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Freyr_90

How to Udaloi?

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So.. not a particularly proud moment for me, but I just free xp'd most of the Udaloi grind to Grozovoi. 

Did I act out of rage/impulse? Oh yes

Could I have saved the free xp? Definitely 

Am I really sorry? Not sure.. 

 

The thing is, it just feels© like an awkward boat to me. 

 

Compared to ships from its own line:

  • Ognevoi had at least passable torpedoes. Sure, they were slow, but 10km at tier 8 is actually good. Guns were a bit meh, but I found that most DDs avoid picking a fight with you (unless they know what they're doing) and they were sufficient for starting fires on BBs
  • Grozovoi also gets 10km torps. And a heal. And speedboost. And more HP. And dakka. 

 

Compared to other T9 DDs I played 

  • Fletcher feels© more versatile with good smoke, great torps and totally adequate DPM
  • Z46 has hydro going for it 
  • Chung Mu has the ultra stealthy torps

 

You're left with a DD that isn't really a cap contester (lol 7.2km detection), can get outgunned by the dedicated gunboats and is not a particularly good torpedo boat either (8km)

 

Just feel the need to mention - this is just my personal opinion, based on a low number of battles. I am not crying for buffs/nerfs. In fact, I kept the Udaloi in the hopes of getting gud. :Smile_Default:

Any advice, suggestions, tips and tricks are more than welcome

 

Cheers!

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She is primarily a Gunboat, that can torpedoboat during the lategame.

 

I try to look for a spotter and stick to him. Without a spotter, she has a hard time as this gets her too close to the enemies in the early game.

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22 minutes ago, Freyr_90 said:

So.. not a particularly proud moment for me, but I just free xp'd most of the Udaloi grind to Grozovoi. 

It's not just you: I did almost the same thing, only I skipped the T9 entirely!

My (not very) good excuse was that I needed a T10 for CW, and I rather enjoyed the pre-buff Groz as a rental a season or so ago; as you say, the T9 looks thoroughly uninspiring...

 

I'll probably force myself to go back and try the thing at some point, but not until I've run out of other more promising things to play (currently Feltcher, for example).

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Udaloi is all out gunboat, which unlike Tashkent, can actually turn, though isn't as fast. And can pick DFAA for occasional CV trolling. And can dump 15 fishes into water, something many people forget about.

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TBH When i grinded her she had a lot less opponents (When the line came out....) but i just used her as a pure bunboat.

 

Garrus's How To Udaloi That He Made Up In One Minute:

 

Step 1 Go to the one cap on the side of the map (NEVER GO MIDDLE) that your team doesnt go to (the udaloi, because of its gun range and excellent manoeuvrability  can be one of the best kiters in the game).

Step 2 Youre the faster DD so you probably reach the cap first, make sure you can get out quickly once spotted, wait until the enemy approaches and delay them with dakka dakka as best as you can.

Step 3 Once optimal position has been reached (kiting with the enemies at 13 km away) spread the fires. Make them use as many DCP as you can.

Step 4 Lure them. That means, get unspotted, move a little closer, shoot, go to max range, go unspotted again once fires have been set. Rinse and repeat.

Step 5 Late game you can try to contest caps because you're fast but its not your primary role.

 

Basic rules of thumb:

- Kiting is love, kiting is life.

- You're not outspotting any DD, so dont take the fight to them but let them take the fight to you.

- RPF is a must since you dont want to get suprised by an enemy DD that smokes up next to you.

- Torps are like BB secondaries: Can be useful in some situations but mostly unused. You have dakka dakka for compensation.

- Edge of the map is where you belong

- Be a nuisance to the enemy team.

- Always think of the route youre going to take the next 2-3 minutes so you dont get cornered in.

- The Udaloi is (along with the Khab and perhaps more of the RU DD line) the one DD where it is imperative that you plan what you are going to do in the next few minutes.
 

CYKA BLYAT

за родину!/ za rodinu! - For the motherland!

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The Udaloi is a strange one. The Ognevoi is a meh Torpboat, but it's captain build needs CE to work. The Udaloi on the other hand benefits from the standard RU DD captain build (Aft, BFT etc). Personally I'm waiting until my Leningrad captain (who used to be my Ognevoi captain) reaches 19pts before tackling the Udaloi before moving him onto the Grozovoi. My basic plan is to play it similar to the usual Gunboat style but with added ambush torps. 

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1 hour ago, Freyr_90 said:

(...)I just free xp'd most of the Udaloi grind to Grozovoi. 

So, I saw the thread title, came to give advice - but right in the first sentence it seems that you've found the best answer on your own - I'm confused :Smile_trollface:

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ColonelPete already wrote the main points.

 

  • You're concealment is horrible. If at all possible team up with other, stealthier, DD.
  • Udaloi is bad at contesting caps, you simply get out spotted and confine yourself into limited space (but your speed allows you to attempt an fast, uncontested capping, just dont hang around)
  • You're superb harasser of BB's, draw fire from your allies and make the hostiles waste their shots against you. Nothing is more gratifying than enemy wasting 5 full volleys against you and exposing their broadside to your team as they try to swat you. 
  • Udaloi's main strengths lie in it's ability to dodge and weave around while laying down a withering barrage.
  • This is helped by Udaloi's 610m turning circle, 40.0 knots base speed and acceptable rudder shift of 4.3s
  • Personally, I found the speed good enough, and picked Def AA. useful vs Spotters and carriers
  • Soviet 130mm's are made for this work, light a double fire on BB, switch target and come back in 30s, or hammer a moving DD from near max range.
  • Although only having 8km torps, Udaloi can flood an small are with 15 torps, first volley of 10, followed by 5 from a different angle ( it's this 3rd launcher, fired slightly after the first two and coming from another direction due to your turning that tends to catch/finish off smoke campers that survived/managed to avoid the first volley)
  • Don't sit in smokes, they're your ''oh shait, I need to get out of here tool''
  • KEEP MOVING

 

 

Due to her low torpedo range and horrid concealment, instead of even trying to turn her into a poor torpedo boat I went full gunboat/harasser build, deciding to emphasize her strengths of long range gunnery, HP and AA. 

(a polished turd is still a turd)

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.7dc45da0c938aea18dea488510438403.png

 

186 Battles

60% wr

55.5k average damage (preferred target: DD's that got spotted)

 


 

 

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Sort of disagree with the "only a gunboat" thing. Its more of a hybrid style imho - the torps are really dangerous (plus you get to lay down 9* at a time with a bit of steering) and you are mobile enough to be able to get position to use them. The guns are decent and can bully a lot of targets of course, but its more of a jack of all trades than some think. Really enjoyed the grind through it, and now must work on my Groz play ;)

 

Edit: Counting is hard

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2 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Torps are like BB secondaries: Can be useful in some situations but mostly unused. You have dakka dakka for compensation.

Yep. Although my favourite in the Tashkent was launching them at an advancing BB from just outside of detection range and then hitting speed boost and opening fire to see if I could bait them into the path of the torps. (Totally situational I know, but funny as hell when it works)

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Just now, Captain_KriegWurst said:

The Udaloi is a strange one. The Ognevoi is a meh Torpboat, but it's captain build needs CE to work. The Udaloi on the other hand benefits from the standard RU DD captain build (Aft, BFT etc). Personally I'm waiting until my Leningrad captain (who used to be my Ognevoi captain) reaches 19pts before tackling the Udaloi before moving him onto the Grozovoi. My basic plan is to play it similar to the usual Gunboat style but with added ambush torps. 

Udaloi works just fine without CE and with AFT as all out gunboat, even with maxed camo she can't really contest caps. Groz on other hand, gets very serviceable concealment when maxed out and needs AFT if you intend to stay true to the DD Way of the Stalin (as well 7.5km AA range). Lots of consumables with limited charges heavily imply Supernintendo, so you have to skip SE or BFT (when keeping CE and AFT).

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6 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Groz on other hand, gets very serviceable concealment when maxed out and needs AFT if you intend to stay true to the DD Way of the Stalin (as well 7.5km AA range).

Yeah, that's pretty much the way I set up my Leningrad. CE and AFT without BFT. I figure he'll work fine in the Groz and be serviceable if not perfect in the Udaloi. 

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3 minutes ago, Captain_KriegWurst said:

Yeah, that's pretty much the way I set up my Leningrad. CE and AFT without BFT. I figure he'll work fine in the Groz and be serviceable if not perfect in the Udaloi. 

On other hand, Groz as "gunboat hybrid" kinda needs all the dakka bonuses she can get that for 3.2s reload to almost compete with Gearing/Yueyang, even more so as +20% AA dps when combined with DFAA actually enables her to knock planes down.

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1 hour ago, Freyr_90 said:

You're left with a DD that isn't really a cap contester (lol 7.2km detection), can get outgunned by the dedicated gunboats and is not a particularly good torpedo boat either (8km)

 

if you get outgunned by anything that isnt a Grozo/Khaba (or maybe Tashkent because of the heal) in your Udalol, then you're doing something horribly wrong... i.e. you're fighting them on their terms, in a close in knife fight, and not on yours, kiting and using your vastly superior ballistics to shred them.

Udaloi isn't a traditional DD - so stop trying to use it as such. Play the poor ship to its strengths, like you should with any other...

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It's been a while, but from what I can remember it's a mini khaba with better range and okish torps. I recall having an absolute blast in it, but had to sell it for the credits when purchasing the Khaba. I don't recall ever being out-dpsed by a Fletcher though, in fact I'm sure it had a good go at Gearings back then. 

 

I'm looking at re-grinding through it for the Grozovoi so actually quite looking forward to it.

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2 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

....

Step 1 Go to the one cap on the side of the map (NEVER GO MIDDLE) that your team doesnt go to (the udaloi, because of its gun range and excellent manoeuvrability  can be one of the best kiters in the game).

....

There are some reasons why you should not do that:

  • you get outspotted by enemy DD that go to that cap
  • when perma spotted you get too much fire
  • since you are the only friendly ship there, you get ALL the fire of ALL enemy ships there, that is not something Udaloi can deal with
  • you do not really slow down the enemy capping, unless you go back into the cap to block or spot enemy DD, which gets you sunk....
  • your team does not get your fire support at the other caps, you basicly ignore team play
  • the damage you do is pointless, unless you manage to do damage to ships that cannot heal (at Tier IX many ships can heal), but even then it is very likely you spread out the damage over multiple ships

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23 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

There are some reasons why you should not do that:

  • you get outspotted by enemy DD that go to that cap
  • when perma spotted you get too much fire
  • since you are the only friendly ship there, you get ALL the fire of ALL enemy ships there, that is not something Udaloi can deal with
  • you do not really slow down the enemy capping, unless you go back into the cap to block or spot enemy DD, which gets you sunk....
  • your team does not get your fire support at the other caps, you basicly ignore team play
  • the damage you do is pointless, unless you manage to do damage to ships that cannot heal (at Tier IX many ships can heal), but even then it is very likely you spread out the damage over multiple ships

Sorry, I had to elaborate. I didnt mean rush into the caps, what i meant was: Lurk around that cap and spot enemy BBs and cruisers with a large detection range. Ofcourse youre not going to contest it, that would be suicide.

Let them cap it for all you care. What you care about in the Udaloi is farming as much damage on those capital ships so your team can take them down once they reach the other part of the map. That is the goal.

And sure they can heal back but if you weaken the BBs for a large part they will not push as much and pose less of a threat.

 

Not saying this works 10/10 but i got pretty good results playing like this.

udaloi.png.2035e26b816faa423e81b1369a3c5ee5.png

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2 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

Udaloi isn't a traditional DD - so stop trying to use it as such. Play the poor ship to its strengths, like you should with any other...

 

8 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Sorry, I had to elaborate. I didnt mean rush into the caps, what i meant was: Lurk around that cap and spot enemy BBs and cruisers with a large detection range. Ofcourse youre not going to contest it, that would be suicide.

Having the time to chill I think this was my problem overall. I legit tried capping early, even though I knew at the back of my head that it wouldn't work all that well. Guess I'll need to adapt and leave the initial capping to the stealthy boats and hope I don't get one of those "flanking" Shimas/Kageros. Also, I should probably prepare mentally for the "omg noob DD y u no cap" :Smile_teethhappy:

 

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37 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Sorry, I had to elaborate. I didnt mean rush into the caps, what i meant was: Lurk around that cap and spot enemy BBs and cruisers with a large detection range. Ofcourse youre not going to contest it, that would be suicide.

Let them cap it for all you care. What you care about in the Udaloi is farming as much damage on those capital ships so your team can take them down once they reach the other part of the map. That is the goal.

And sure they can heal back but if you weaken the BBs for a large part they will not push as much and pose less of a threat.

 

Not saying this works 10/10 but i got pretty good results playing like this.

udaloi.png.2035e26b816faa423e81b1369a3c5ee5.png

It is still not a good tactic. Your team would profit more if you focussed your damage and helped the team to bring down enemy ships more quickly.

There is a reason that focus fire is one of the core tactics of good teams.

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8 minutes ago, Freyr_90 said:

 

Having the time to chill I think this was my problem overall. I legit tried capping early, even though I knew at the back of my head that it wouldn't work all that well. Guess I'll need to adapt and leave the initial capping to the stealthy boats and hope I don't get one of those "flanking" Shimas/Kageros. Also, I should probably prepare mentally for the "omg noob DD y u no cap" :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Yeah playing RU DD's can really ruin your karma since all the image.png.a728123a677bfe6bc28c07b51c869266.pngdon't know how they work.

Sometimes I let myself get pursuaded by multiple "Friendlies" to contest an early cap which often led to my early demise. So these days I always stick to my own gameplan.

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8 minutes ago, Freyr_90 said:

 

Having the time to chill I think this was my problem overall. I legit tried capping early, even though I knew at the back of my head that it wouldn't work all that well. Guess I'll need to adapt and leave the initial capping to the stealthy boats and hope I don't get one of those "flanking" Shimas/Kageros. Also, I should probably prepare mentally for the "omg noob DD y u no cap" :Smile_teethhappy:

 

by all means leave the capping to them, but you're really really good at supporting them - stay just the right distance behind an allied DD that he'll get spotted (and thus also spot the enemy DDs) a few hundred meters before you would get spotted yourself (2-3km behind is a decent benchmark, varying with your build and the DD you're following ofc), and proceed to murderize the opposing DD while probably not taking all that much return fire (since the enemies will have someone else to shoot at first :Smile_glasses:).

Oh, and yes you're correct - getting one of those "flanking" DDs in your team, or only other RU gunboat DDs for that matter, can be annoying :Smile_teethhappy:

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3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

It is still not a good tactic. Your team would profit more if you focussed your damage and helped the team to bring down enemy ships more quickly.

There is a reason that focus fire is one of the core tactics of good teams.

And yet it works for me. :Smile-_tongue:

Keeping multiple ships busy means my team can focus fire at a numerical advantage on the other side.

But everyone has got their own style I guess.

@Freyr_90 Asked our opinion on how to play and there isnt one Ub3r1337-built or -tactic that works 10/10.

Yes, mine is quite egoistic because you go for your own damage. Do I care? Not really.

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We are not discussing what works for you, but what is a good tactic.

 

Some people have great success with sniping with their BB from 18+ km. That still does not make it a good tactic.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

We are not discussing what works for you, but what is a good tactic.

 

Some people have great success with sniping with their BB from 18+ km. That still does not make it a good tactic.

When you find a sniping BB with a 70% winrate, please tell me.

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