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Conqueror - 457 AP Shells, Any good?

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Hi all I know that the Conqueror BB has a formidable reputation as a fire starter, but I have failed to miss those 457mm Cannons it can mount. The curious one in me wants to know what the AP shells are like on these beasts?

 

Do they pack a punch? How do they differ from Yamato shells?

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5 minutes ago, HMS_Argosax said:

Hi all I know that the Conqueror BB has a formidable reputation as a fire starter, but I have failed to miss those 457mm Cannons it can mount. The curious one in me wants to know what the AP shells are like on these beasts?

 

Do they pack a punch? How do they differ from Yamato shells?

457/14.3=31.96

460/14.3=32.17

 

32 mm armor is the most common bow/stern armor. Yamato will overmatch it, Conqueror will bounce. Considering you are losing third of your guns also, you are just gimping yourself for no benefit.

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Yes, 14.3.

 

Quote

 If the armor thickness is less than 1/14.3 of shell's caliber, a ricochet does not occur regardless of armor encounter angle.

 

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7 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Yes, 14.3.

 

 

But in most cases where you are faced off with a bow/stern ship you will use HE anyway. I guess then applying the same calculation you have done to other tier x bb shells. The GK and Repub will also ricochet in those situations.

 

Thus by your calculation I infer that the yamato shells are penetration kings, but in the instance where broadsides are presented how would the Conq 457mm AP shells fair then?

 

They have a lower velocity than GK or Repub shells, but will they eat enemy hp like the yamato ones do?

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54 minutes ago, HMS_Argosax said:

But in most cases where you are faced off with a bow/stern ship you will use HE anyway.

Not if you can overmatch with your AP.

 

 

 

Lets make this fair and simple for you:

  • good Conquerer players use the 419mm guns
  • bad Conquerer players will use the 457mm guns

 

Any questions left?!

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58 minutes ago, principat121 said:

Lets make this fair and simple for you:

  • good Conquerer players use the 419mm guns
  • bad Conquerer players will use the 457mm guns

 

Any questions left?!

Sometimes I just like to show off those big 457mm guns...they look fantastic and quite different then all other tier 10s :Smile_playing:

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Putting a huge neon sign saying 'Look at me I love gimping myself' over your head looks fantastic and quite different as well.

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The only real advantage the 457 bring over the 419s is that their AP overmatches 30 mm cruiser plating. That's it. Same as Yamato and Republique. Just, Yamato overmatches BBs too, Republique fires faster. I do not have a Conqueror, but theorycrafting, it might be interesting to take the 457s and use the good Conqueror concealment to sneak up on cruisers and derp them with guns they cannot angle against. I expect it to not be peak performance though.

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16 hours ago, principat121 said:

Not if you can overmatch with your AP.

 

 

 

Lets make this fair and simple for you:

  • good Conquerer players use the 419mm guns
  • bad Conquerer players will use the 457mm guns

 

Any questions left?!

 

Whats the difference between using AP shells on the Republique and the Conqueror apart from reload buff on the Republique? The Conqueror ones do more damage ?

 

Why dont people answer the question I have asked rather than being snotty little smart asses

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7 minutes ago, HMS_Argosax said:

 

Whats the difference between using AP shells on the Republique and the Conqueror apart from reload buff on the Republique? The Conqueror ones do more damage ?

 

Why dont people answer the question I have asked rather than being snotty little smart asses

The French ones are "normal" AP. The british ones are short fuse AP.

The british AP is devastating to cruisers and DDs cause u have less chance of overpen, but "worse" on BBs.

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15 minutes ago, siramra said:

The French ones are "normal" AP. The british ones are short fuse AP.

The british AP is devastating to cruisers and DDs cause u have less chance of overpen, but "worse" on BBs.

ty

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1 hour ago, HMS_Argosax said:

ty

And to further answer your original question. I'd take the 419s over 457 cause of the AP.

U tend to sling more HE than AP. And more barrels, better reload and higher chance of hitting your targets is better than bigger size in this example.

I usually go for higher calibers myself, but not on this occation. Stick with those 419s.

I even have the ammoswapp skill on my captain, I tend to switch ammo alot in the Conq.

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13 minutes ago, siramra said:

And to further answer your original question. I'd take the 419s over 457 cause of the AP.

U tend to sling more HE than AP. And more barrels, better reload and higher chance of hitting your targets is better than bigger size in this example.

I usually go for higher calibers myself, but not on this occation. Stick with those 419s.

I even have the ammoswapp skill on my captain, I tend to switch ammo alot in the Conq.

 

I still dont understand why the 457s dont do alot of damage to BBs, whereas lower shells like the repubs 431s or GKs 420s do, Can you explain that to me?

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1 hour ago, HMS_Argosax said:

 

Whats the difference between using AP shells on the Republique and the Conqueror apart from reload buff on the Republique? The Conqueror ones do more damage ?

As was said before, Conqueror has short fuze, but also, Conqueror has slower shells, while Republique has insane penetration on its high velocity shells (at certain ranges surpassing Yamato). Against cruisers, at all ranges Republique is likely more scary, due to the faster RoF, but in alpha strike, Conqueror is better up close, while Republique is better at range (of which it has more too), as it needs less time for shells to travel to the target and at range, the penetration is no longer overpenning. Though, that is not to say Republique isn't scary to cruisers up close, because you can't really bet on that overpen in most of them. Also, Republique is a bit more accurate.

 

3 minutes ago, HMS_Argosax said:

 

I still dont understand why the 457s dont do alot of damage to BBs, whereas lower shells like the repubs 431s or GKs 420s do, Can you explain that to me?

Per shell, a 457 mm Conqueror shell does respectable damage, with the highest damage AP shell in the game (14.9k vs Yamato's 14.8k) But it only gets 8 guns. Kurfürst gets 12, Montana gets 12, Republique gets faster reload, Yamato gets overmatch, so Conqueror against most lacks the shell output and the only comparable ship in number of shells fired will wreck Conqueror in an AP contest hard, as Conqueror has 32 mm plating all over, while Yamato will just bowtank it all. Given T10 BB are either hard to citadel or painfully easy to, the short fuze won't deny you a lot of those.

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1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

As was said before, Conqueror has short fuze, but also, Conqueror has slower shells, while Republique has insane penetration on its high velocity shells (at certain ranges surpassing Yamato). Against cruisers, at all ranges Republique is likely more scary, due to the faster RoF, but in alpha strike, Conqueror is better up close, while Republique is better at range (of which it has more too), as it needs less time for shells to travel to the target and at range, the penetration is no longer overpenning. Though, that is not to say Republique isn't scary to cruisers up close, because you can't really bet on that overpen in most of them. Also, Republique is a bit more accurate.

 

Per shell, a 457 mm Conqueror shell does respectable damage, with the highest damage AP shell in the game (14.9k vs Yamato's 14.8k) But it only gets 8 guns. Kurfürst gets 12, Montana gets 12, Republique gets faster reload, Yamato gets overmatch, so Conqueror against most lacks the shell output and the only comparable ship in number of shells fired will wreck Conqueror in an AP contest hard, as Conqueror has 32 mm plating all over, while Yamato will just bowtank it all. Given T10 BB are either hard to citadel or painfully easy to, the short fuze won't deny you a lot of those.

 

Now I get it thanks :)

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On 12.09.2018 at 1:51 PM, HMS_Argosax said:

Hi all I know that the Conqueror BB has a formidable reputation as a fire starter, but I have failed to miss those 457mm Cannons it can mount. The curious one in me wants to know what the AP shells are like on these beasts?

 

Do they pack a punch? How do they differ from Yamato shells?

Oh boy, you free-xp-ed to the Conqueror too?  WHY WHY WHY WHYYYyyyy:fish_panic:

knock-knock-interrupting-doctor.jpg

 

Tell me it is not because I posted some Conq ranked plays in your thread :cap_cool:

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4 hours ago, EdiJo said:

Oh boy, you free-xp-ed to the Conqueror too?  WHY WHY WHY WHYYYyyyy:fish_panic:

knock-knock-interrupting-doctor.jpg

 

Tell me it is not because I posted some Conq ranked plays in your thread :cap_cool:

No I had 600000 xp on my KGV so I used that to free up the rest of the tech line. I didnt like the monarch or the lion so I skipped those :P

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1 hour ago, HMS_Argosax said:

No I had 600000 xp on my KGV so I used that to free up the rest of the tech line. I didnt like the monarch or the lion so I skipped those :P

And, hafin any fun? :cap_popcorn:

Why do you keep paying to get the highest tiers in line you don't understand? Why didn't you stay at the tier where you can easier learn what RN BB are and how to play them? For example Orion is (still) a very powerful ship; I am not any unicum but sometimes go to nicely club in her doing in T4 2.5x more dmg than average in your 100 KGV games and still much more than your, hm, T10. Playstyle is similar, learning is much easier. Less things at a time.  Faster than jumping straight into T10

Do you like losing? Enjoy being a dead weight for your team? Ruining their games? 1000 bad plays = more than 10000 people who had games ruined by you. A small town. 

 

giphy.gif

Whyyyyy :fish_panic: 

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Thank you for drawing (for me, renewed) attention to the differences between Conqueror's two gun variants. 

Just for fun, I will try and alternate them from battle to battle a couple of times, to see which kinds of differences this can lead to. 

 

Tbh this choice option had kind of blurred out of my line of thought, now that she has been in my fleet for several months. You kind of get used to a specific setup, and then (at least in my case) don't question it, especially if the results are positive. Contrary to e.g. the Mogami's two different gun options. That stuck like glue, in my memory :Smile_smile:

 

The chance of fire being 63% on the 457mm's, with HE, probably prompts most new Conqueror players to use these (compared to 48% with HE on the 419mm's). 

And the fact that the 419's are referred to as "stock" (compared to e.g. World of Warships Wikipedia, which shows trhe 457's as being "top" configuration)...

... which does of course in no way mean that you cannot achieve good results with the smaller guns! 

 

In fact, when you look at the DPM (according to wows-numbers.com), the AP shells on the twelve 419's can do 312,000. 

Yet with the eight 457's, your DPM with AP is down to 238,400! 

And the rate of fire remains the same: 2 rounds per minute. 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Midway67 said:

Thank you for drawing (for me, renewed) attention to the differences between Conqueror's two gun variants. 

Just for fun, I will try and alternate them from battle to battle a couple of times, to see which kinds of differences this can lead to. 

 

Tbh this choice option had kind of blurred out of my line of thought, now that she has been in my fleet for several months. You kind of get used to a specific setup, and then (at least in my case) don't question it, especially if the results are positive. Contrary to e.g. the Mogami's two different gun options. That stuck like glue, in my memory :Smile_smile:

 

The chance of fire being 63% on the 457mm's, with HE, probably prompts most new Conqueror players to use these (compared to 48% with HE on the 419mm's). 

And the fact that the 419's are referred to as "stock" (compared to e.g. World of Warships Wikipedia, which shows trhe 457's as being "top" configuration)...

... which does of course in no way mean that you cannot achieve good results with the smaller guns! 

 

In fact, when you look at the DPM (according to wows-numbers.com), the AP shells on the twelve 419's can do 312,000. 

Yet with the eight 457's, your DPM with AP is down to 238,400! 

And the rate of fire remains the same: 2 rounds per minute. 

 

 

There is a reason people go with the 419s most of the time. The 457s are just not very great. Their one and only selling point is that cruisers typically cannot angle against them and you basically are a stealthier (and less armoured) Yamato to them. But even for an aggressive anti-cruiser playstyle, it likely is better to use the 419s, try to catch broadsides with your concealment and worst case, use HE, which has not as much damage potential, but still works, if you know how to not get rushed down by the cruiser. That last part mostly comes from the observation I made in Ranked this season, that when I face Conquerors in my Hindenburg, they typically never bother with AP, they just load HE, chunk me for a bit, hardly enough to kill me before I would get torps off, because they just straightline broadside on. Only reason they don't get torprushed then is because Hindenburg aP shreds their thin-skinned upper belt for like 17k+ per salvo and before they can get a third salvo off, they are typically dead.But if they would angle away, they'd be far sturdier and would survive the encounter easily.

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4 hours ago, HMS_Argosax said:

i average 20k xp a match, so I can freexp every tech-line "npnp":

3z0qchj.jpg

No, you pay. You can't get a Conqueror with XP earned on KGV. Free XP is something completely different from normal/elite XP. Also millions of free XP from ~1k abysmal games? Nope. Unless you are full of free XP signals, which ... you pay for.

 

And why do you keep being fascinated by single lucky games, where you happily (and very rarely) roll similar potatoes to club? 

Here you have your random games from last 21 days (still small sample, your overall results are much worse):

argosax_random21_20180914.thumb.png.4ef2cbba2c77e362d2a90001c5b1124e.png

 

Wasn't it more fun when you played the Giuseppe? Here in 4 games you managed to be close to the average. This is the tier you should be learning first. :fish_book:

 

And here are your ranked ruined games from last 21 days, which you were so proud of:

argosax_ranked21_20180914.thumb.png.fea473c38376840ca0f80374c9195d9f.png

 

You do 2-3x less damage than average Steve (!) (and playing BB is mostly about doing damage) - this is reflected in your win rate which is abysmal. And this was RANKED, where teams are small and often you are the only BB in your team. And you died your way up to rank 10 already...

From the start your team had to play as 6 (well, 6.3) vs 7, I am sure they loved you for that. Was it fun? :fish_palm:

 

I can understand urge to get those tasty rewards which WG somehow preserves only for Tier X - but 1) you are paying WG much more than those rewards are worth 2) you ruin your games and, what's more important, other people's games. Stop doing this, please. 

 

Please observe your "PR", for example, and if you can't systematically get over 1000, don't try the next harder ship in the line. PLEASE!!!

 

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7 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

And here are your ranked ruined games from last 21 days, which you were so proud of:

argosax_ranked21_20180914.thumb.png.fea473c38376840ca0f80374c9195d9f.png

 

You do 2-3x less damage than average Steve (!) (and playing BB is mostly about doing damage) - this is reflected in your win rate which is abysmal. And this was RANKED, where teams are small and often you are the only BB in your team. And you died your way up to rank 10 already...

From the start your team had to play as 6 (well, 6.3) vs 7, I am sure they loved you for that. Was it fun? :fish_palm:

I don't have 2-3x the damage in my Yamato on average (87k atm), but pretty ok results. I think if you know what to shoot, it matters too.

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13 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

I don't have 2-3x the damage in my Yamato on average (87k atm), but pretty ok results. I think if you know what to shoot, it matters too.

Right. In ranked generally BB have lower damage (partly because of smaller teams and shorter games), I forgot because I mainly played the Conqueror ;) - still, after 150 ranked games in those 2 ships he learned a bit how to shoot still doesn't know what to shoot and generally what to do, and is often causing his team to lose. In full random games (top 10 tier) he has similar results. 

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