CV Rework Discussion

[Yedwy]

Well...

 

Enterprise is so strong they could just as well made it T10...

 

Kaga is a torp and bomb spamming, plane spawning DOT machine that basically doesnt care about losses and just keeps sending wave after wave of planes untill the target is dead...

 

Saipan has T10 planes, yes squads are smaller bit its still T10 planes...

 

Shokak has the sweetspot of DB accuracy vs speed and can cit anything as well as having great torps...

 

Meanwhile when you play a T8 you get XP bonuses for damaging higher tier and there are usually other T8 ships you can nuke in the match

[Aixin]

Vor 4 Minuten, Yedwy sagte:

Well...

 

Enterprise is so strong they could just as well made it T10...

 

Kaga is a torp and bomb spamming, plane spawning DOT machine that basically doesnt care about losses and just keeps sending wave after wave of planes untill the target is dead...

 

Saipan has T10 planes, yes squads are smaller bit its still T10 planes...

 

Shokak has the sweetspot of DB accuracy vs speed and can cit anything as well as having great torps...

 

Meanwhile when you play a T8 you get XP bonuses for damaging higher tier and there are usually other T8 ships you can nuke in the match

You misunderstood me. I am not talking about exp points. I am talking about game influence so more or less WR. I am able to pull a game arround in either shokaku Lexington or enterprise heck even with Graf. But I can't do the same with Haku or Midway. 

[veslingr]

26 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Many ships have smoke and hydro combo but yes hydro is handy as well

But none has smoke + radar + hydro....it is full deff and off combo....not to mention HE that RN line does not have

[Yedwy]

 

5 minutes ago, Karotte_marksman said:

You misunderstood me. I am not talking about exp points. I am talking about game influence so more or less WR. I am able to pull a game arround in either shokaku Lexington or enterprise heck even with Graf. But I can't do the same with Haku or Midway. 

A T10 battle? IDK I cant say I can offer you a reason that makes sence, the average plane respawn time might be shorter on T8 CVs but i dont see any other general advantage they could bring in apart from you maybe just beeing better accustomed to them

[DFens_666]

27 minutes ago, Karotte_marksman said:

Just one quick question.... Why are the T8 CVs way better then the T10 ones? I somehow suck epicly in T10 cvs. I have no idea why Cuz I even do good in T10 battles in my T8 CVs... 

 

Your stats suggest otherwise?

I wouldnt look at WR too much, because most of your CVs have less than 100 games, so you cant really tell how often you were lucky/unlucky with teams.

[Blixies]

12 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Shokak has the sweetspot of DB accuracy vs speed and can cit anything as well as having great torps...

Also it's rockets are deadly. You gotta be very accurate in using them (unlike US shotgun rockets).
Both Lexington and Shokaku are very close to Enterprise power levels in my (unpopular) opinion.

[Armorin]

1 hour ago, Karotte_marksman said:

You misunderstood me. I am not talking about exp points. I am talking about game influence so more or less WR. I am able to pull a game arround in either shokaku Lexington or enterprise heck even with Graf. But I can't do the same with Haku or Midway. 

 

 I find the same and wonder why I can't influence games as much in TX ships, when many of my T8 games have been against the same line up with TX ships anyway. I've got over 66%WR in Lexington, yet only 47% WR in Midway. I have over 100 battles in both.

Though gone are the days when I could fly into spawn and open up two strikes and set multiple fires on two ships. Now the planes will be eaten up by continuous dps after the first strike, and RNG says no to fires so I suppose they nerfed the fire chance at some point as well as increasing AA continuous dps. That was harder to pull off in the Midway than the Lexington due to the higher speed planes, although when pulled off in the Midway it would be an opening damage strike better than some people can do during the entire game. Would also have likely flown over a DD during the initial attack as well, getting a good idea of what ships starting positions where and where they where beginning to head to. Then I would send the dive bombers after the DD, but that now requires a lot more skill to get a decent hit then it used to.

I've also got over 58% WR in the Shokaku, with quite a few games in it after the AA buff, so its hard work with those flaky planes but can still pull out some good results. Not got the Haku yet.

The Brit CV's are the ugly ducklings, only just breaking 50% WR in Implacable. Not had many games in the Audacious yet, but that 42% WR is really bad and I've got to get used to putting much more lead on those parachute bomblets.

 

So why do I get so bad results at TX? Is it because the average silver line TX player is just better, and that the better T8 players are going out in premiums and being matched with other premium CV players more often? Perhaps a change in playstyle needed due to the higher speed planes? And perhaps T8 is where a lot of poorer CV players stop, because if you can't cope with TX AA in a T8 CV, a TX CV will not help you.

Personally I think TX just hates me. Probably need a decent division to help carry me and reduce the number of extremely poor players on the team. I know I'm not great at TX, but then most of the players on my team don't seem to be either. Divisions seem to be a necessity at that tier, and just hope you don't come up against a unicum one.

[Aixin]

Well but what can we do against it. Are TX just not as good by design or is it a matter of play style or skill. If that's the case has someone advice for me? 

[HassenderZerhacker]

is this the right thread for saying I don't like airplanes?

they just come and drop their stuff. makes this game too frustrating.

[BLUB__BLUB]

27 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

is this the right thread for saying I don't like airplanes?

they just come and drop their stuff. makes this game too frustrating.

It is the correct place. But he main problem: you are still in T4. T4 ships cannot do a thing about CV.

WG has buffed the T4 IJN CV a bit too much. I bet you see lots of Hosho. They are sort of OP.

So you usually get 3 per side, most of them Hosho. 

 

That will be gone in T6... you rarely get double CV per side, sometimes even none. 

But they'll still drop on you with ease, if they are half-what-good. 

The thing is the ones that suck will not cut it, they'll give up at T6, too much credit loss.

However what you get is Potato-CV vs Unicum-CV, better hope you do not have the potato. 

 

[mcboernester]

Since i played from the other side right now -> that guy (hakuryu) tried to focus my daring for 6-7minutes in a row. i couldnt do crap since i couldnt get in torprange to anything and he couldnt kill me either. We won and i did a staggering 11k dmg and 1cap , leading up to a 30k credits loss. Man its so much fun when you are getting focused by the cv!  Just another Issue that wasnt there last year, a ship like smolensk parking beside would have just got rid of the planes before they could drop, left alone rocket fighters didnt exist. 

[Ronchabale]

I am struggling with DD play at higher tiers, if there is a CV in the game and he has a slight idea of how to play I am in trouble.

Up to tier 6-7 it is possible to deal with

 

[DarkPhariah]

13 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

I am struggling with DD play at higher tiers, if there is a CV in the game and he has a slight idea of how to play I am in trouble.

Up to tier 6-7 it is possible to deal with

 

well after the carrier rework i switched my fletcher to grozovoi ..

 

last battles with grozovoi, i sunk midway and shokaku (and 3 other ships) .. but u have to stay lucky with those cvs :)

 

Cheers!

[El2aZeR]

8 minutes ago, DarkPhariah said:

well after the carrier rework i switched my fletcher to grozovoi

 

This is funny because Fletcher has pretty much the same AA as Grozovoi nowadays.

Aka they're both terrible.

[mcboernester]

Also: WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

[HassenderZerhacker]

3 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

It is the correct place. But he main problem: you are still in T4. T4 ships cannot do a thing about CV.

WG has buffed the T4 IJN CV a bit too much. I bet you see lots of Hosho. They are sort of OP.

So you usually get 3 per side, most of them Hosho. 

 

That will be gone in T6... you rarely get double CV per side, sometimes even none. 

But they'll still drop on you with ease, if they are half-what-good. 

The thing is the ones that suck will not cut it, they'll give up at T6, too much credit loss.

However what you get is Potato-CV vs Unicum-CV, better hope you do not have the potato.

I see more Langleys than Hoshos.

I also see them at T3 - so I believe I can complain about OP carriers at T4...

Is that a way to tell that tier 3 and tier 4 should not be played?

Today I played at T4 with 3 carriers each side. 2 carriers seemed to be the norm.

[Armorin]

The solution to reducing individual CV players influence appears to be to have 2 of them on each team.

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

7 hours ago, Armorin said:

 

 I find the same and wonder why I can't influence games as much in TX ships, when many of my T8 games have been against the same line up with TX ships anyway. I've got over 66%WR in Lexington, yet only 47% WR in Midway. I have over 100 battles in both.

Though gone are the days when I could fly into spawn and open up two strikes and set multiple fires on two ships. Now the planes will be eaten up by continuous dps after the first strike, and RNG says no to fires so I suppose they nerfed the fire chance at some point as well as increasing AA continuous dps. That was harder to pull off in the Midway than the Lexington due to the higher speed planes, although when pulled off in the Midway it would be an opening damage strike better than some people can do during the entire game. Would also have likely flown over a DD during the initial attack as well, getting a good idea of what ships starting positions where and where they where beginning to head to. Then I would send the dive bombers after the DD, but that now requires a lot more skill to get a decent hit then it used to.

I've also got over 58% WR in the Shokaku, with quite a few games in it after the AA buff, so its hard work with those flaky planes but can still pull out some good results. Not got the Haku yet.

The Brit CV's are the ugly ducklings, only just breaking 50% WR in Implacable. Not had many games in the Audacious yet, but that 42% WR is really bad and I've got to get used to putting much more lead on those parachute bomblets.

 

So why do I get so bad results at TX? Is it because the average silver line TX player is just better, and that the better T8 players are going out in premiums and being matched with other premium CV players more often? Perhaps a change in playstyle needed due to the higher speed planes? And perhaps T8 is where a lot of poorer CV players stop, because if you can't cope with TX AA in a T8 CV, a TX CV will not help you.

Personally I think TX just hates me. Probably need a decent division to help carry me and reduce the number of extremely poor players on the team. I know I'm not great at TX, but then most of the players on my team don't seem to be either. Divisions seem to be a necessity at that tier, and just hope you don't come up against a unicum one.

Guess it has something to with the new match maker, where you get less uptiered matches and the change of the HP pools of the planes. T8 are now closer to the T10s

Play T8 or T10 CV in a T10 match is not that much of a difference like it was before. But playing T8 in a T6 match is something completly different

 

[Armorin]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Guess it has something to with the new match maker, where you get less uptiered matches and the change of the HP pools of the planes. T8 are now closer to the T10s

Play T8 or T10 CV in a T10 match is not that much of a difference like it was before. But playing T8 in a T6 match is something completly different

 

But most of my CV games where done before the match maker changes. I only play them to do directives/missions now, and maybe for naval battles. Otherwise their is very little reason to play them now and git gud in them as they are not allowed in clan battles. Even KoTS doesn't allow them now, but I'm far from the skill level required to play in that.

I can actually boost my PR now by not playing them, unless I go out in the T4's. 

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, Armorin said:

 

But most of my CV games where done before the match maker changes. I only play them to do directives/missions now, and maybe for naval battles. Otherwise their is very little reason to play them now and git gud in them as they are not allowed in clan battles. Even KoTS doesn't allow them now, but I'm far from the skill level required to play in that.

I can actually boost my PR now by not playing them, unless I go out in the T4's. 

Hmm, even before the Sector AA Change? That was, when they changed the HP Pools, guess that has the most impact. Don't know which patch 8.6 or 8.7

[Armorin]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Hmm, even before the Sector AA Change? That was, when they changed the HP Pools, guess that has the most impact. Don't know which patch 8.6 or 8.7

 

Yep, most of them was before that.

[Pikkozoikum]

27 minutes ago, Armorin said:

 

Yep, most of them was before that.

Hmm, that's weird

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 hours ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

I see more Langleys than Hoshos.

I also see them at T3 - so I believe I can complain about OP carriers at T4...

Is that a way to tell that tier 3 and tier 4 should not be played?

Today I played at T4 with 3 carriers each side. 2 carriers seemed to be the norm.

Carriers start at T4, and then T6-T8-T10. There are no 123-5-7-9.

T1-2-3-4 gets plus or minus 1. Means if you take a T3, you can get T4 but also can get T2 match. 

If you get T4 match - you can get carriers. Usual there is 2, sometimes 3. There can NOT be more than 3... 

 

The problem is there is absolutely non AA at T4, it is really pathetic. Ships have little-to-nothing for defence

I play carriers and I like them, but playing T4 when you have experience is kinda filthy. Kinda weird you see Langley more than Hosho.

Or maybe the players do not know that with the buff Hosho got TWO torps instead of just one. That makes it even more overpowered. 

Anyway I think yes you have reason to complain. 

 

From T5 you can get +2 matchmaking, means you see T6 but also T7. 

If you take a T6 you can see T 5 (not T4), T7 and T8. And so on. 

 

[DrMechano]

One of the other problems is that their natural enemy, DDs, even if they DO manage to sneak up on them have spotting from air being a problem and then this is followed up by the constant spam of planes. in the RTS CV days the CV had a fairly sizeable cooldown on getting flights into the air. This means that if a DD gets spotted they're under a constant barrage of rocket planes. Not only that but high tier carriers are surprisingly quick, some able to keep pace with DDs which means that you're unlikely to catch them once they're moving away from you, forcing you to spam your guns which means your spotted which means that CVs can just keep sending wave after wave of rocket planes at you.

[El2aZeR]

When you're about to kill the entire enemy team but RNGesus says no and lets the last one survive on a sliver of health. T_T

Spoiler

 

Is ofc all perfectly balans.