CV Rework Discussion

[CptBarney]

So, if i were to design some heavy cruiser with 35 bow and aft (hold on bois) with 230mm belt (kinda small belt) and with 180mm 4x3 turrets that are dual purpose, with like 30 other AA mounts how much con dps would it need to actually to create a literal no fly zone?

 

or just how much con dps would be needed for that in general?

[veslingr]

16 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

 

 

 

So you Admit that CVs are currently so Insanely Overpowered that you need a Triple Division to Beat a Single Random CV Player ? :)

 

Also. Actually its still Irrelevant because again. BOTH Teams have a CV..... So your Winrate is not Affected by how OP CVs are....

This would be truth if CVs toping the score....but we all know it is not the truth

[CptBarney]

@El2aZeR we found him!

 

see the guy talking about how he came up with the reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewurk.

[Sunleader]

5 minutes ago, veslingr said:

This would be truth if CVs toping the score....but we all know it is not the truth

 

Another Fallacy.

 

1.

We cannot See who Topped the Score in the Games you Played.

And your not Trustworthy enough that I would take your word for it.

 

So I.ll go with my Experience. In which CVs are almost Always at the Upper End of the Scoreboard.

And that is Despite CVs getting a 10-15% Penalty on their Total Earned Exp by Default after the last Update....

 

2.

Needless to say. That Topping the Scoreboard tells you pretty much nothing about who Won the Match.

Because the HE Spammer which has been doing nothing but sit behind the same Island for all Game and Dealing HE Damage to a Single BB which just kept Repairing said Damage back up again.

Earns you a Crabton of Experience. And thus Puts you really high on the Scoreboard. But really does next to nothing in terms of helping your Team win the Game....

 

 

 

I.ll Repeat myself here Mate.

CVs being Overpowered is not Affecting the Winrate of DDs.

Because there is an Overpowered CV in BOTH Teams by Default. And so both Teams get the exact same Problems and Chances.

 

 

[veslingr]

31 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Another Fallacy.

 

1.

We cannot See who Topped the Score in the Games you Played.

And your not Trustworthy enough that I would take your word for it.

 

So I.ll go with my Experience. In which CVs are almost Always at the Upper End of the Scoreboard.

And that is Despite CVs getting a 10-15% Penalty on their Total Earned Exp by Default after the last Update....

 

2.

Needless to say. That Topping the Scoreboard tells you pretty much nothing about who Won the Match.

Because the HE Spammer which has been doing nothing but sit behind the same Island for all Game and Dealing HE Damage to a Single BB which just kept Repairing said Damage back up again.

Earns you a Crabton of Experience. And thus Puts you really high on the Scoreboard. But really does next to nothing in terms of helping your Team win the Game....

 

 

 

I.ll Repeat myself here Mate.

CVs being Overpowered is not Affecting the Winrate of DDs.

Because there is an Overpowered CV in BOTH Teams by Default. And so both Teams get the exact same Problems and Chances.

 

 

Just look @ average performance of CVs on any tier except 4 and you will see that CV in general are not dooing great in any important stat.

i could pull you stats again, but in general i think we all know that statisticly CV does not show single OP thing.

 

Your main point is that my CV wins for me while i play DD and that is absurd...why does your cv dont win for you if it is all in hands of CV?

also ignoring average skill of CAPTAINS in ship is totaly wrong and that is what distords this discusion.

 

Cv (or any other OP ship) is only OP as captain in him is good or bad....and there are hord of bad CVs that do not infuelnce the game if you have any idea how to "play safe" agains him.

Most bad and even some good CV will leave you if you are "hard" target and will go farm dmg on some noob who actualy do nothing for team and that gives you oportunitiy to win game while their CV rapes uninportant target

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Rionnen_marksman]

2 hours ago, veslingr said:

This would be truth if CVs toping the score....but we all know it is not the truth

That’s not entirely true, the scores are skewed towards damage, cv’s can have huge impact whilst causing little damage.

[ForlornSailor]

1 hour ago, veslingr said:

Just look @ average performance of CVs on any tier except 4 and you will see that CV in general are not dooing great in any important stat. 

i could pull you stats again, but in general i think we all know that statisticly CV does not show single OP thing.

 

I hope you do understand what average means. Only because we have people like this: https://wows-numbers.com/de/ship/4179605488,Midway/?p=28

the avg stats of CVs look the way they are. One guy contributes 1400 avg damage per game and has played over 100 games... btw: Big E & Saipan top dmg dealers on T8 last week. So - come again?

 

4 minutes ago, Rionnen_marksman said:

That’s not entirely true, the scores are skewed towards damage, cv’s can have huge impact whilst causing little damage.

 

Also: each ship has own XP-modifier. WG just lowered XP for some CVs to make them appear more in line. Anyway. If someone argues about balance by using base XP, you can just ignore that guy. Its basically saying "I have no arguments but Ill still try this"

[HassenderZerhacker]

6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Also. Actually its still Irrelevant because again. BOTH Teams have a CV..... So your Winrate is not Affected by how OP CVs are....

being OP is not about having a higher winrate.

 

OP is because a team that has one good carrier player will win vs the team that hasn't - regardless if the other team has other outstanding players.

 

 

[HassenderZerhacker]

6 hours ago, CptBarney said:

@El2aZeR we found him!

 

see the guy talking about how he came up with the reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewurk.

 

this is purely cosmetic, brings nothing to gameplay

[Sunleader]

7 hours ago, veslingr said:

Just look @ average performance of CVs on any tier except 4 and you will see that CV in general are not dooing great in any important stat.

i could pull you stats again, but in general i think we all know that statisticly CV does not show single OP thing.

 

Your main point is that my CV wins for me while i play DD and that is absurd...why does your cv dont win for you if it is all in hands of CV?

also ignoring average skill of CAPTAINS in ship is totaly wrong and that is what distords this discusion.

 

Cv (or any other OP ship) is only OP as captain in him is good or bad....and there are hord of bad CVs that do not infuelnce the game if you have any idea how to "play safe" agains him.

Most bad and even some good CV will leave you if you are "hard" target and will go farm dmg on some noob who actualy do nothing for team and that gives you oportunitiy to win game while their CV rapes uninportant target

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

Its Hilarious how you just Refuse to Accept Reality....

 

1.

Average Performance is Irrelevant. After all you do not Judge a BBs Capabilities by the Noobs who just Drive Forward and then go Full Broadside to the First BB they see do you...

 

2.

What the Hell are you Talking about ??????

Throughout the last 6 Months. CVs have actually Shown on the General Statistics that they are Extremely Overpowered.

For Months Now CVs have been the absolutely Strongest Class in this Game in pretty much Everythung but Base Capture.

 

This is the Statistics for the Last 2 Months.

I have Marked down the Strongest in each Category for you by giving them Colors.

Red is BBs. Green is CVs. Blue is Cruisers. And Violet is DDs.

 

 

Notice Something ?

CVs are the Best in 9 out of 11 Categories in High Tiers. And in 8 out of 11 Categories in Low Tiers.

And Please note. CVs in Low Tiers are Beaten by BBs by about 100 Damage Points. Which is pretty much Nothing.

 

The only thing were CVs are not the absolute Best. Is in Tanking Damage which is because they Generally wont be Fired upon. AA Damage is not Accounted for.

And in Base Capture because they dont tend to be in Range of Enemy Ships.

In Literally everything else they are the Best.

And the Class which is actually Supposed to be the Best in that Field is Barely able to keep up in that one Field.

 

3.

Fallacy. Most of your Games are in Triple Division.

I cannot Guarantee a Good CV Player when I dont bring him Myself.

If I took any DD I want. And had El2azer make a Division with me. You can pretty much assume I would have good Winrates as well.

And that despite not being a DD Player at all.

 

4.

Sorry Man. But the Truth is in the Picture above.

You keep Repeating that Bullcrab about it only being an L2P Issue like a Mantra.

But the Facts are simply not Agreeing with you.

 

5.

The CV Considering you to be Worthless because your Hiding behind your Teammates and thus not bothering with Killing you because your no Threat and no Priority.

Is not a Countermeasure.

As a CV I dont Aim to Kill useless Noobs First. I Kill the People which pose a Threat to my Team.

A DD Hiding in between his BBs is a Hard Target. But he is completely Useless. So why would I kill someone who is basicly as valuable to the Enemy Team as an AFK Player ???

 

Nobody Says you cant Survive a CV in Random Battle.

You want to Survive thats easy. Just Turn 180 Degree at Spawn and Drive to your Teams Map Border.

No CV will Kill you there.

But thats not Counterplay. Thats just you being so Useless that Killing you is a waste of Time lol

 

 

2 hours ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

being OP is not about having a higher winrate.

 

OP is because a team that has one good carrier player will win vs the team that hasn't - regardless if the other team has other outstanding players.

 

 

 

Right now a Good CV is Effectively Worth as much as a Division of Good Players.

So if the Enemy has enough Outstanding Players they will still Win.

 

The Problem however is that Competent Players are Distributed as well.

And to Beat a Good CV you basicly need to have either 1 Full Division of Good Players more than the Enemy Team.

Or you need about 5 Competent Players more than the Enemy Team.

 

Even a CV cannot Carry a Team which cannot Hold a Line for 5 Minutes. A Good CV will in Average need about 5 Minutes to Neutralize a Competent Player alone.

If his Team cannot even Survive the Battle this Long than even the CV will not Win. And if the Enemy has 5 Competent Players while your Team only has a Competent CV. You will still lose because the CV can only Neutralize 3 of the 5 Competent Players while his Potatoes get Farmed up.

 

 

Therefore in a Sense Yes.

CVs right now are the most Game Deciding Factor. Especially in Random Battles. Because a Single Good CV is Worth so much that its actually rather Hard to Bridge the Gap.

But also in a Sense No. If you have 4 Noob DDs vs 4 Competent DDs for example. Even a Good CV will be Hard Pressed to Win.

[veslingr]

8 hours ago, Rionnen_marksman said:

That’s not entirely true, the scores are skewed towards damage, cv’s can have huge impact whilst causing little damage.

CV that spots and is not so playing right his ship. 

 

Only way low dmg is good if all are on dds

[veslingr]

8 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

I hope you do understand what average means. Only because we have people like this: https://wows-numbers.com/de/ship/4179605488,Midway/?p=28

the avg stats of CVs look the way they are. One guy contributes 1400 avg damage per game and has played over 100 games... btw: Big E & Saipan top dmg dealers on T8 last week. So - come again?

 

 

Also: each ship has own XP-modifier. WG just lowered XP for some CVs to make them appear more in line. Anyway. If someone argues about balance by using base XP, you can just ignore that guy. Its basically saying "I have no arguments but Ill still try this"

Last week :)  who was first yesterday? :)

[veslingr]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

Its Hilarious how you just Refuse to Accept Reality....

 

1.

Average Performance is Irrelevant. After all you do not Judge a BBs Capabilities by the Noobs who just Drive Forward and then go Full Broadside to the First BB they see do you...

 

2.

What the Hell are you Talking about ??????

Throughout the last 6 Months. CVs have actually Shown on the General Statistics that they are Extremely Overpowered.

For Months Now CVs have been the absolutely Strongest Class in this Game in pretty much Everythung but Base Capture.

 

This is the Statistics for the Last 2 Months.

I have Marked down the Strongest in each Category for you by giving them Colors.

Red is BBs. Green is CVs. Blue is Cruisers. And Violet is DDs.

 

 

Notice Something ?

CVs are the Best in 9 out of 11 Categories in High Tiers. And in 8 out of 11 Categories in Low Tiers.

And Please note. CVs in Low Tiers are Beaten by BBs by about 100 Damage Points. Which is pretty much Nothing.

 

The only thing were CVs are not the absolute Best. Is in Tanking Damage which is because they Generally wont be Fired upon. AA Damage is not Accounted for.

And in Base Capture because they dont tend to be in Range of Enemy Ships.

In Literally everything else they are the Best.

And the Class which is actually Supposed to be the Best in that Field is Barely able to keep up in that one Field.

 

3.

Fallacy. Most of your Games are in Triple Division.

I cannot Guarantee a Good CV Player when I dont bring him Myself.

If I took any DD I want. And had El2azer make a Division with me. You can pretty much assume I would have good Winrates as well.

And that despite not being a DD Player at all.

 

4.

Sorry Man. But the Truth is in the Picture above.

You keep Repeating that Bullcrab about it only being an L2P Issue like a Mantra.

But the Facts are simply not Agreeing with you.

 

5.

The CV Considering you to be Worthless because your Hiding behind your Teammates and thus not bothering with Killing you because your no Threat and no Priority.

Is not a Countermeasure.

As a CV I dont Aim to Kill useless Noobs First. I Kill the People which pose a Threat to my Team.

A DD Hiding in between his BBs is a Hard Target. But he is completely Useless. So why would I kill someone who is basicly as valuable to the Enemy Team as an AFK Player ???

 

Nobody Says you cant Survive a CV in Random Battle.

You want to Survive thats easy. Just Turn 180 Degree at Spawn and Drive to your Teams Map Border.

No CV will Kill you there.

But thats not Counterplay. Thats just you being so Useless that Killing you is a waste of Time lol

 

 

 

Right now a Good CV is Effectively Worth as much as a Division of Good Players.

So if the Enemy has enough Outstanding Players they will still Win.

 

The Problem however is that Competent Players are Distributed as well.

And to Beat a Good CV you basicly need to have either 1 Full Division of Good Players more than the Enemy Team.

Or you need about 5 Competent Players more than the Enemy Team.

 

Even a CV cannot Carry a Team which cannot Hold a Line for 5 Minutes. A Good CV will in Average need about 5 Minutes to Neutralize a Competent Player alone.

If his Team cannot even Survive the Battle this Long than even the CV will not Win. And if the Enemy has 5 Competent Players while your Team only has a Competent CV. You will still lose because the CV can only Neutralize 3 of the 5 Competent Players while his Potatoes get Farmed up.

 

 

Therefore in a Sense Yes.

CVs right now are the most Game Deciding Factor. Especially in Random Battles. Because a Single Good CV is Worth so much that its actually rather Hard to Bridge the Gap.

But also in a Sense No. If you have 4 Noob DDs vs 4 Competent DDs for example. Even a Good CV will be Hard Pressed to Win.

Single good cv is as rare as detonation. Not messing with overal game balance. 

[Rionnen_marksman]

1 hour ago, veslingr said:

CV that spots and is not so playing right his ship. 

 

Only way low dmg is good if all are on dds

Whilst that’s entirely true, it doesn’t however mean they’re not having a huge IMPACT on the game, forcing ships to turn broadside to friendly ships for example, forcing DCP, spotting, making DD’s turn away from objectives.

 

low damage = low exp score, that doesn’t necessarily translate to low impact.

[Sunleader]

2 hours ago, veslingr said:

Single good cv is as rare as detonation. Not messing with overal game balance. 

 

Except it does. Because 1 Good CV is worth 3 Good BBs

And this Translates down. An Average CV might not be Deciding Games Outcomes that often. But as you can See on the General Statistics. Even the Average CV will:

Do more Damage than the Average BB.

Do Twice as much Spotting as the Average DD.

Do Twice as much Defending and Support as the Average CA.

Do more Kills per Match than the Average of each other Class.

And also Destroy more Aircraft than any other Class does in Average.

 

And Please Note. The Average CV DOES ALL OF THIS AT ONCE.

1 Average CV effectively is worth as much as 1 Average DD + 1 Average CA + 1 Average BB

 

And this IS IN FACT messing with the Overall Game Balance.

Because Each of the other 3 Classes. Has Strong Points and Weak Points.

CVs however do not only BEAT each of the other 3 Classes in their Respective Strong Points. They also do not Possess any Weakpoints.

 

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

We should all just be grateful that the very good CV players are few and far between. That’s the best we can hope for. Good job on the rework WG...

[kfa]

13 hours ago, CptBarney said:

So, if i were to design some heavy cruiser with 35 bow and aft (hold on bois) with 230mm belt (kinda small belt) and with 180mm 4x3 turrets that are dual purpose, with like 30 other AA mounts how much con dps would it need to actually to create a literal no fly zone?

 

or just how much con dps would be needed for that in general?

Doesnt matter because i can slingshot any dive bombers into your ship while immune to AA or i can duck beneath the flak cloud with torp bombers and cancel the continuous DPS with a heal. 

But lets say you have infinite amount of AA. You are protected against rocket planes. Yay? 

[ForlornSailor]

2 hours ago, veslingr said:

Single good cv is as rare as detonation. Not messing with overal game balance. 

 

Honestly: Is that your argument for CVs beeing balanced? Thats basically waving the white flag, saying "yea its bad but its actually not so bad".

And the server stats are pointing towards a situation, where this isnt even true. CV damage is rising week by week. Because believe it or not, but ppl are still learning this class. Most ppl in other classes have long reached their skill wall. Not the case for CVs obviously.
 

[HaachamaShipping]

Yo, CV unicums of this game, I need your advise.

 

Given I need a T10 CV for the Puerto Rico grind, what would be the better investment? Audacious or Midway? Don't want to go for Hakuryu, but which of the remaining two is the better option to aim for?

[CptBarney]

19 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

Yo, CV unicums of this game, I need your advise.

 

Given I need a T10 CV for the Puerto Rico grind, what would be the better investment? Audacious or Midway? Don't want to go for Hakuryu, but which of the remaining two is the better option to aim for?

Midway shes more consistent and has better alpha, plus better regen rates. Haku would be good if your good enough with CV's due to AP bombs (good at deleting cruisers).

[Panocek]

21 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

Yo, CV unicums of this game, I need your advise.

 

Given I need a T10 CV for the Puerto Rico grind, what would be the better investment? Audacious or Midway? Don't want to go for Hakuryu, but which of the remaining two is the better option to aim for?

Get Haku.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Midway shes more consistent and has better alpha, plus better regen rates. Haku would be good if your good enough with CV's due to AP bombs (good at deleting cruisers).

Ok.

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Get Haku.

No.

[CptBarney]

2 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

Ok.

No.

Midway's focus is her bombers and i guess rockets to a degree, torps are alright but need a good amount of distance to allow them to not fly everywhere. Obviously slingshotting and shortening comes into play here.

You can use bombers for dd's so your not just stuck with rockets for that.

 

Although i heard audacious isn't that bad midway is just a better choice overall.

[Pikkozoikum]

6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Notice Something ?

WR and LR should be pointless in that case, for every CV that wins, you get CV that loses. Same of other ship types. So it balance at 50%. Guess it's not 50% because of hidden stats or something

Also Aircraft shot down is a useless stat. CVs will always face CVs, but other ship types won't always face CVs

Beside that, I would also assume, that many plane kills are pointless plane kills, when only a CV is left and the other CV starts wasting planes into the enemy CV - those sacrifaces make no difference to the match, just feeding the number

[veslingr]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

Except it does. Because 1 Good CV is worth 3 Good BBs

And this Translates down. An Average CV might not be Deciding Games Outcomes that often. But as you can See on the General Statistics. Even the Average CV will:

Do more Damage than the Average BB.

Do Twice as much Spotting as the Average DD.

Do Twice as much Defending and Support as the Average CA.

Do more Kills per Match than the Average of each other Class.

And also Destroy more Aircraft than any other Class does in Average.

 

And Please Note. The Average CV DOES ALL OF THIS AT ONCE.

1 Average CV effectively is worth as much as 1 Average DD + 1 Average CA + 1 Average BB

 

And this IS IN FACT messing with the Overall Game Balance.

Because Each of the other 3 Classes. Has Strong Points and Weak Points.

CVs however do not only BEAT each of the other 3 Classes in their Respective Strong Points. They also do not Possess any Weakpoints.

 

 

 

Problem is that there are no much good CV players so this is just in theory discussion now. That's my point all the way.