How to angle musashi/yama vs other yama?

[thiextar]

So quick question: I know i cant go nose in, cause then he will overmatch my armor and frontal cit me, nor can i angle too much, or he will citadel my cheeks. So what is the optimal way to angle a yama vs another yama? If someone could draw a quick pic or just straight up tell me an angle in degrees or something, that would be awesome, cause im currently struggling with doing this consistently well.

 

Cheers

[Tyrendian89]

best way for you would probably be to take your Yamato/Musashi and go into a training room against stationary bot Yamatos - that way you can see in practice how things work out from all the angles and distances you can dream of, which is going to stick with you a lot more than a few words or a crude drawing you get on here. Not only helps you find out what angle is the hardest to deal with, but at the same time teaches you where to shoot him back for best results

[Flavio1997]

from what i have seen is somewhere in the 15-20° region, but we should try in a training room

 

[HaachamaShipping]

Typically, somewhat nose in still. Yes, you get overmatched. But you typically don't get bow-citadelled (octagonal hull shape reduces the flat frontal surface of the citadel). You cannot bait on the belt, else you get citadelled through the cheek. Pretty much a case of suck it up that you eat a potential 10k per salvo and hope the bow gets saturated soon. Same as what are you going to do vs Conqueror?

[thiextar]

Just now, Riselotte said:

Typically, somewhat nose in still. Yes, you get overmatched. But you typically don't get bow-citadelled (octagonal hull shape reduces the flat frontal surface of the citadel). You cannot bait on the belt, else you get citadelled through the cheek. Pretty much a case of suck it up that you eat a potential 10k per salvo and hope the bow gets saturated soon. Same as what are you going to do vs Conqueror?

Well, vs conq, theres only really two choices, go nose in to give him a smaller target, or try to get all three turrets firing and hope he doesnt load ap.

 

Anyhow, i guess ill try out a few training battles vs yamas and try to figure out if nose in or a slight angle is best from there.

 

Cheers

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, thiextar said:

Well, vs conq, theres only really two choices, go nose in to give him a smaller target, or try to get all three turrets firing and hope he doesnt load ap.

 

Anyhow, i guess ill try out a few training battles vs yamas and try to figure out if nose in or a slight angle is best from there.

 

Cheers

Yeah, so you eat your 10k per salvo and think about ways to get a decent trade or you reflect on why you ended up in this crappy situation.

[Lord_WC]

3 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Well, vs conq, theres only really two choices, go nose in to give him a smaller target, or try to get all three turrets firing and hope he doesnt load ap.

 

Anyhow, i guess ill try out a few training battles vs yamas and try to figure out if nose in or a slight angle is best from there.

 

Cheers

You also can get some range. You will reliably hit from 18-20 km, he won't.

[thiextar]

2 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Yeah, so you eat your 10k per salvo and think about ways to get a decent trade or you reflect on why you ended up in this crappy situation.

Yeah, of course i dont wanna end up like that in the first place, but sometimes you just end up in fights against yamatos, and when that happends, i need to know how to win it. 

 

And vs a conq, pretty much whatever he does, ill do more damage to him than he will do to me in a yama/musashi

[NothingButTheRain]

10 minutes ago, Lord_WC said:

You also can get some range. You will reliably hit from 18-20 km, he won't.

Personally I think this is best. I try to stay at roughly 15km (conceilment value is 13.5 so minimum of 15km) and try to use all my guns.

And, as been mentioned by others, if I need to brawl (which happens pretty often actually), I just need to "suck it up" 

[HaachamaShipping]

30 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Yeah, of course i dont wanna end up like that in the first place, but sometimes you just end up in fights against yamatos, and when that happends, i need to know how to win it. 

 

And vs a conq, pretty much whatever he does, ill do more damage to him than he will do to me in a yama/musashi

Yeah, but usually, if two bowcamping Yamatos face each other, either one of them survives on heavy damage based on RNG, one survives because it started on higher hp or the one who messes up first/harder loses. As it should be.

[aboomination]

Note: Since I didn't find anything regarding ballistics in WoWS (i.e. shell trajectory), the usefulness of this is limited, but it can still help I guess ;)

 

Angles measured with Inkscape's measurement tool...can't do the math right now, but I'd say: When in doubt go bow-in and pray for RNG ('A' is the smallest available surface in this calculation).

Calc I use: https://panzerworld.com/relative-armor-calculator?

 

Yamato pen curve over distance

source: 

 

• 0-30 degrees -> auto ricochet
• 30-45 degrees -> chance to ricochet
• 45-90 degrees -> ricochet doesn't occur

source: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration

 

(A)

(nvm that error @ 47° angle, will not re-draw ^^)

Upper A = 608mm (penned below ~16km), chance to bounce - the shell will arc into the plating from above, tho -> Most effective at very short ranges.

Lower A = 377mm (auto pen) -> could be effective at long ranges, against steep plunging fire (dunno if the game really does that).

 

 

(B)

 

Upper upper B: Auto ricochet at close distances.

Lower upper B: Angle steepens to the outside, will use 48° (worst case): 626mm, penned below 15km

Lower B: 503mm, penned below 24km

 

Conclusion: In reality all of these values are way worse because of shell trajectory. There can be freak bounces at very close (upper citadel) and very long ranges (lower citadel).

If someone can link me a source regarding shell trajectory calculation, I could come up with a definite guide...

 

 

[IanH755]

Someone like Flamu, Aeroon or Flambass has done a video on Yamato vs Yamato regarding bow on tanking and getting the exact angle correct but I can't find it now.

[aboomination]

Updated my post, does anyone have a source regarding shell trajectory calculation in WoWS?

@MrConway

[a_p_u_l_e_i_u_s]

6 hours ago, thiextar said:

So quick question: I know i cant go nose in, cause then he will overmatch my armor and frontal cit me, nor can i angle too much, or he will citadel my cheeks. So what is the optimal way to angle a yama vs another yama? If someone could draw a quick pic or just straight up tell me an angle in degrees or something, that would be awesome, cause im currently struggling with doing this consistently well.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[MrConway]

On 9/10/2018 at 5:32 PM, aboomination said:

Updated my post, does anyone have a source regarding shell trajectory calculation in WoWS?

@MrConway

 

Not on hand, sorry.