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CallmeMessi

Time to scrap saving star in ranked

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Currently decided not to bother with rank battles as too many players are more concerned with saving a star then fight for the team.

 

Tricks are, afk at the start for a minute or two, pretend to be afk during the game, DD's focused on playing away from caps (NOT SPOTTING) for the majority of the game, and when most of their team is dead will then go into the cap to kill and cap. BB's not taking positions to cover their teammates by hiding most of the game. Again when the game is lost will then emerge to kill damaged opponents. I have no problems with non-clan players not used to the maps but they must adapt to a team mentality when engaged in ranked.

 

Capping at the start does not guarantee victory, If a DD is sunk at the start it does not mean the game is lost, harder yes, but at least the rest of the team knows where the enemy is. Clear communication, spotting, shooting accuracy and supporting your teammates earn the victory and star.

 

Hence why it's time to ditch the star for the losing team.

 

Having fun in randoms

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1 hour ago, CallmeMessi said:

 

Tricks are, afk at the start for a minute or two, pretend to be afk during the game, DD's focused on playing away from caps (NOT SPOTTING) for the majority of the game, and when most of their team is dead will then go into the cap to kill and cap. BB's not taking positions to cover their teammates by hiding most of the game. Again when the game is lost will then emerge to kill damaged opponents.

 

Capping at the start does not guarantee victory,

Hence why it's time to ditch the star for the losing team.

 

Having fun in randoms

How the hell do those actions you have described above guarantee a star for the loosing team?

 

capping at the start?....well its easyer to cap and hold than re take enemy cap no?

 

The whole point of Keeping the star for the top player is because the top player has done most of the work for his/her team( that's why he/she is top) and they should loose a star because the rest of said team is a bunch of sunday roast potatoes as you have aptly described above?...

No sir.

 

And I find randoms a lot less of an organised team than ranked unless you division up a lot...

 

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57 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

is because the top player has done most of the work for his/her team

nope not the case.

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1 hour ago, SeaWolf7 said:

How the hell do those actions you have described above guarantee a star for the loosing team?

More damage/kills and caps is how u save a star, fighting in and around the caps earns u nothing.

 

The player will know within 2mins of the battle starting what mode they are going to adopt, star saving or team. Example: If the two DDs ignore A cap on sleeping giant and cap C then spot B because they don't like radars what do u think the likely outcome will be? Or the BBs/cruisers don't take crossfire positions to support a DD caping A through the middle on the same map? Removing the star will get players to work as a team.

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9 minutes ago, CallmeMessi said:

Removing the star will get players to work as a team.

 

No, it most certainly wont make a team of randoms work as a team. Saving star has to stay...

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2 hours ago, SeaWolf7 said:

because the top player has farmed the most damage

 

Fify.

Friendly reminder that cap exp has been nerfed hard and everything else basically gives almost no exp at all.

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11 minutes ago, CrniVrag said:

No, it most certainly wont make a team of randoms work as a team. Saving star has to stay...

How do you know it won't work? You have to communicate to get it to work. In CB you know that one or two teammates might make a sacrifice to help the team win and you all get rewarded even if you score 0xp. In ranked if one player makes a sacrifice and the team loses only one person benefits and that cannot be right.  

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2 hours ago, SeaWolf7 said:

The whole point of Keeping the star for the top player is because the top player has done most of the work for his/her team( that's why he/she is top) and they should loose a star because the rest of said team is a bunch of sunday roast

 

Definetely not. Last ranked match i played i lost because of 2 DDs who desperately were trying to save their star:

- Map Warriors Path, i was Hindi and decided to go towards B. 4 of ours went A so i think thats looks fine, shima and Z went with me towards B.

While going to B, i got spotted because a DD (turns out it was 2 actually) were rushing the middle. I told our DDs, one has to come back and spot them. Nothing. They went BEHIND the Islands (were C cap in domination is) flanked around and the Z capped C, while our team at A got ofc crushed with ease. Z yoloed a BB from behind, didnt kill it, but got several k damage on it ofc and saved his star (1 solo 1 assisted cap), while he was part of the problem losing the match.

 

[X] SAVING STAR HAS TO GO!

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4 minutes ago, CallmeMessi said:

How do you know it won't work? You have to communicate to get it to work. In CB you know that one or two teammates might make a sacrifice to help the team win and you all get rewarded even if you score 0xp. In ranked if one player makes a sacrifice and the team loses only one person benefits and that cannot be right.  

The star was put in place after the first few rounds of ranked when it became clear that team play was often not a thing 

In games where its obvious after a couple of mins that you have been teamed with a group from the shallow end of the gene pool there was no point in continuing 

Having the save a star mechanism gives decent players something to go for in those battles 

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5 minutes ago, CallmeMessi said:

How do you know it won't work? You have to communicate to get it to work. In CB you know that one or two teammates might make a sacrifice to help the team win and you all get rewarded even if you score 0xp. In ranked if one player makes a sacrifice and the team loses only one person benefits and that cannot be right.  

Then don't make a sacrafice where it's so insignificant that the enemy still can win. Your arguments aren't even close to being water tight. 3/10

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19 hours ago, Synth_FG said:

Having the save a star mechanism gives decent players something to go for in those battles

Thank you! Decent players who cannot communicate or are struggling to get other players to listen to how best to play a map. Then u restrict ranked to clan players who actually played in clan battles, not those who are part of the clan. Or lose the star. Ranked is just not about decent players or is it?

 

19 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Definetely not. Last ranked match i played i lost because of 2 DDs who desperately were trying to save their star:

- Map Warriors Path, i was Hindi and decided to go towards B. 4 of ours went A so i think thats looks fine, shima and Z went with me towards B.

While going to B, i got spotted because a DD (turns out it was 2 actually) were rushing the middle. I told our DDs, one has to come back and spot them. Nothing. They went BEHIND the Islands (were C cap in domination is) flanked around and the Z capped C, while our team at A got ofc crushed with ease. Z yoloed a BB from behind, didnt kill it, but got several k damage on it ofc and saved his star (1 solo 1 assisted cap), while he was part of the problem losing the match.

 

[X] SAVING STAR HAS TO GO!

 

 

I feel your pain...lets hope you get rewarded in your next battle

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2 hours ago, CrniVrag said:

Then don't make a sacrafice where it's so insignificant that the enemy still can win. Your arguments aren't even close to being water tight. 3/10

The problem isn't one player saving the star. The problem is 7 players vying to save that star instead of winning. Say, you have 1 cap, enemy has 2 you have to push those 2 ships against your 4. What happens currently? People sit around, wait for someone else to take the risk then they just lose.

In short, bad people are bad but even worse if they try to play clever.

 

But then again, I use ranked just to farm legendaries, so I don't break a sweat about winning either.

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If the keeping the star were to be removed, they'd have to drastically reduce the number of wins required to climb up the ranks to avoid it being even more grindy than it already is.

 

In lower ranked matched it's easy to get top XP whilst focusing entirely on trying to win the battle. Simply because so many players in Ranks 20 to 11 haven't mastered the basics of hitting the enemy, ammo choice and how to stay alive. Maybe they could try removing the star keeping mechanic for Ranks 10 to 1 or 5 to 1 only? Where the sort of selfish play described by the OP may be more endemic?

 

Or maybe the OP doesn't understand that sometimes the best way to give your team the best chance of winning is to play in a way that lesser skilled team-mates would view as "selfish"?

I know there have been plenty of times when I have been criticised in chat for a playing a certain way (by dead players) and I've thought to myself "He clearly has no idea what I'm trying to do and why because he hasn't got a clue about how to carry in this game."

 

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The thing is, ranked is won by making less mistakes than the enemy. If you see your team mates being passive, don't push, die and rant later on, play it safe and yes there is a chance you'll lose on points, but usually the enemy makes a mistake and 1 or 2 ships less out of 7 is a huge factor. 

Team play is key, that doesn't mean your way is always right. Adjust to your team, even if they are passive, it gives you far more chances to win than not.

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15 hours ago, Lin3 said:

I've thought to myself

One of the biggest problems in stranger team battles is no/unclear chat. Explain your logic so the rest of the team can support/understand/disagree

 

15 hours ago, CrniVrag said:

The thing is, ranked is won by making less mistakes than the enemy. If you see your team mates being passive, don't push, die and rant later on, play it safe and yes there is a chance you'll lose on points, but usually the enemy makes a mistake and 1 or 2 ships less out of 7 is a huge factor. 

Team play is key, that doesn't mean your way is always right. Adjust to your team, even if they are passive, it gives you far more chances to win than not

 

Again, communication but also, time is a critical factor as you only have a limited amount to do something and waiting for the enemy who has two caps to make mistakes the higher you go in ranked is unlikely. Agree with team play but rewarding one player because they all played passively is wrong. Timing is key and one or two players have to push which brings us back to who should get rewarded the risk takers or the campers. 7 players can't camp and win.

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Agreed. While it might not suddenly stop people playing like they're in a random battle just looking to get most for themselves over their team, at least it won't reward them for it.

 

Just throw in the bonus star on rank up for higher ranks too, to have the same amount of stars in the "economy" of ranked.

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23 hours ago, SeaWolf7 said:

How the hell do those actions you have described above guarantee a star for the loosing team?

 

capping at the start?....well its easyer to cap and hold than re take enemy cap no?

 

The whole point of Keeping the star for the top player is because the top player has done most of the work for his/her team( that's why he/she is top) and they should loose a star because the rest of said team is a bunch of sunday roast potatoes as you have aptly described above?...

No sir.

 

And I find randoms a lot less of an organised team than ranked unless you division up a lot...

 

Some of the most [edited] i read in a long time ! What guarantee that the player on topp have done most off the work ? Is very easy to be on the topp just camping on max range with a BB to secure that star.And when the outcome of the match i clear then you move forward with a full hp pool to farm eaven moor.

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Its looking like getting rid of that star for the top xp earner in the losing team is the only way to improve team play in ranked battles. Nothing in this thread has changed my view. WG/WOWS developers take notice, ranked is toxic and you need to change things.

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7 hours ago, CallmeMessi said:

One of the biggest problems in stranger team battles is no/unclear chat. Explain your logic so the rest of the team can support/understand/disagree

 

I usually don't have time to sail my ship, shoot stuff, dodge stuff, check my surroundings and the mini-map and write a brief essay explaining my actions to someone who has no understanding of what I'm doing and why.

 

I am quite happy to division with players and talk them through on Discord as best I can on what I'm doing and why. Which would mean playing some random battles instead of ranked.

 

But then anyone can watch Flamu's youtube videos and learn more from him than they would from me as he is a better player than me - especially at higher tiers.

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 NoZoup did a video about the problem, showing how the "keep a star" becomes a case of the so-called Prisoner's Dilemma.

IIRC the system was popular at the time. I guess mainly because it's so aggravating to drop in rank when you legitimately did well for your team. I recall feeling the same way -- maybe it was ill-advised.

Might be best to remove it. If you're genuinely playing well, in the long term you'll win at >50%.

 

 

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On 08/09/2018 at 7:17 PM, El2aZeR said:

 

Fify.

Friendly reminder that cap exp has been nerfed hard and everything else basically gives almost no exp at all.

 

^^^^^^

Exactly that.

The scoring system is so massively skewed towards damage that teamplay, taking risks to cap or spotting is worthless, the net result is people camp to farm damage and hope that some other members of the team take the risks to win while they're trying their best to save a star and doing nothing to actively make the win happen.

I had intended to make a real push to rank out this season, but after 20 games or so I just can't face playing Ranked at the moment.

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17 minutes ago, Kenliero said:

More like: Time to lose 2 stars if you are bottom player in your team...

That would lead into no dd players in ranked and more bbs. DDs get faster and easier rekt than bbs.

 

My only idea would be to let someone safe a star, who also got 10% of the base ep of the first player. Also the dubloon reward should be earned at rank 5 and not rank 1. Rank 1 should be only for prestige and not for value

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2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That would lead into no dd players in ranked and more bbs. DDs get faster and easier rekt than bbs.

 

My only idea would be to let someone safe a star, who also got 10% of the base ep of the first player. Also the dubloon reward should be earned at rank 5 and not rank 1. Rank 1 should be only for prestige and not for value

if you get rekt right away as DD, you really deserve to lose stars... Why do you think DD who dies right away should have some kind of special treatment?

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