CV Rework Discussion

[Darth_Glorious]

 

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Btw, I revise my opinion on the Tiny TIms, they actually  DDs pretty hard once you get the hang of them. Given that they're also better than HVARs against cruisers and BBs they're clearly the superior option.

Last game had a strike package deal 11k to a Shima with only 6 hits. Had I followed that up with another set it would've been a kill easily.

[iJoby]

Just got my invite, so thanks for all the feedback guys.

[ghostbuster_]

played 3 battles with new CVs and im already bored... well done WG

[Pikkozoikum]

6 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

played 3 battles with new CVs and im already bored... well done WG

Played 21 games, still fun

[Pikkozoikum]

On 10/19/2018 at 11:46 AM, Darth_Glorious said:

 

Guess he doesn't understand how the AA works. The mid range is the most devastating AA, but it has a pattern, it often shoots multiple bursts at the same area, so the first salvo is mable unpredictble, but the following are not.

[ghostbuster_]

7 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Played 21 games, still fun

right now we have people who enjoy current cv gameplay and who doesnt enjoy it. its the same story with the new cv gameplay. what a great change...

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, ghostbuster_ said:

right now we have people who enjoy current cv gameplay and who doesnt enjoy it. its the same story with the new cv gameplay. what a great change...

Yes, that's always the case, but there are not many, who enjoy the current cv gameplay. And there will be always people, who are not satisfied. But actually it's not about who like it and who not, there are balancing issues as well.

[Darth_Glorious]

For me, it looks more spectacular but it becomes too repetitive after that early impression

[ghostbuster_]

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Yes, that's always the case, but there are not many, who enjoy the current cv gameplay. And there will be always people, who are not satisfied. But actually it's not about who like it and who not, there are balancing issues as well.

there were other ways to blance the rts gameplay. many solutions were made to WG but they didnt listen any of them. and how do we know that we are gonna have more people enjoying this crap new gameplay? because i saw so many people who got bored really quick after few battles.

[Pikkozoikum]

16 ore fa, Darth_Glorious ha scritto:

For me, it looks more spectacular but it becomes too repetitive after that early impression

Every pvp game is repetitive? I never unterstood these kind argumentation. When you play bb, you do all the time the same. ^^'

 

16 ore fa, ghostbuster_ ha scritto:

there were other ways to blance the rts gameplay. many solutions were made to WG but they didnt listen any of them. and how do we know that we are gonna have more people enjoying this crap new gameplay? because i saw so many people who got bored really quick after few battles.

You can't avoide it, that some people will get bored. I get bored quickly by the current gameplay. I do someitmes a game, and then it bores me.

I'm really bored by looking at the RTS style.

Watching the new is more interesting, playing is pretty immersive. Especially the dive bombing, I love that. It also feels rewarding, when you hit 3 times the citadell ^^'

[Darth_Glorious]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Every pvp game is repetitive? I never unterstood these kind argumentation. When you play bb, you do all the time the same. ^^'

T10 is fun but T6 is hopelessly boring, too much back and forth between the CV and the target

[ghostbuster_]

7 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You can't avoide it, that some people will get bored. I get bored quickly by the current gameplay. I do someitmes a game, and then it bores me.

I'm really bored by looking at the RTS style.

Watching the new is more interesting, playing is pretty immersive. Especially the dive bombing, I love that. It also feels rewarding, when you hit 3 times the citadell ^^'

well those ap bombs are retarded in both gameplays. in rts and in the new one. so you find new mechanic interesting. for how long? and how can you say that this new crap is gonna  be liked by more players?  so you say screw the guys who like rts gameplay. and i say screw the guys who enjoy the new gameplay. 

[Pikkozoikum]

22 minutes ago, Darth_Glorious said:

T10 is fun but T6 is hopelessly boring, too much back and forth between the CV and the target

T6 felt a bit unfinished, maybe it was intented, but maybe it's really not finished yet? I don't know

 

13 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

well those ap bombs are retarded in both gameplays. in rts and in the new one. so you find new mechanic interesting. for how long? and how can you say that this new crap is gonna  be liked by more players?  so you say screw the guys who like rts gameplay. and i say screw the guys who enjoy the new gameplay. 

They're retarded in the current version. left click instant kill. In the new version you're able to dodge them pretty well and you can't get one shoted, That is huge difference.

I'm not a fortune teller... so I can't say. But I can say it's more interesting, then it was when I started with CVs in the old version ;)

 

The RTS is still broken, fixing it is pretty hard, maybe impossible, because it is not only one reason, why it doesn't work.. It's the decision of Wargaming if you like it or not. I also don't see a reason to keep a terrible design like we got it on the current version

[ghostbuster_]

22 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

 

They're retarded in the current version. left click instant kill. In the new version you're able to dodge them pretty well and you can't get one shoted, That is huge difference.

I'm not a fortune teller... so I can't say. But I can say it's more interesting, then it was when I started with CVs in the old version ;)

 

The RTS is still broken, fixing it is pretty hard, maybe impossible, because it is not only one reason, why it doesn't work.. It's the decision of Wargaming if you like it or not. I also don't see a reason to keep a terrible design like we got it on the current version

in this new version you can deal the same damage with time there is almost no difference. besides you can also dodge the current ap bomb drops. 

it is not. they didnt even try to fix it or balance it. unlike trying to fix it, they introduced freaking AP bombs... for you the current version is terrible which actually rewards the good player against a potato. for me this new system is r.tarded because i can not deny enemy cv. 

[Pikkozoikum]

13 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

in this new version you can deal the same damage with time there is almost no difference. besides you can also dodge the current ap bomb drops. 

it is not. they didnt even try to fix it or balance it. unlike trying to fix it, they introduced freaking AP bombs... for you the current version is terrible which actually rewards the good player against a potato. for me this new system is r.tarded because i can not deny enemy cv. 

That's why it is unbalanced. The CV has to much impact. Is there a good CV and a bad CV player, then the team with the good CV player has a huge advantage, because the CV has more value than any other ship type. 

 

[El2aZeR]

59 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That is huge difference.

 

I just managed 100k damage in the first 5 minutes of the match along with two kills on both a player controlled BB and DD.

Indeed a huge difference. In current CVs I'd get at most 1 kill on a DD by that time.

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I just managed 100k damage in the first 5 minutes of the match along with two kills on both a player controlled BB and DD.

Indeed a huge difference. In current CVs I'd get at most 1 kill on a DD by that time.

In every match? I got 4k base EP in the Yamato, op ship

[ghostbuster_]

6 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That's why it is unbalanced. The CV has to much impact. Is there a good CV and a bad CV player, then the team with the good CV player has a huge advantage, because the CV has more value than any other ship type. 

 

so problem is people being to dumb or they dont want to learn how to play properly. and wg did anything about it since 3 years? nope. did they make any tutorials? did they try to teach people how to play it? nope nothing. they also removed manual attack from t4 and t5 cvs where new players learned the basics of cv gameplay, so newbies can geet bitchslapped in tier 7... nice

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, ghostbuster_ said:

so problem is people being to dumb or they dont want to learn how to play properly. and wg did anything about it since 3 years? nope. did they make any tutorials? did they try to teach people how to play it? nope nothing. they also removed manual attack from t4 and t5 cvs where new players learned the basics of cv gameplay, so newbies can geet bitchslapped in tier 7... nice

There is always a better player. Nothing to with to "dumb". I guess I would beat most of the CV players, but every unicum would beat me in general. And when one CV is winning over the other one, the team is more or less helpless (beside aa bubbles). But doesn't matter, the rework will come, it's about to improve it, and not to deny it

[El2aZeR]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

In every match? I got 4k base EP in the Yamato, op ship

 

I have yet to play a match in which I didn't get at least 150k damage along with Witherer, Arsonist, Confederate and the like.

 

Active maneuvering is only so successful because most people do not know how to play reworked CVs. The impact hasn't changed, in fact it has imo increased along with the skill gap, the players have.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I have yet to play a match in which I didn't get at least 150k damage along with Witherer, Arsonist, Confederate and the like.

 

Active maneuvering is only so successful because most people do not know how to play reworked CVs. The impact hasn't changed, in fact it has imo increased along with the skill gap, the players have.

Active maneurvering has more success, because there is no cross dropping. The impact will change, you don't have 7 squads for spotting. You can't instant kill a target, even if the bb is alone

 If the bb is alone, he still deserves to die slowly. But that is also a point, if you stick around with cruisers, it's more likely, that you want be able to get all the drops off. I guess it's also not possible to one shot Des Moines with AP bombs any longer? Many changed and I like that.

I got attacked by two carries today and one of them did good drops, but I survived really long. In the current version I would just die instantly, but he needed multiple squads.

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Active maneurvering has more success, because there is no cross dropping.

 

I can reengage within 15 seconds and still make a cross drop. Doesn't work against DDs and cruisers due to slow torp speed (which might change if we get access to torp acceleration) but BBs are fair game. Any BB is pretty much guaranteed to die within two attacks unless RNGesus says no and doesn't give you any floodings.

At which point you can just come back within a minute with DBs and kill him regardless.

 

As for AP bombs, why would you need them when HE bombs deal the same damage + fires along with being more accurate? In fact Haku AP DBs are vastly inferior to Midway HE DBs.

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I can reengage within 15 seconds and still make a cross drop. Doesn't work against DDs and cruisers due to slow torp speed but BBs are fair game. Any BB is pretty much guaranteed to die within two attacks unless RNGesus says no and doesn't give you any floodings.

At which point you can just come back within a minute with DBs and kill him regardless.

 

As for AP bombs, why would you need them when HE bombs deal the same damage + fires along with being more accurate?

AP bombs do more damage, I guess? Also there is a citadell healing mechanic

[El2aZeR]

9 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

AP bombs do more damage, I guess? Also there is a citadell healing mechanic

 

Currently Haku AP bombs have an alpha strike of 9600. A single attack with 3 citadel hits can thus yield 28800 damage. They also have a far worse drop pattern so you're more likely to miss.

Midway HE bombs have an alpha strike of 15300, each DB also drops two bombs. A single attack with 6 penetrations thus can yield 30600 damage + pretty much guaranteed fires.

 

Both repair cooldown and DCP do not cycle fast enough to matter. If a BB doesn't use DCP and heal, fires will consume him before the final attack. If the BB does use DCP and heal, you'll have to deal with permanent fires and die regardless. Cruisers and DDs just die to straight up alpha strike from HE bombs.

 

The only time when AP bombs are superior is when attacking CVs with an armored flight deck. HE bombs simply shatter on both Midway and Haku decks while AP bombs will at least score penetrations.