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howardxu_23

Quality of matches in low-mid tier vs high tier

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Just needed somewhere to rant a bit, I had 2 matches, 1 decent and 1 horrendous. Both win a div with my nagato and my brother in A Hull New Orleans(still grinding)

 

The first battle was t5 dominated battle with 2 bouges on each side. The battle was a really close one, but was enjoyable and people there were civilised, we still lost but we had fun.

 

the 2nd one was a t8 heavy match with no cvs but have a t9 on each side( Missouri on red and mushashi on blue), with me and my bro being the only t7, with a scarnhost and  New Orleans on the other side for the other t7. Our DD then suicided into Missouri’s Radar, then complained that I’m not giving support.(how do you expect a 25mm covered bb to survive a t9 bb?)then started ranting about noob team. Our mushashi then went to the ones of the map, and mentioned that he has spotter plane and should be sniping from his immunity zone. The good news is that enemy team Missouri went afk for some reason, so my brother set permefires on him and he was despatched quickly.

 

At 2 mins to the clock, Enemy Bismarck was looked upon by RNGeus, and killed me(I had aready taken significant damage before, screw 25mm everywhere) but at that same moment, my shells make contact with their Baltimore and vaporised her, giving us a 50 point lead as a result. Now all we had to do is to survive. My Brother knows that, so he ceased fire completely and started fleeing. Our Bismarck on the other hand, intend on throwing the game, decided to charge the New Orleans while on 4000 hp. Everyone was screaming at him in chat to cease fire and run. He landed 1 citidel on the NO, but the NO survived. The NO then landed a full salvo of AP on Bismarck’s side(he was aready throwing the game, so showing broadside is the most logical soulution.) killing him, giving the enemy a points advantage at 20s to the clock, and the game ended with a loss.

 

did not have a screenshot since my parents yelled at me to go outdoors instead of staying cooped up, but I can tell you that I managed to top the scoreboard, with the mushasi and the suicideing dd at the bottom, and the derpmark taking the 2nd slot, with my brother in third.

TLDR: in other games, high potato to low ascended potatoes at lower tiers, vice versa in higher tiers, wows is the other way around.

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The only thing I find in lower tier battles is that it's easier to excuse stupid play. A team mate in a T3, 4 or even 5 ship steaming full broadside and getting wrecked is much less infuriating than a T10 BB doing the same. At T4 you think that Myogi still has to learn, at T10 you wonder how that Yamato got through seven tiers of easily citadelled BBs and still hasn't learned.

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41 minutes ago, howardxu_23 said:

TLDR: in other games, high potato to low ascended potatoes at lower tiers, vice versa in higher tiers, wows is the other way around.

QFT.

 

Just stay away from high-tiers. No fun & toxic.

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1 hour ago, howardxu_23 said:

Our mushashi then went to the ones of the map, and mentioned that he has spotter plane and should be sniping from his immunity zone.

Ok, that's a high grade BBaby with a boost from history interest - I'm almost impressed :Smile_trollface:

 

1 hour ago, howardxu_23 said:

TLDR: in other games, high potato to low ascended potatoes at lower tiers, vice versa in higher tiers, wows is the other way around.

This is a misconception. A common one, but a misconception nonetheless. At high tier the overall skill level is higher than at middle tiers. However (well, partially because of that) mistakes are punished more harshly. Partially it's due to ships, weapons and consumables that make an appearance or at least are more common up there. Partially it's due to players. Regardless, the result is that a stupid decision that one would get away with at tier 5 is pretty much a suicide at t10 - because enemies have the range to punish you, the skill to actually hit you beyond point-blank range and some of them even enough situational awareness to notice you making a lethal mistake.

All that said, high tiers have, of course, plenty absolute potatoes. There's no skill filter preventing them from ascending. But they aren't any more numerous than at middle tiers - there is less of them but they are more noticeable because they stand out (negatively) more.

If you don't believe me, look up some of the potatoes (preferably these mild ones, around 45-48% winrate range) and look at their WR across the tiers. You'll see that the higher the tier, the worse their results. It's not because they're regressing and playing worse and worse - it's because they reach tiers where their lack of skill is punished more harshly. And it only gets worse the higher they go (with added impact of always being top tier at t10 and never being in the less consequential -2 MM at t9).

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I play a lot of low and mid tier games, mostly because I find them more enjoyable by and large, but it's not all sunshine and roses. At times, you get people in tier VI or VII ships that don't seem to know how capping works and why it is important, why not to show broadside etc.

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19 minutes ago, eliastion said:

the skill to actually hit you beyond point-blank range

Also the accuracy. Fuso can shoot almost as far as Yamato or Republique when it pops spotter plane, but 1.5 sigma vs 2 and higher makes a difference.

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32 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Snip 

So potatoness is more obvious at higher tiers then at lower tiers, but on the other hand trying to delete BBs these days is hard without big guns, but big guns on the other hand means more overpen on CLs, but CAs gets vaporised more often as a result.

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Ok, that's a high grade BBaby with a boost from history interest - I'm almost impressed 

I have shown broadside cause that is what navel tactics told me in the kawachi, you can guess how that went:fish_boom:

Most importantly, immunity zones don’t really work here, they were designed to work in excess of 20km, far outside of the ranges that the compressed nature of wows, which effectively makes turtle back more effective as a side effect

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11 minutes ago, eliastion said:

If you don't believe me, look up some of the potatoes (preferably these mild ones, around 45-48% winrate range) and look at their WR across the tiers. You'll see that the higher the tier, the worse their results. It's not because they're regressing and playing worse and worse - it's because they reach tiers where their lack of skill is punished more harshly.

 

That is one reason. However, some of them actually do get worse. Like the BBs, that have "learned": If I go to the front - I die! I have 20km+ range for a reason! Or the DDs, that have "learned": If I contest the cap, im gonna get killed. So I rather go outside of the map and farm my damage! And the game actually rewards players like that. Only yesterday someone posted a screen of a full HP Kurfürst, that borderhugged the entire game, while his team was losing. He got most XP. So he thinks "I did good".

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8 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Or the DDs, that have "learned": If I contest the cap, im gonna get killed. So I rather go outside of the map and farm my damage!

Well, as a DD main I'm more intimate with this part, so I'll comment on it - while it's regrettable, it's not necessarily the worst situation. A DD incapable of contesting caps without dying right away is certainly a burden on the team - but even such a DD has more value than a dead DD. Even by just trying to farm damage, these DDs involuntarily can provide some spotting and limit the operations of enemy DDs, even significantly more skilled.

A DD that "learned" to avoid caps is therefore less of a potato that a DD that gets into caps but does it so badly that it becomes a free kill for the enemy more often than not. Of course it would be better to learn how to contest caps instead of learning not to do it at all - but while the latter is a dead-end when it comes to learning to play DDs (and you'd need to un-learn it to become a decent DD player), it still takes the player in question a bit further than learning nothing at all.

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2 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Well, as a DD main I'm more intimate with this part, so I'll comment on it - while it's regrettable, it's not necessarily the worst situation. A DD incapable of contesting caps without dying right away is certainly a burden on the team - but even such a DD has more value than a dead DD. Even by just trying to farm damage, these DDs involuntarily can provide some spotting and limit the operations of enemy DDs, even significantly more skilled.

A DD that "learned" to avoid caps is therefore less of a potato that a DD that gets into caps but does it so badly that it becomes a free kill for the enemy more often than not. Of course it would be better to learn how to contest caps instead of learning not to do it at all - but while the latter is a dead-end when it comes to learning to play DDs (and you'd need to un-learn it to become a decent DD player), it still takes the player in question a bit further than learning nothing at all.

 

And there is still a difference between a DD, that farms damage effectivly for 20 mins and a DD, that goes A1-A10-J10, then spots the CV, doesnt know that he has guns, doesnt know that the CV can dodge his torps AND doesnt know that WASD surves any other purpose then to turn hard when that stupid white line magically disables your engine. :fish_panic:."Unskill" comes in many different shapes and sizes.

 

My personal experiance is, that Ive seen more potato-stuff on T10 then on any other Tier. 3xBB-Divisions are mostly T10. Ive lost 100% wins in T10 within the last 10 secs so many times, I can hardly keep track. Yet they are all so special, they are worth mentioning. Like a shima with 15 sec on the clock openes fire on a Yamato, that has just entered our base. We were 300 points or so ahead. For some reason, that Shima thought, the Yamato will cap in 14 sec. However, 7 sec later: shima dead. Or the other side of the story: Enemys have only 1 DD left, he makes a desperate move and tries to cap. We have also a DD in their cap, but he came in a little later. But no problem. We have a Bismarck camping in our spawn. Now is his time to shine. So he steers towards our base. The enemy DD gets nervous. He puffs his smoke. Bismarck almost in our base, would buy us the time we need to win. OH NOEZ! A SMOKE! DAT MEAN BAAAAD THINGS. Bismarck turns. Just missing the edge of our base by half a ships lenght. Ofc he also turned riiiight out of the torpspread headding his way, taking them all. We lost. Oooooor my desperate fight in a Mino in a CV game. with 30 sec on the clock I manage to bring down the enemy CV, turning the points in our favor. Just to see on the other side of the map: Our T10 CV rushed C cap. Riiiight where the enemys were. Broadside ofc. Im praying that they wont delete him. 20 sec later my neighbors wonder, why I through my keyboard out of the window. I gotta be honest: These super-special-things are rare on mid-tiers. And ive played way more there then T10.

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Our T10 CV rushed C cap.

In his defence, the CV UI is unwieldy. I have gotten myself killed due to that cause I’m used to having group 1 on 1, not control cv on 1.

 

Edit: just realised my post count as of this post is as big as mogami’s 155mm guns 

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