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CV Rework Discussion

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1 minute ago, OVanBruce said:

And people utterly hated that so much that CV cuddling happened 1 out of 3 battles at best.

 

Oh, trust me, I know.

But considering people are now going to hate CVs even more than before it's pretty safe to say that WG doesn't care what we love or hate.

(or maybe they're going to love them because every braindead potato can play them now?)

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1 minute ago, elblancogringo said:

Jeez what don't you understand when they say the balance has TO START YET.

They will modify all the damage values, bombs spreads and everything.

Wait at least for the early tests to whine about damage.

We are discussing the basis of the carrier showcase stream today, not trying to guess what they might can do in future. Am i missing something ?

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Just now, El2aZeR said:

 

Oh, trust me, I know.

But considering people are now going to hate CVs even more than before it's pretty safe to say that WG doesn't care what we love or hate.

(or maybe they're going to love them because every braindead potato can play them now?)

Because people already love BBs and don't regularly curse them in chat?

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[THESO]
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One of the most important sentences from @Sub_Octavian etched in my mind is,

 

"We definitely want to prevent the ability of being more than 1 spot at the same time to be removed"

 

I believe this really frames the idea behind the rework..

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1 minute ago, OVanBruce said:

Believe me there is A LOT of dynamism, A LOT of action,  A LOT of high paced stuff in current CV gameplay. But you didn't like it, that's fine, you can play other class. Don't destroy the gameplay of another class.

They destroyed the gameplay of a class played by what... 4% of their playerbase?

Why would they not do it? They might make a very little amount of players angry, while having the opportunity to drag a lot more new players instead.

This is a perfectly logical move from wargaming.

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1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

And now imagine how you can flood an IJN BB by torping its bow, then you wait ten seconds and flood it again.

Sub-Octavian said something about the squadron having to fly AWAY from the target, then setup another attack run (where more preparation and aiming is needed to increase your chances of success) so that you don't get rapid re-attack.

Plus everything is up for balance anyway, e.g. damage control cool down, AA,  strength of aircraft ordnance, aircraft survivability etc.

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28 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

What can I say? Studying game design payed off big time.

Also you better use all that free exp to get a Midway or Haku asap. Can't wait for hilarious CV div. :Smile_trollface:

 

 

- fighters are practically gone

- AA got such a massive nerf you have to stack hilariously for it to be effective (long/mid range AA can be dodged, only short range AA counts now)

- single squadron attacks a few planes at a time = multiple attacks from a single squad = hilarious dot stacking = guaranteed death of the target

- rockets with which it is literally impossible to miss thanks to huge spread + high density. Also it seems like those rockets set fires 100% guaranteed

 

Basically CVs have gone from team support to ludicrous damage farming monsters that can delete ships at will. Just as I predicted all those months ago.

On the bright side every red potato should be able to play them now. If you can call it a "bright" side.

 

With all due respect, mate, Sub_O did say multiple times during the stream that the damage levels, as shown, of both the attacking aircraft and the AA were anything but representative of the ultimate, finished product but that rather we were there to look at the basic concept of the changed gameplay and not get hung up on relative power levels. He specifically asked us to ignore that side of things as they fully intended to tweak all of those kinds of "settings".

 

Now, remembering that this is WG we are talking about, whether the final tweaked version represents anything resembling decent balance is possibly up for debate but I guess we will ultimately have to just wait and see.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

But considering people are now going to hate CVs even more than before it's pretty safe to say that WG doesn't care what we love or hate.

I think it is "safe to say" that WG does care about what Battleship players think.

The (in)famous  BBBaby Bingo card  got filled to pander to their whims.  (Grrr)

 

The success of the new carrier play is as much about how the BB lobby reacts to it as it is about how attractive the gameplay is.

 

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5 minutes ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

Sub-Octavian said something about the squadron having to fly AWAY from the target, then setup another attack run (where more preparation and aiming is needed to increase your chances of success) so that you don't get rapid re-attack.

Plus everything is up for balance anyway, e.g. damage control cool down, AA,  strength of aircraft ordnance, aircraft survivability etc.

Or just nerf flooding dmg. There are so many possibilities to make that work ;D

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1 minute ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

Sub-Octavian said something about the squadron having to fly AWAY from the target, then setup another attack run (where more preparation and aiming is needed to increase your chances of success) so that you don't get rapid re-attack.

Plus everything is up for balance anyway, e.g. damage control cool down, AA,  strength of aircraft ordnance, aircraft survivability etc.

You saw the prototype. If they don't change it, it is possible. If they change it, unless the setup is prohibitively long, you'll just setup while even USN 20 second damecon runs out. The thing is, the setup time is to avoid dropping all torps/bombs in quick succession for the alpha strike, but it is perfect for the DoT stacking. And DoT is what they stated they wanted.

 

And when CV can control exactly one squadron, how much AA do you think will ships get? Either CVs will be able to get reliably through, or they'll suck so hard there's no point to playing them. And if we look at stuff like GZ that already drops through defAA and devstrikes cruisers, I do not have high hopes for AA. If CVs should be enjoyable in this new system, AA has to be kept to levels were strikes go through, where the setup of multiple minutes isn't wasted.

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9 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

They destroyed the gameplay of a class played by what... 4% of their playerbase?

Why would they not do it? They might make a very little amount of players angry, while having the opportunity to drag a lot more new players instead.

This is a perfectly logical move from wargaming.

 

You are basically justifying the devs dumbing down the game so that potatoes can now feel good. Nice going. :cap_book:

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Just now, OVanBruce said:

 

You are basically justifying the devs dumbing down the game. Nice going. :cap_book:

dumbing down?

this is not my opinion at all.

If only 4% of the playerbase plays something, there is clearly something wrong.

Time to cure.

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Looks totally like Ground-Attack-Aircraft gameplay in World-of-Warplanes. I like it :fish_cute_2:

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21 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Basically CVs have gone from team support to ludicrous damage farming monsters that can delete ships at will. Just as I predicted all those months ago.

On the bright side every red potato should be able to play them now. If you can call it a "bright" side.

In my experience the CV's have never (ok extremely rarely, so I call it neglegible) team supporters. So nothing changed here. I trust you completely in your insights. I take it CV's will become worse damage monsters. I'll have to see it in action first but if your prediction confirms to be true I think I'm a goner. I'm beyond sick and tired of CV's already. (The class, not the person to make that clear). I'm in no need to get one shot out of nowhere in the first 3 minutes all the times without being able to do something back.

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2 minutes ago, OVanBruce said:

 

You are basically justifying the devs dumbing down the game. Nice going. :cap_book:

Well, I can understand their reasoning. The CV class is 25% of all classes. yet less than 5% play it. So clearly something needs to be done. 

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12 minutes ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

Sub-Octavian said something about the squadron having to fly AWAY from the target, then setup another attack run (where more preparation and aiming is needed to increase your chances of success) so that you don't get rapid re-attack.

 

Well, the stream showcased different things. From hit to reengage point you need about 40 seconds.

Which, if you consider that DCP active time is 10-20 seconds, is a death sentence for BBs.

As for cruisers and DDs, well, you have ROCKETS that have a cd of 5 seconds and barely need you to maneuver before you can attack again.

 

7 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

With all due respect, mate, Sub_O did say multiple times during the stream that the damage levels, as shown, of both the attacking aircraft and the AA were anything but representative of the ultimate, finished product but that rather we were there to look at the basic concept of the changed gameplay and not than get hung up on relative power levels. He specifically asked us to ignore that side of things as they fully intended to tweak all of those kinds of "settings".

 

While true, the goal of the rework doesn't change. Basically the aim is to make CVs dot stacking damage farming monsters, so I have no doubt that WG is going to pursue that relentlessly.

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1 minute ago, Ferry_25 said:

In my experience the CV's have never (ok extremely rarely, so I call it neglegible) team supporters. So nothing changed here. I trust you completely in your insights. I take it CV's will become worse damage monsters. I'll have to see it in action first but if your prediction confirms to be true I think I'm a goner. I'm beyond sick and tired of CV's already. (The class, not the person to make that clear). I'm in no need to get one shot out of nowhere in the first 3 minutes all the times without being able to do something back.

The best thing is, people can't really complain now, that the cv is not supporting them, since you don'T have real fighters and the cv can only be at one place (and with strike planes, he won't be around allies). That's the worst at the current gameplay, that people are mean to cv's because of that support issue thing

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1 minute ago, Ferry_25 said:

In my experience the CV's have never (ok extremely rarely, so I call it neglegible) team supporters. So nothing changed here. I trust you completely in your insights. I take it CV's will become worse damage monsters. I'll have to see it in action first but if your prediction confirms to be true I think I'm a goner. I'm beyond sick and tired of CV's already. (The class, not the person to make that clear). I'm in no need to get one shot out of nowhere in the first 3 minutes all the times without being able to do something back.

And what about AA tweaking?

They can make the AA really powerful to prevent the CV to do all their 4 runs per squad.

In history, most of planes were destroyed in action and never came back to CV.

Once again, everything is to be balanced yet, they told us several times they want to remove the devastating strike potential, so I'm sure AA will be a big thing now.

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3 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

dumbing down?

this is not my opinion at all.

If only 4% of the playerbase plays something, there is clearly something wrong.

Time to cure.

 

1 minute ago, Linkaex said:

Well, I can understand their reasoning. The CV class is 25% of all classes. yet less than 5% play it. So clearly something needs to be done. 

And certainly it was the high skill level needed and not the absolutely unintuitive and sometimes buggy UI that made people abandon CVs. Heck, the first thing I considered when they said only autopilot for ship steering was how awesome that'll be when the system bugs out again (like it does at times for autopilot and bots) and steers your CV somewhere else where you never clicked, but you don't know, because you're watching your one squadron.

 

And then you have to find out how to adjust without WASD keys.

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4 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

And DoT is what they stated they wanted.

What they say they wanted is gameplay balance.

Like over and over and over and over.

All the settings are STILL UP FOR GRABS. :Smile_Default:

For all we know they might do something daft like offering unlimited damage control as a counter to unlimited planes - so only actual damage counts. Or introduce guided missiles.

Seeing some of the stuff coming from WG to make this 100% an arcade game and reemove the last vestiges of reality, almost any fantasy is possible! :Smile_teethhappy:

 

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1 minute ago, Linkaex said:

Well, I can understand their reasoning. The CV class is 25% of all classes. yet less than 5% play it. So clearly something needs to be done. 

You seem to don't know how much CV mains have tried, and tried HARD both inside AND outside supertest to help WG make the current RTS be more popular and aproachable. The problem is that WG straight REFUSED to listen and rather arrogantly brushed off almost all advice and never paid proper attention to CVs. In the dev team there is NOT A SINGLE CV main player and their interest on it in its RTS setting is almost ZERO. The current state of CVs are totally Lesta's fault on how lazy they have been since forever.

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2 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

They can make the AA really powerful to prevent the CV to do all their 4 runs per squad.

 

Who cares? Infinite reserves, remember? You may even do the CV a favor by instantly readying his next squad.

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6 minutes ago, Ferry_25 said:

In my experience the CV's have never (ok extremely rarely, so I call it neglegible) team supporters. So nothing changed here. I trust you completely in your insights. I take it CV's will become worse damage monsters. I'll have to see it in action first but if your prediction confirms to be true I think I'm a goner. I'm beyond sick and tired of CV's already. (The class, not the person to make that clear). I'm in no need to get one shot out of nowhere in the first 3 minutes all the times without being able to do something back.

Doesn't watch CV rework stream.

CV gameplay still in testing and talks about leaving the game.

 

Image result for drama queen meme

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1 minute ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

Or introduce guided missiles.

Seeing some of the stuff coming from WG to make this 100% an arcade game and reemove the last vestiges of reality, almost any fantasy is possible! :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Submarines and cold war+ ships and weapons confirmed bois!

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