CV Rework Discussion

[AndyHill]

13 hours ago, veslingr said:

Just look @ average performance of CVs on any tier except 4 and you will see that CV in general are not dooing great in any important stat.

i could pull you stats again, but in general i think we all know that statisticly CV does not show single OP thing.

Unless you take into account the fact that they do double the spotting anyone else does and are all but immortal as well as by far the best cap defenders. Because they also do lots of damage and kills with the best of them, their k/d ratio is through the roof. The only two things carriers are not either good at or in a class of their own are capping and tanking.

[veslingr]

1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Honestly: Is that your argument for CVs beeing balanced? Thats basically waving the white flag, saying "yea its bad but its actually not so bad".

And the server stats are pointing towards a situation, where this isnt even true. CV damage is rising week by week. Because believe it or not, but ppl are still learning this class. Most ppl in other classes have long reached their skill wall. Not the case for CVs obviously.
 

That is my argument why cv do not disturbed balance much.

 

About stats of cv they are not rising. Just stop looking day by day stats. Look last 2 months and compare so period before. 

[veslingr]

3 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

Unless you take into account the fact that they do double the spotting anyone else does and are all but immortal as well as by far the best cap defenders. Because they also do lots of damage and kills with the best of them, their k/d ratio is through the roof. The only two things carriers are not either good at or in a class of their own are capping and tanking.

Why they lack on dmg department? Winrate?

[AndyHill]

They don't lack in damage department, they are good at dealing damage, close to the top in fact. And what exactly do you mean with winrate?

[veslingr]

21 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

They don't lack in damage department, they are good at dealing damage, close to the top in fact. And what exactly do you mean with winrate?

CV cross all tiers are behind BBs. Somebody would expect that CVs will occupy top 3 position in DMG meter across all tiers. But infact they do not. 

 

Tou do not know what WR is? 

[veslingr]

21 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

They don't lack in damage department, they are good at dealing damage, close to the top in fact. And what exactly do you mean with winrate?

CV cross all tiers are behind BBs. Somebody would expect that CVs will occupy top 3 position in DMG meter across all tiers. But infact they do not. 

 

Tou do not know what WR is? 

[Capra76]

3 minutes ago, veslingr said:

Tou do not know what WR is? 

 

The ships are ing mirrored, WR% means nothing.

[AndyHill]

BBs are supposed to be the massive damage dealers and carriers are not that far behind typically. Also BBs typically do a lot of their damage to cruisers and other BBs, whereas carriers excel at hunting DDs, making their damage more effective.

 

Also I do know what WR is, you just need to explain why you think it's in any way relevant to the discussion. 

[veslingr]

5 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

The ships are ing mirrored, WR% means nothing.

Every class has mirror nowdays. 

[veslingr]

5 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

The ships are ing mirrored, WR% means nothing.

Every class has mirror nowdays. 

[veslingr]

6 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

BBs are supposed to be the massive damage dealers and carriers are not that far behind typically. Also BBs typically do a lot of their damage to cruisers and other BBs, whereas carriers excel at hunting DDs, making their damage more effective.

 

Also I do know what WR is, you just need to explain why you think it's in any way relevant to the discussion. 

WR is single most important stat in game when we talk balance

[veslingr]

6 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

BBs are supposed to be the massive damage dealers and carriers are not that far behind typically. Also BBs typically do a lot of their damage to cruisers and other BBs, whereas carriers excel at hunting DDs, making their damage more effective.

 

Also I do know what WR is, you just need to explain why you think it's in any way relevant to the discussion. 

WR is single most important stat in game when we talk balance

[Bear__Necessities]

1 hour ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

Yo, CV unicums of this game, I need your advise.

 

Given I need a T10 CV for the Puerto Rico grind, what would be the better investment? Audacious or Midway? Don't want to go for Hakuryu, but which of the remaining two is the better option to aim for?

Hakuryu is the pinnacle of CV’s in the game. In fact the IJN line is the best line by a mile. Especially against heavy US cruisers.

 

Midway then, but it won’t be anywhere near as effective.

[AndyHill]

So, how much win% do you think carriers should have on average (let's say haku, mid and aud) to be considered overpowered or just good or something?

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Hakuryu is the pinnacle of CV’s in the game. In fact the IJN line is the best line by a mile. Especially against heavy US cruisers.

 

Midway then, but it won’t be anywhere near as effective.

I own an Enterprise. I played Implacable and GZ more than it. As said, I don't care about Hakuryu, I just wanted to know which of the other two is better. 

[Bear__Necessities]

5 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

So, how much win% do you think carriers should have on average (let's say haku, mid and aud) to be considered overpowered or just good or something?

Big damage isn’t the biggest influence CV’s have. It’s where they put it. My Enterprise damage numbers are lower than a few others. Put I slam it into DD’s and cruisers that can’t heal. By the time farming BB’s happen the games are nearly always over and won.

[veslingr]

Just now, Bear_Necessities said:

Damage isn’t the biggest influence CV’s have. It’s where they put it. My Enterprise damage numbers are lower than a few others. Put I slam it into DD’s and cruisers that can’t heal. By the time farming BB’s happen the games are nearly always over and won.

Meaning WR is most precise stat.

[Bear__Necessities]

Just now, veslingr said:

Meaning WR is most precise stat.

Always has been as far as I’m concerned. Though PR for some ships can be a good indicator.

[Pikkozoikum]

2 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Big damage isn’t the biggest influence CV’s have. It’s where they put it. My Enterprise damage numbers are lower than a few others. Put I slam it into DD’s and cruisers that can’t heal. By the time farming BB’s happen the games are nearly always over and won.

Well, we need the relative damage stat. When I play Venezia, I go often fo DDs. That damage would be way more valuable, if it would be shown as relative dmg. Last game I destroyed 3 DDs almost alone ^^

[veslingr]

 

7 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

So, how much win% do you think carriers should have on average (let's say haku, mid and aud) to be considered overpowered or just good or something?

They should lead on WR table. At least one of then. 

[AndyHill]

Just now, veslingr said:

They should lead on WR table. At least one of then. 

Why would it matter if one of the carriers was op compared to the other carriers? This discussion is about all the carriers as a class, not just one of them. 

[veslingr]

2 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Well, we need the relative damage stat. When I play Venezia, I go often fo DDs. That damage would be way more valuable, if it would be shown as relative dmg. Last game I destroyed 3 DDs almost alone ^^

It is shown in game as EXP take account of % of dmg you do and not absolute. Also dmg that can be healed gives less exp. (Fire and flood)

 

 

I dont know why statspage do not use base exp but exp with some modifiers. 

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, veslingr said:

 

They should lead on WR table. At least one of then. 

 

Just now, AndyHill said:

Why would it matter if one of the carriers was op compared to the other carriers? This discussion is about all the carriers as a class, not just one of them. 

 

 

The winrate per ship type is pointless, because it balance itself out. For every x ships of one shiptype that win, you get x ship of that type that lose.

10 BBs vs 10 BBs = 50% WR

2 CVs vs 2 CVs = 50% WR

Per ship type won't show us anything, because there are nor uneven matches like 10 bbs vs 5 BBs and 5 CAs

 

Winrate for specific CVs makes no sense, especially in high tier, because they balance their statistic mostly out. You can have 10 Midway vs Haku, where Midway would win all matches, that would be 100% winrate. Midway is OP, more people play Midway and you get more Midway vs Midway matches, lets say 20 Midway vs Midway matches, you gain 20 wins and 20 loses for midway, the counter is now 30 wins to 20 loses. Midway ends up with 60% winrate, just by playing against a Midway.

And that is a overexaggerated example where Midway wins all matches against Haku.

[veslingr]

1 minute ago, AndyHill said:

Why would it matter if one of the carriers was op compared to the other carriers? This discussion is about all the carriers as a class, not just one of them. 

Problem is that CV across tiers do not top any relevant stat column. And stats of CV clearly shows that CVs do not disturbed balance of game overal. Not because of their poor ability but because of playerbase. 

 

Playerbase of CV is low and bad. Meaning that you will meet good enemie cv once per 50 or 100 games. 

 

That is to low number to disturbe overall balance of game. 

 

That's are infamous WG spreadsheets. They dont look at possibility of a ship but of what players in average can do with ship. 

[Pikkozoikum]

6 minutes ago, veslingr said:

It is shown in game as EXP take account of % of dmg you do and not absolute. Also dmg that can be healed gives less exp. (Fire and flood)

 

 

I dont know why statspage do not use base exp but exp with some modifiers. 

that's a good hint, but base Exp can't be used, because every ship type has his own modifier on their tasks. To get out the relative dmg there is not really possible. E.g. a BB gets more exp for the same amount of potential dmg, than a dd. A dd gets more exp for spotting, than a bb.