CV Rework Discussion

[El2aZeR]

Just now, CptBarney said:

Whats your next planned winrate goal?

 

80% should be doable if I play nothing but CVs. 

[CptBarney]

Just now, El2aZeR said:

 

80% should be doable if I play nothing but CVs. 

Well there goes enty’s legs i guess.

Speaking of legs did the king of dots get yers yet?

[El2aZeR]

5 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Speaking of legs did the king of dots get yers yet?

 

Nope.

Also still waiting for those lawyers the other dude wanted to send. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

This whole thread seems like a made up scenario for a forum RPG. 

Tales of the King of dots. El2a the antihero. Lawyers and the never ending cycle and fight around CV's, mystical beings ultimately under the control of our protagonist. 

[CptBarney]

4 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Nope.

Also still waiting for those lawyers the other dude wanted to send. 

AHh well he tried, got to give him the effort, was suprised when his ‘sister’ made an apperance doe.

has he been perma banned or just temp banned for a long time?

 

curious as to how you managed that lol. forgotten mostly what happened.

[CptBarney]

10 minutes ago, Yoshanai said:

This whole thread seems like a made up scenario for a forum RPG. 

Tales of the King of dots. El2a the antihero. Lawyers and the never ending cycle and fight around CV's, mystical beings ultimately under the control of our protagonist. 

I call him dat due to the huge amount of dots he would put in almost every single post.

Also sent me ALOT of pm’s before he left or got banned or whatever.

 

I have no clue what he thinks about cvs today doe, also quite fond of his red wine. He seemed ok untill el2azer and pieranko fought him lol.

 

Although he wouldnt be very good in the current cv’s even with miss hosh or enterprise, wish booogue was bak doe as a tier 6.

[viceadmiral123]

I have two suggestions:

 

1. Reduce the occasions in which t8 carriers are pulled into t10 mm. The gameplay of t8 CVs in t10 is poor and reduced mostly to scouting or focusing single DDs that went away from the group. Since there is no more t9 CVs to buffer t10 games, t8 is selected more often. I have seen quite a few t8 carriers sail to the middle of the map to suicide and not have to stay 20 minutes in a t10 match. In the same manner, t10 CVs shouldn't be put in t8 games as often.

 

2. Regarding balance - overall carriers seem to need more tweaking (as always). My humble observations are that Enterprise seems significantly overpowered at it's tier, not by a small margin. This is odd since WG was doing the "rework" and tweaking all carriers, but left Enterprise like that. 

English carriers have torpedoes that don't lose focus as much as other nations when maneuvering, perhaps that is intended, but it makes them a lot easier to play.

 

Have a nice day.

 

edit: great suggestions and discussion.
Lets carry it to the CV topic.
This topic is merged into the main one!

[Panocek]

-WG doesn't listen unless its constant REEE like it was in NTC case

-WG especially doesn't listen EU forums and chances of bumping into anyone higher than "community manager" are about as high as getting Enterprise off Resources crate you have more luck on REEEddit with that

[Nov_A]

lelwut

 

I may not be that much of a good or experienced CV player but I rarely have to care about the MM, be it T6 or T10. Pretty sure most T8 BBs suffer way more when getting uptiered. Yes, the AA gets stronger, personal influence gets reduced due to bigger amounts of HP, but you are still more than able doing something.

[El2aZeR]

T8 CVs do perfectly fine in T10 matches.

 

Enterprise cannot be tweaked anymore because premium CV balancing was declared finished months ago. This is why she has been pulled from the store just like Belfast or Giulio Cesare.

Also the state of Enterprise was not only left as it is, she got severely buffed due to the extreme incompetence of the average CV player.

 

RN CVs are on the low end of the CV power spectrum. If their torps weren't as good as they are, and they're already pretty mediocre, you may as well remove them.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

If you think Enterprise is the only T8 CV highly OP wait until you see what Shokaku can do and that one at least can be tweaked. T10 doesn't matter to Shokaku or Enterprise. 

 

 

[1MajorKoenig]

54 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

that the damage CVs put out is in fact more effective.

 

I don’t necessarily disagree but we can’t measure it. Hence it is hard to use objectively. Not sure if it is even possible to measure though. 

 

What you can measure is % of health rather than raw values. Which is done already for XP calc - however the XP modifiers for the ships are pretty random in my opinion making base XP gain not a good indicator either. 

 

So yea, % would be a start.

 

Number of frags is an indicator as well but this one includes the entirety of CV kill steals which is particularly easy and common due to the nature of CV gameplay. 

 

Problem with these individual “indications” is that they can be interpreted in different ways - they are not suitable to draw a certain conclusion.

 

Remember - that is what WG tried to compose a “influence” indicator which takes multiple values in a weighted form into consideration. 

 

In my opinion that’s the right approach and the only way to come at least close to something measurable. But it is crystal clear that not everyone will agree about the weighting to begin with. However it makes things more transparent regardless

 

 

 

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Actually I've seen comebacks from the most ridiculous positions, thus this holds more value that most people might think.

 

Which happens - sure. And it is hella good fun if it does. But mostly it is not the case 

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Actually I've seen comebacks from the most ridiculous positions, thus this holds more value that most people might think.

This, two weeks or so ago had a Solo warrior situation left alone against a pushing BB (monarch or alsace dont remember) and 3 cruisers, one cleveland that just went to cap b at two brothers and two of them in a thst just bagged our dd, i was parked behing that island northeast in E, was able to kill the cleve stopping it from caping and evade the bb for win...

[Capra76]

16 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

while that is partially true there is another aspect which is timing. CVs tend to make a lot of damage towards the end of the game when blobs split up and AA is worn down. Partially that is „cleaning house“ only and not necessarily „valuable“ damage as you put it. 

 

And herein lies one of the biggest problems with the CV rework, games are either one sided landslides that end in under 10 minutes (not fun) or CV farming sessions (not fun), with competent CV present the number of games you can actually influence is vastly reduced.

 

Which is why any disucussion about damage output or WR% is pretty much meaningless, the negatives that CV bring to the game are more the indirect effects on gameplay and "fun" than the direct damage effects ships suffer.

[Prospect_b]

36 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

T8 CVs do perfectly fine in T10 matches.

How would you know?

[Bear__Necessities]

23 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Which happens - sure. And it is hella good fun if it does. But mostly it is not the case 

Had 2 in a row last night.  but it's more common than you think in CV's, bailing out teams in losing positions at the end as they either try to win harder, or never tried to win at all.

 

This 1 took the biscuit. I, being the last 1 left had to find and finish the grozovoi, kill the full HP DD Kagero, take 2 caps solo (2/3 of the overall cap points btw) and kill the enemy CV all on my own and even then it was horribly close as I was down to less than 3k HP.

 

[1MajorKoenig]

4 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Which is why any disucussion about damage output or WR% is pretty much meaningless, the negatives that CV bring to the game are more the indirect effects on gameplay and "fun" than the direct damage effects ships suffer.

Issue is: you cannot exclusively discuss based on feelings. You need a much better discussion basis. Hence why:

 

27 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Remember - that is what WG tried to compose a “influence” indicator which takes multiple values in a weighted form into consideration. 

I you have better ones feel free to share  

[Elypse201]

New CV thread every day check
Something about balance check

Okay it's a normal day nothing unusual

[Bear__Necessities]

51 minutes ago, viceadmiral123 said:

IReduce the occasions in which t8 carriers are pulled into t10 mm. The gameplay of t8 CVs in t10 is poor and reduced mostly to scouting or focusing single DDs that went away from the group. Since there is no more t9 CVs to buffer t10 games, t8 is selected more often. I have seen quite a few t8 carriers sail to the middle of the map to suicide and not have to stay 20 minutes in a t10 match. In the same manner, t10 CVs shouldn't be put in t8 games as often.

 

T8's CV in T10 MM is actually a good thing, at least T10 ships can offer a little bit more resistance against a T8 CV.

[veslingr]

10 hours ago, AndyHill said:

No, I really don't and I don't know if it's my fault here. So, to clarify, do you think that it's possible for a class of ships to be op or not? Also what was your point regarding win rate when comparing stats of different ship types in the game? If you can clarify those two things it might be somewhat helpful for the discussion.

No, whole class can not be OP. In CV as class there are 17 ships.....in there some of them were clearly OP and removed from game (same as with other classes) some are balanced and some are underpowered. 

 

 

[veslingr]

11 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Detonations happen by far more often

RNG jesus probably saved me from detonation :)

[Asakka]

22 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

How would you know?

Hes right T8 are fine in t10

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Maybe you Should Learn Reading....

Very smart comment. This helps in every discussion!

Hmm, wondering who are the top players of World of Warship. Takea look at every ship and go for the Top 10. How many ships do we have, over 200? Then we end up with 2000 players. Not really a top 10? ;)

If you do that with CVs, the top 10 player of Shokaku might be the top 70th player of the CVs. But I would do the same to favor my own calculation, guess I should recognize that trick. 

 

edit.: Also taking the top10 of each CV of a week is a unreliable statistic. I checked some of the top 10. That are players with 51% winrate, which just did 10 games that week with a winrate of 80%. They had just "luck" for 10 games to get many wins in a row. I wouldn't call those "the chosen one"
To make a correct calulation we actually need to get 3 conditions. The chance of having a CV game, and then the Chance of having a unicum in this game, and then the chance to have that unicum in the enemy team.

[Asakka]

Holy crap boys almost 500 pages 

[Aixin]

El2aZeR :*laughs in enterprise *