CV Rework Discussion

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, veslingr said:

bots?

 

i just, really, can not grasp how would player with pulse do 40k dmg in Stalingrad on average....

 

I mean, aren't bots more skilled than the average player?

Isn't that why WG made coop bots dumber quite some time ago because the average player couldn't handle such a "high" skill level?

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Yes, but I would say, it's because of hidden statistic, and someone mentioned, draws count as loses. So that would explain it

I forgot about draws too be honest. Think i had a total of 30? I think. My most famous was oneshotting a rhm in my amx 13 f3 tier 6 arty while blasted me and thought he won, lol.

[veslingr]

2 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Yes, but I would say, it's because of hidden statistic, and someone mentioned, draws count as loses. So that would explain it

there is no hidden stats in this game....when peoples will learn this? :)

[veslingr]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I mean, aren't bots more skilled than the average player?

Isn't that why WG made coop bots dumber quite some time ago because the average player couldn't handle such a "high" skill level?

yeah..but those guys grinded steel somehow...aint they?

[El2aZeR]

Just now, veslingr said:

yeah..but those guys grinded steel somehow...aint they?

 

Snowflakes + buying steel?

That was possible last Xmas season, no?

[veslingr]

Just now, El2aZeR said:

 

Snowflakes + buying steel?

That was possible last Xmas season, no?

yeah, but 30 k? or 24 k with cupon?

 

on more serious note....those mostly are sold accounts

[Bear__Necessities]

29 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Except they have been replaced by new unicums who decide matches just as much singlehandedly as RTS unicums did before.

Nice of you to leave out that little detail. "Hurr durr at least those unicums have left the game,  them."

 

What can be compared is the amount of counterplay, because that can actually be quantified. For example:

If I attack a DM with RTS Midway, even with AP DBs, and he has a partial AA build + DFAA, he will wipe out all my squadrons and I will deal little to no damage to him. I will incur a severe penalty in plane reserves and service time. Eventually I will be deplaned for having dealt negligible damage to the DM.

If I attack a DM with reworked Midway, I will deal severe damage despite him having DFAA and a partial or even full AA build. I will incur no penalty due to my reserves being ludicrously larger than before and service time being nonexistent. Eventually the DM will die, while I will be just as powerful as before.

 

This can be repeated with any ship or even ship group and the results will be vastly in favor of reworked CVs.

Therefore scientifically speaking reworked CVs are objectively far worse for surface ship gameplay than RTS CVs ever were. Your personal opinion may differ, however that is irrelevant as it is simply wrong.

New Unicum here 

 

You are correct. I decided A LOT of my games.

CV’s have more influence than DD’s could ever hope to have and DD’s used to be the go to influence class due to low level numbers of RTS CV’s.

 

Early game impact, like say... spotting all 12 enemies, maybe killing of a few DD’s. Mid game impact, getting cap resets and focusing key targets like cruisers that cannot heal or who traditionally controlled zones, like USN and RU cruisers. 

 

Late game, farming the BB’s left exposed and alone and killing of low HP targets. 

 

Glorious balance. From the truly broken and most powerful class in game.

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, veslingr said:

yeah, but 30 k? or 24 k with cupon?

 

Possible, yes.

 

4 minutes ago, veslingr said:

on more serious note....those mostly are sold accounts

 

That can be true as well.

 

Regardless such players exist and thus disprove that Stalingrad is ez mode for potatoes.

[CptBarney]

2 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

New Unicum here 

 

You are correct. I decided A LOT of my games.

CV’s have more influence than DD’s could ever hope to have and DD’s used to be the go to influence class due to low level numbers of RTS CV’s.

 

Early game impact, like say... spotting all 12 enemies, maybe killing of a few DD’s. Mid game impact, getting cap resets and focusing key targets like cruisers that cannot heal or who traditionally controlled zones, like USN and RU cruisers. 

 

Late game, farming the BB’s left exposed and alone and killing of low HP targets. 

 

Glorious balance. From the truly broken and most powerful class in game.

Im getting close myself almost about to hit 57%, almost 2,5k solo games i might reach 60% overall at 4k games i reckon.

[Pikkozoikum]

16 minutes ago, veslingr said:

there is no hidden stats in this game....when peoples will learn this? :)

I don't know about WoT, but in WoWS you can hide yout statistic

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I don't know about WoT, but in WoWS you can hide yout statistic

They have anonymizer now, i think that hides your stas plus generates a new name for you.

although i suspect peeps will focus them hard lol.

 

ironically enough without xvm i wouldnt of bothered to get better.

 

also im very confused on how we managed to win against a 58% winrate player in a shokaku while our lexi was a 42%er.

wat.

[Bear__Necessities]

7 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Im getting close myself almost about to hit 57%, almost 2,5k solo games i might reach 60% overall at 4k games i reckon.

It took me about 2500 DD games to reach a steady 60% WR, that was before rework CV's, taking into account ALL the meta changes and mechanic changes.

 

I was Unicum on rework CV's by 600 games in post 8.6 (the patch they removed RPF from CV's as I had not touched them by that point) and in 1000 games i'm at 65% WR and climbing.

 

Now, I was already good at this game before I ventured off into the land of Fun Police, but it shows how dominant they are. Bad players, players with sub 50% WR across the none CV classes where suddenly hitting near or on unicum numbers. And experienced players??? Well, you have a new batch of super unicums that can win games on their own. 

 

Basically making the rework pointless but WG lots of money. Outstanding business, I doth my cap to them on that. 

[veslingr]

6 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I don't know about WoT, but in WoWS you can hide yout statistic

Like this? :)

[Pikkozoikum]

5 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

also im very confused on how we managed to win against a 58% winrate player in a shokaku while our lexi was a 42%er.

wat.

From the statistic explanation it's obvioius, a 58% winrate CV lost 42% of his games, thus there must be loses, I'm pretty sure, those 42% wasn'T all against unicums ;)

I have pretty decend statistics with Kaga, but I also lose against below avrage players.

 

Also a CV doesn't have that much impact. Good dd player will get the caps and the points and win the game. The problem here is, that many people who are argue here have always a certain scenario in mind, and not the general case. A CV is not killing 4 dds, 5 bbs and winnning the game alone and that every match.

 

I mean, some are like they got once really hard hit by a CV and then it means "Every match a CV always one shots me". totally overexaggerated. It happens, but it also happens that other ships do dev strikes. It's not the general case, that the CV is the only winning condition.

 

Spoiler

Here an example. I play my Mogami on stock in a T10 CV match, and yet I'm the one with the most points. That is not a rare case. Would that be a win, if I would be a 40% WR player?

 

Here an example, where the enemy CV is at the bottom and still wins.

 

 

The CV might more impact to the game, then other ship types, but that is okay to a certain degree. It just shouldn't be too much, that everything hangs on this one player, and that's clearly not the case. Otherwise I would have a higher winrate, I assume.

 

 

[veslingr]

2 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

From the statistic explanation it's obvioius, a 58% winrate CV lost 42% of his games, thus there must be loses, I'm pretty sure, those 42% wasn'T all against unicums ;)

I have pretty decend statistics with Kaga, but I also lose against below avrage players.

 

Also a CV doesn't have that much impact. Good dd player will get the caps and the points and win the game. The problem here is, that many people who are argue here have always a certain scenario in mind, and not the general case. A CV is not killing 4 dds, 5 bbs and winnning the game alone and that every match.

 

I mean, some are like they got once really hard hit by a CV and then it means "Every match a CV always one shots me". totally overexaggerated. It happens, but it also happens that other ships do dev strikes. It's not the general case, that the CV is the only winning condition.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Here an example. I play my Mogami on stock in a T10 CV match, and yet I'm the one with the most points. That is not a rare case. Would that be a win, if I would be a 40% WR player?

 

Here an example, where the enemy CV is at the bottom and still wins.

 

 

The CV might more impact to the game, then other ship types, but that is okay to a certain degree. It just shouldn't be too much, that everything hangs on this one player, and that's clearly not the case. Otherwise I would have a higher winrate, I assume.

 

 

Average dmg of CV on t8 and average kills showa CV can max put out 1 ships. Rest is on team. 

[Pikkozoikum]

19 minutes ago, veslingr said:

Like this? :)

Does that matter for the statistic websites, that we use? The statistic websites we were talking about, are not using the hidden profiles, as long as I know.

[El2aZeR]

14 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Also a CV doesn't have that much impact.

14 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The CV might more impact to the game, then other ship types

 

Say that again.

Slowly.

[Pikkozoikum]

21 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Say that again.

Slowly.

Read again.

Slowly.

 

But maybe I should help with understanding it.

The first quote goes to those, who say, that CV always kills everything - those who overexaggerate.

The second quote just means, that there is no perfect balance. There will be always ships, that has more influence than others. Should be common sense, since there is not perfect balance as soon we generate variety.

[El2aZeR]

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The first quote goes to those, who say, that CV always kills everything - those who overexaggerate.

 

Except people like you are always saying that a reworked CV should always be able to attack and kill any target. How is that an exaggeration if it is not only true, but "working as intended"?

 

5 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

There will be always ship, that has more influence than others.

 

While true, this is usually balanced out by severe shortcomings in several areas.

Which for reworked CVs do not exist as they excel in every relevant category.

[Allied_Winter]

4 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The first quote goes to those, who say, that CV always kills everything - those who overexaggerate.

The second quote just means, that there is no perfect balance. There will be always ship, that has more influence than others. Should be common sense, since the is not perfect balance as soon we generate variety.

Or in short: 
 

The CV is not the Be All, End All class because there are far too many players around that can't do anything with this class.

 

However: If you meet one of the chosen few, they upset the balance so much in their favour that it isn't funny anymore.

[veslingr]

4 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Or in short: 
 

The CV is not the Be All, End All class because there are far too many players around that can't do anything with this class.

 

However: If you meet one of the chosen few, they upset the balance so much in their favour that it isn't funny anymore.

But good thing is that you have less than 1% of chance to meet chosen ones in opposite team. 

 

They are as rear as detonations. 

 

Unpleasant when you meet them. So rare that you can not even remember when you exploded. 

[Uglesett]

FYI: There is no such word as "overexaggerate". The word you're looking for is "exaggerate". 

[Allied_Winter]

3 minutes ago, veslingr said:

They are as rear as detonations. 

Exactly. Though the question remains if this is a good game design. Or a bad game design. And sincerely doubt that even over the next 2543725483498234 pages one side will convince the other.

 

I don't have a problem with detonations and I don't have a problem with CV's being in the game as they are. There's little I can add further to the discussion than that.

[Pikkozoikum]

15 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Or in short: 
 

The CV is not the Be All, End All class because there are far too many players around that can't do anything with this class.

 

However: If you meet one of the chosen few, they upset the balance so much in their favour that it isn't funny anymore.

That's not all what i meant. But that's of course true. Though if I have to face a 80% WR CV player, or a 80% WR DD player, I wouldn't say, that it is that much better. But I also think, that a CV is more flexible, than other classes, what a good player could boost more. But then, you have that in every game with different classes. If a good players a flexible class, he can of course do more

 

Thinking about it, the only thing, that bothers me is, that people mostly complain and rant about the rework, often because they prefered the RTS. I would prefer, if people would try to analyse and giving ideas for improvements. But some are just not interested in improvments.

[Pikkozoikum]

15 minutes ago, veslingr said:

But good thing is that you have less than 1% of chance to meet chosen ones in opposite team. 

 

They are as rear as detonations. 

 

Unpleasant when you meet them. So rare that you can not even remember when you exploded. 

Detonations happen by far more often