hours ago, Atorpad said:

The greatest advantage this line has is it's shell arcs . learn to use it 

It's a double-edged sword. It enables some island camping. But as a DD, some Chapayev or Mogami is scarier than a Cleveland.

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5 hours ago, Riselotte said:

It's a double-edged sword. It enables some island camping. But as a DD, some Chapayev or Mogami is scarier than a Cleveland.

Sure it is but i think first priority target for US CL is a BB not DD despite of having radar + hydro !!!

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It would have been interesting of WG had cooked up some fantasy 'supercharge' HE rounds as a unique consumable for some of the ships in the US line. I guess DD's don't need another counter, but this would at least help the Cleveland and others in mid-range firefights with other cruisers.

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3 hours ago, Atorpad said:

Sure it is but i think first priority target for US CL is a BB not DD despite of having radar + hydro !!!

Imo, the only reason to prioritise BB over DD is to remove the roadblock that keeps you from going against the DD. If you have a chance at murdering a DD or cruiser instead without getting confronted with a BB, it's a much better idea with greater influence on the game. But for successfully hunting a DD, you need to be a good shot and catch them at a decent range. At anything except close range though...

Spoiler

shot-18_09.16_00_57.08-0856.thumb.jpg.7b4872887e2f2e08c894bf909cfbf334.jpg

Want to guess the ship? It's one of those that typically have to fear getting radared and murdered by an Atlanta and it has little issue doing this to something like Dallas, or even favourably trading with Helena, Boise or Cleveland, as soon as it approaches 8+ km.

 

In that sense, if a Shchors, Myoko or Yorck can keep their range, they can be pretty hard to deal with as well for the Helena, if they are actively evading shells. at close range, Helena can even crap on T8 cruisers though, no issue whasoever. 

3 hours ago, Centurion_1711 said:

It would have been interesting of WG had cooked up some fantasy 'supercharge' HE rounds as a unique consumable for some of the ships in the US line. I guess DD's don't need another counter, but this would at least help the Cleveland and others in mid-range firefights with other cruisers.

At mid-range, the issue is accuracy, not dpm. More dpm is not the solution if you cannot hit a thing. and if you hit... these cruisers out-dpm the other nations already.

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4 hours ago, Riselotte said:

At mid-range, the issue is accuracy, not dpm. More dpm is not the solution if you cannot hit a thing. and if you hit... these cruisers out-dpm the other nations already.

The supercharges would only improve the velocity of the shells, and so their accuracy at mid to long range. For example, the consumable could up the muzzle velocity to 890-920m/s for a few salvoes, allowing you to get some hits in and either finish off the other ship, or force them to back off. The damage of the HE shells would still be 2200, just they would fly faster to begin with. However, The 6"/47 HE shells seem to have massive amounts of drag in WoWs, so it may not help much.

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31 minutes ago, Centurion_1711 said:

The supercharges would only improve the velocity of the shells, and so their accuracy at mid to long range. For example, the consumable could up the muzzle velocity to 890-920m/s for a few salvoes, allowing you to get some hits in and either finish off the other ship, or force them to back off. The damage of the HE shells would still be 2200, just they would fly faster to begin with. However, The 6"/47 HE shells seem to have massive amounts of drag in WoWs, so it may not help much.

Certainly not OP... Wouldn't just throw out the balance between something like Helena and Shchors. US arcs have their advantages and disadvantages and you got to live with them. 

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1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

Certainly not OP... Wouldn't just throw out the balance between something like Helena and Shchors. US arcs have their advantages and disadvantages and you got to live with them.

Don't get me wrong, I quite enjoy the shell trajectories on US ships (except for the DD's perhaps). I much prefer them over, say, the shell arcs on Shchors or Konigsberg because the US arcs are more predictable. The other two have high muzzle velocities, but lightweight shells mean that at range both have rather floaty shells. The US heavy cruisers, on the other hand, have similar arcs across their entire flight. The whole supercharge idea was just a suggestion, and like the French reload booster it would offer a unique play style. Because let's be honest, no new line in WoWs is complete without gimmicks in today's game.

 

I suppose my biggest gripe with the US CL's is their poor AP performance. For me, HE spamming isn't all that fun by itself, and I like to have the option of switching to AP if I see a cruiser broadside on. Also, the HE-centric gameplay means that you need IFHE to make an impact, when something like Concealment Expert might be a good alternative skill. Also, why does the 6"/47 'super-heavy' AP do 3200 damage, while French or Russian 6" AP does 3300 damage? Surely US 6" A should be in the region of 3600 damage with that shell weight.

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22 minutes ago, Centurion_1711 said:

Don't get me wrong, I quite enjoy the shell trajectories on US ships (except for the DD's perhaps). I much prefer them over, say, the shell arcs on Shchors or Konigsberg because the US arcs are more predictable. The other two have high muzzle velocities, but lightweight shells mean that at range both have rather floaty shells. The US heavy cruisers, on the other hand, have similar arcs across their entire flight. The whole supercharge idea was just a suggestion, and like the French reload booster it would offer a unique play style. Because let's be honest, no new line in WoWs is complete without gimmicks in today's game.

 

I suppose my biggest gripe with the US CL's is their poor AP performance. For me, HE spamming isn't all that fun by itself, and I like to have the option of switching to AP if I see a cruiser broadside on. Also, the HE-centric gameplay means that you need IFHE to make an impact, when something like Concealment Expert might be a good alternative skill. Also, why does the 6"/47 'super-heavy' AP do 3200 damage, while French or Russian 6" AP does 3300 damage? Surely US 6" A should be in the region of 3600 damage with that shell weight.

Nürnberg AP shell weight: 46 kg

Helena AP shell weight: 59 kg

Shchors AP shell weight: 55 kg

Mogami AP shell weight: 56 kg

La Galissoniere AP shell weight: 57 kg

 

Nürnberg HE shell weight: 46 kg

Helena HE shell weight: 48 kg

Shchors HE shell weight: 55 kg

Mogami HE shell weight: 56 kg

La Galissoniere HE shell weight: 55 kg

 

Königsberg has lightweight shells (same as Nürnberg), yes, but Shchors? Shchors AP is almost as heavy as Helena AP, but her HE has the same heavy weight, while Helena's HE is almost on German levels. Russian shells aren't lightweight, nor are they floaty (the sole reason USN shells don't surpase Russian floatiness at 16 km and up is because they don't have that kind of range. But there is a reason why a Chapa can nail DDs consistently 10 km away, a Cleveland cannot. In gun handling, apart from the island camping business (just don't hug the island too closely?), Russians have more comfortable guns, from not having two different shell characteristica for AP and HE to shell flight time to penetration on target.

 

USN CLs basically need CE and IFHE, CE best by T5-6, IFHE by T6-7. CE is not an alternative to IFHE, the ships are basically crap without both.

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Reaching back to this (nice!) new US light cruiser line, I've taken a moment to compare the win-rates for Tiers 6 u/i 10 (CA verus CL). 

Important to add here first is that of course the total number of battles is still very much lower for the CL's compared to the CA's. 

 

Format: first CA (Heavy Cruiser), then CL (Light Cruiser) 

 

  • T6: Pensacola 49.70% versus Dallas 53.17% 
  • T7: New Orleans 49.43% versus Helena 52.95% (and premium: Indianapolis 50.04%, Boise 53.66%, Nueve de Julio 53.56%, Altanta 49.52%) 
  • T8: Baltimore 50.71% versus Cleveland 50.92% ---> these are actually the only ones really close to eachother! 
  • T9: Buffalo 49.34% versus Seattle 52.43% 
  • T10: Des Moines 49.73% and Salem 48.27% versus Worcester 52.63%

 

(source: wows-numbers data) 

 

Notice how in 4 out of 5 cases, the CL actually ends up with a 2 to 3% higher win-rate, so far! 

It will be interesting to see how this develops in future, as I don't see any other country + ship type combination which features so many ships as these US cruisers! 

 

On the whole, for Tiers 1 thru 10, there are even 23 US cruisers in the game (unless I miscounted). 

And then we have Charleston, Wichita and Alaska on the horizon... which will take the total up to 26! 

 

Of course these are just the numbers, and there is so much more to a ship than that! 

However, I found it worthwhile to examine these results and see how different they often are. 

 

Looking at the ones mentioned above, my personal favourites are definitely Cleveland, Helena and Seattle, so far. 

With the pair of Tier 6 cruisers, I feel a lot less affinity.... 

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On 9/16/2018 at 5:11 PM, Centurion_1711 said:

Don't get me wrong, I quite enjoy the shell trajectories on US ships (except for the DD's perhaps). I much prefer them over, say, the shell arcs on Shchors or Konigsberg because the US arcs are more predictable. The other two have high muzzle velocities, but lightweight shells mean that at range both have rather floaty shells. The US heavy cruisers, on the other hand, have similar arcs across their entire flight. The whole supercharge idea was just a suggestion, and like the French reload booster it would offer a unique play style. Because let's be honest, no new line in WoWs is complete without gimmicks in today's game.

 

I suppose my biggest gripe with the US CL's is their poor AP performance. For me, HE spamming isn't all that fun by itself, and I like to have the option of switching to AP if I see a cruiser broadside on. Also, the HE-centric gameplay means that you need IFHE to make an impact, when something like Concealment Expert might be a good alternative skill. Also, why does the 6"/47 'super-heavy' AP do 3200 damage, while French or Russian 6" AP does 3300 damage? Surely US 6" A should be in the region of 3600 damage with that shell weight.

AP alpha damage is dependent on muzzle velocity AND weights, not weight alone. That's why the superheavy USN 8" AP is only doing 5k dmg while the IJN and KM AP, while lighter, being faster do more. 

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28 minutes ago, piritskenyer said:

AP alpha damage is dependent on muzzle velocity AND weights, not weight alone. That's why the superheavy USN 8" AP is only doing 5k dmg while the IJN and KM AP, while lighter, being faster does more. 

Makes sense. I suppose that's why the 130mm/55 guns do 100 more alpha damage than the 130mm/50, when they fire the same shell. The muzzle velocity varies by just 30m/s. I don't know about German AP though, they artificially altered the alpha damage to give them some flavour against other cruiser lines.

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6 hours ago, Centurion_1711 said:

Makes sense. I suppose that's why the 130mm/55 guns do 100 more alpha damage than the 130mm/50, when they fire the same shell. The muzzle velocity varies by just 30m/s. I don't know about German AP though, they artificially altered the alpha damage to give them some flavour against other cruiser lines.

 18.588*((MV*AP shell weight)^0.4787)

 

This is the formula that WG seems to be using. 

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After the calm , there is a storm , after the storm there is an Atlanta rainbow

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I've just gotten IFHE on my Helena captain. Holy cow! What a difference! 6.2k damage opening salvoes on New Mexicos (dwindling down as they get saturated).

 

HE citadels on Rangers!

 

The Helena's not the Helena without IFHE!

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1) bit of a necro

2) that's true for ALL light cruisers from at least t6.

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Better to necro than start a new thread.

 

With the Helena pumping out 15 shells every 8 seconds and getting gentle matchmaking and therefore meeting a lot of tier 5 to 7 BB's, IFHE - from what I've seen so far, appears to be more important on the Helena than any other pixel ship I've sailed in.

 

And the Helena is a DPM beast with IFHE in a way that the Dallas and Cleveland aren't with IFHE.

 

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40 minutes ago, Lin3 said:

And the Helena is a DPM beast with IFHE in a way that the Dallas and Cleveland aren't with IFHE.

Uhm, what? Cleveland dpm is insane.

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3 hours ago, Lin3 said:

And the Helena is a DPM beast with IFHE in a way that the Dallas and Cleveland aren't with IFHE.

ALL US CLs are dpm-machines and the dpm goes up each time you go up a tier.

Spoiler

 

Same HE-shells so only number of shells counts.

 

Dallas: 10guns/8,5s reload = 1.18 shells/s

Helena: 15/8.5s = 1.76/s

Cleveland: 12/6.5s = 1.85/s

Seattle (with reload mod): 12/5.72s = 2.1/s

Worchester (with reload mod): 12/4s = 3/s

 

 

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14 hours ago, Seiranko said:

Uhm, what? Cleveland dpm is insane.

Cleveland shoots 110.4 rounds per minute, with tier 8 matchmaking.

Helena shoots 106.5 rounds per minute, with the much kinder tier 7 matchmaking.

 

Tier for tier, Helena dpm with IFHE is more insane.

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8 hours ago, Lin3 said:

Cleveland shoots 110.4 rounds per minute, with tier 8 matchmaking.

Helena shoots 106.5 rounds per minute, with the much kinder tier 7 matchmaking.

 

Tier for tier, Helena dpm with IFHE is more insane.

That is true (apart from it being 105.9 rounds per minute on Helena vs 110.8 on Cleveland), but still no reason to state the Cleveland can't throw out dpm. Because Cleveland still is the highest dpm cruiser at T8 by a wide margin. It doesn't throw much more shells out, but it throws out a little bit more and still way more than any other cruiser at its tier. Dismissing it is like dismissing the Kitakaze dpm for being just the reload mod ontop of the Akizuki.

Spoiler

dpm4-1-1024x617.thumb.png.0305d0af353ed246499faa2da3108667.png

From LWM's Irian review. Caption reads:

"Sustained DPM" means damage done over 10 minutes. This allows for Charles Martel to make use of all 5 possible charges of her Main Battery Reload Booster consumable which gives a better indication of the damage potential over the course of a game.  Over a single minute, Charles Martel puts out just over 300,000 AP DPM and 170,000 HE, surpassing everything except Cleveland.  Irian shares the same damage output as her Soviet-sisters which is pretty darned good.

 

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