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Amaterasu_Regale

Battleship Rework

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tl;dr: Battleships gain more and more accuracy the more they repeatedly shoot at a singular target. 

 

The long version:

 

Battleships (especially higher tier ones) are far too accurate on their first shots, which allows BBs to snap shots off against Cruisers that can deal stupid amounts of damage and then quickly switch to firing at another target. As the rock paper scissors system has clearly failed, maybe Battleships need to be re-balanced around fighting other Battleships. The suggestion being that a first shot that a Battleship makes against a target will be subject to much lower accuracy and higher dispersion. On their second shot, they will have lower dispersion, and this process repeats. This represents a gunnery crew getting more information and being able to accurately pinpoint the course and speed of a ship. 

 

 Isn't this a straight BB nerf? Yes and no. The main objective is to stop Cruisers exploding instantly the second they wander into a Battleship's range. However, with a system like this in place, more things about Battleships can be buffed without creating an unstoppable monster. This also opens up design space for Battleships. Does this make BBs prey for firespam Cruisers? Yes, which is an issue that needs to be resolved. Cruisers still need to be able to damage BBs but shouldn't be able to rip them down with fires so easily. Likewise, BBs need not to be able to sneeze in the direction of a Cruiser to instantly kill them.

 

 

 

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Would be far easier to calculate damage based on the target, not on the shell :fish_book:

This would also easily fix the BB AP on DD scenario (heck, you might give DDs citadels again in that case), because a big caliber shell hitting a DD might just cause minimal damage by overpening or penetrating the DD, if the damage is calculated on the DD. Same shell would deal more damage hitting a Cruiser/BB/CV.

 

Then all classes could be balanced well against each other.

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[SKRUB]
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So why cruiser need to be nerfed, if we want to nerf BB ? =o

Because fire spam can easily be counter by repear consumable and survavibility built.

 

Also some BB have better concealment than cruiser and a "no citadel".

I mean decrease accuracy for the first shoot, will not work because it will be still random rng  and BB don't really want to play the tanker role. 

 

But hey turning BB into a potato prof, how can we screw up more ? :=

 

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Nah...if someone broasides me like a potato, I want to hit him so hard that his [edited]still hurts on the next map.

Cruisers are not weak.

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1 minute ago, Mandalorianer said:

I'm for a top down view and similar playstyle like Arty in WoT.

 

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[-AP-]
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Way too arbitrary and complicated system that would never work as a game mechanic. All bbs need is to all have exposed citadels, and always overpen dds

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Cruisers that do get blapped by BBs have either been outplayed by the enemy team (being spotted by the enemy while denied vision of enemy BBs) or have made some mistakes of their own to find themselves full broadside in the sights of an enemy BB, I'm pretty sure that risk and potential for destruction is the con that counters the advantages cruisers have over BBs like their lower detectability, increased maneuverability and more flexible armament.

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[YARRR]
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How about we just remove BBs from the game?

Think about it:

- cruisers become more numerous = far more AA cover against CVs

- DDs will be tuned to counter cruisers instead, hydro & radar removed and DFAA forced on all cruisers

- CVs already counter DDs so no changes there

 

Perfect synergy potential and perfect RPS system.

BBs were the problem all along.

 

Spoiler

:Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface:

 

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I believe my Iowa was a testbed for this "rework". :Smile_sceptic:

 

What OP has failed to realise is that devastating AP salvos on cruisers at high tiers don't come from random shots from a new player. When you are devastated by a BB remember that you did not see the amount of salvos he fired that ended in multiple overpenetrations. Only brain-dead HE BBs can disregard any skill or aim requirements because that is the type of play that WG wanted to motivate in RN BBs. All others normally need to plan shots because of the long reloads, calculate possible trajectories in the long amount of time the AP shells take to reach to aimed point, accurately predict the ship position at point of impact, understand if the salvo is likely to hit a citadel or just bounce or overpenetrate SSs, and that is while being under continuous HE spam that destroys all AA defenses, disregards angling and lets you be an easy kill for carriers.

 

I am mostly a DD/CA main, FYI.

 

BBs SHOULD be able to devastate cruisers, Cruisers SHOULD be able to devastate DDs, DDs SHOULD be able to devastate BBs. BBs should NOT be able to devastate DDs, Cruisers should NOT be able to devastate BBs (cough cough Stalingrad), and DDs should NOT be able to devastate Cruisers.

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11 minutes ago, Benser said:

Cruisers that do get blapped by BBs have either been outplayed by the enemy team (being spotted by the enemy while denied vision of enemy BBs) or have made some mistakes of their own to find themselves full broadside in the sights of an enemy BB

Emm how about - no? You can be blapped by focused fire even when perfectly angeled and kiting and in some instances even by a single bb that overmatches your bow armour and citdevstrikes you, besides with some cruisers to fulfill your role you must be in front to support your dd, often happens that your dd dies to a random torp or salvo and you end up beeing spotted by an enemy dd (against whitch often you cant do squat) not to mention that you sometimes have to sail blindly into situation and can run into a lemmingtrain and on many maps there is no escape from that, your only other option is camping and beeing usless for your team half the time

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30 minutes ago, Benser said:

counters the advantages cruisers have over BBs like their lower detectability,

 

 

 

This isnt even a thing anymore, cruisers with better concealment than BBs pfff....

Even in some cases they are so close together, that the minimal advantage of the Cruiser can be dismissed if you go for a 1v1 where you would want to avoid a conflict, since there would be no way to turn in time.

And some BBs have just plain better concealment than Cruisers...

 

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35 minutes ago, Benser said:

counters the advantages cruisers have over BBs like their lower detectability

 

You must have missed the last 2 years. Welcome back to World or Warships!

 

 

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21 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

This isnt even a thing anymore, cruisers with better concealment than BBs pfff....

Even in some cases they are so close together, that the minimal advantage of the Cruiser can be dismissed if you go for a 1v1 where you would want to avoid a conflict, since there would be no way to turn in time.

And some BBs have just plain better concealment than Cruisers...

 

Did I say all cruisers have better concealment than all BBs? I'm pretty sure legendary HIV has same detectability as stock Kurfurst.

 

I'm obviously talking about taking advantage of concealment in cruisers like Zao, Mino, Worcester etc. If you put your Mino in clear view of a BB within 9km you're gonna get deleted, the detectability is there to be used if you need it

 

17 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

You must have missed the last 2 years. Welcome back to World or Warships!

 

 

Have you never considered not firing and using your concealment when you're in danger? 

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Just now, Benser said:

Have you never considered not firing and using your concealment when you're in danger? 

 

Have you ever concidered looking up facts before asking other people questions that make no sense?

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Just now, Benser said:

Did I say all cruisers have better concealment than all BBs? I'm pretty sure legendary HIV has same detectability than stock Kurfurst.

 

I'm obviously talking about taking advantage of concealment in cruisers like Zao, Mino, Worcester etc. If you put your Mino in clear view of a BB within 9km you're gonna get deleted, the detectability is there to be used if you need it

 

Or i can just take a Marblehead/Kirov and get outspotted by a GC :cap_fainting: *insert many other Cruiser <-> BB combos here*

Not everything is hightier, and not every Cruiser can handle any BB even on hightiers. I got 12,7 on Hindi, and Republique would come down to 13,1... 400m wont save me, considering he is faster aswell. And with a Hindi you want to AVOID a Republique since you cant angle against that. So better concealment my [edited]:cap_tea:

Conqueror can easily outspot Hindi, Moskva and Henri.

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Just now, ForlornSailor said:

 

Have you ever concidered looking up facts before asking other people questions that make no sense?

How can you even write that sentence and talking about making no sense?

 

Look up facts regarding what?

 

Zao is a perfect example of a cruiser that can take advantage of its excellent concealment to just disappear if it needs to. You can kite ships with it all day and when you need, you just stop firing and your detectability drops to like 9.6km, now it even has 12km torps it can use while concealed. If firing makes you visible, but you could stealth and repair and reposition if you stopped firing, stop firing!

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[BNI]
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The best thing to do is nerf the BB by making the dispersion GREAT at GREAT range.

The most BB players stay way back from the action, and play like a snipers-class. The acuracy is too good, so berf it hard, and maybe then, maybe then, BB players start to play there role.

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1 minute ago, Benser said:

Look up facts regarding what?

 

Easy. Regarding this.

 

48 minutes ago, Benser said:

counters the advantages cruisers have over BBs like their lower detectability,

 

2 minutes ago, Benser said:

Zao is a perfect example of a cruiser that can take advantage of its excellent concealment to just disappear if it needs to.

 


wow. You found one Cruiser with good concealment. You do understand, thats its usualy not the BB, that the Zao is firing on, that is spotting the Zao? details, right?

 

3 minutes ago, Benser said:

. If firing makes you visible, but you could stealth and repair and reposition if you stopped firing, stop firing!

 

Even more an advantage for BBabys. They often blink, due to their long reload, effectivly minimizing the DPM they are taking from crusers. Congratz, you just gave even more meaning to my point.

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Or i can just take a Marblehead/Kirov and get outspotted by a GC :cap_fainting: *insert many other Cruiser <-> BB combos here*

Not everything is hightier, and not every Cruiser can handle any BB even on hightiers. I got 12,7 on Hindi, and Republique would come down to 13,1... 400m wont save me, considering he is faster aswell. And with a Hindi you want to AVOID a Republique since you cant angle against that. So better concealment my [edited]:cap_tea:

Conqueror can easily outspot Hindi, Moskva and Henri.

I like how I said I'm obviously talking about using concealment to your advantage with cruisers that have good concealment and you go on to just talk about the cruisers that don't have good concealment, it's not a universal solution, but an option for the cruisers that have workable concealment values.

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2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

wow. You found one Cruiser with good concealment. You do understand, thats its usualy not the BB, that the Zao is firing on, that is spotting the Zao? details, right?

Why would you think that I am suggesting that a single tactic works in every situation?

 

I have clearly been generalising when referring to the cruiser class as a whole, you can claim that cruisers have better detectability or speed or agility on average compared to the average BB but obviously that is not a universal absolute.

 

In the exact same way that the original post of this thread simply generalised all BBs and all CAs together when making their suggestion.

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4 minutes ago, Benser said:

I like how I said I'm obviously talking about using concealment to your advantage with cruisers that have good concealment and you go on to just talk about the cruisers that don't have good concealment, it's not a universal solution, but an option for the cruisers that have workable concealment values.

 

And why are those other cruisers being denied concealment advantage over BBs? Clearly they have smaller caliber guns and are smaller in size, yet they have worse concealment.

Just admit that making a general statement "Cruisers have concealment advantage over BBs" is simply wrong. Or you think that those Cruisers cant be devastated? Pretty wrong on that one ....

Zao has even trollish armor so he might get away with it. Moskva probably wont...

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just space out cruiser citadels and make them smaller that way you have to aim more and take more care as too where your shots will land.

 

And no don't make them impossibly small just not the size they are currently.

 

that vid show casing alpha gameplay looks quite interesting and is what the game should be anyways. Just make the shells arch rather than plummet straight from the skies.

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1 hour ago, aboomination said:

 

 

Tbh that dosn't look that bad. Why did they scrap that?

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