CV Rework Discussion

[CptBarney]

32 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

There is people using 0 key and other people who Don't. People who knows how to arrange their captains skill for AA, people who knows how to evade air attacks. 

So one guy can be executed and the other one won't get a scratch.

 

Execute bad players, i can do that in a JB or a Yamato way easier (just 1 fkg salvo and boom), and you Don't call them OP. I Don't feel you are objective on this subject, that's just pure CV hate. 

 

@El2aZeR

come on dude if you want to troll, try Something better than this.

No AA is useless, the only type of AA thats useful is con dps AA the AA that you don't see (so basically no-flak AA), Dodging flak isn't as hard as some peeps make it out just takes time to learn the rythme (how ever you spell it).

 

Bad CV players will fly into flak good ones won't and can strike you repeatedly with the same squad.

 

And even then its useless because con dps AA doesn't kill planes fast enough to make any good carrier player think. Besides blobbing up theres not much you can do since you can just slingshot past or towards ships and blobs.

[El2aZeR]

20 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

why this 40k average so … ?

 

Because most CV players are shockingly incompetent to the point where even going above 10k damage is a struggle for them.

I've recently watched this happen:

 

This ladies and gents is the average CV player.

 

That says absolutely nothing about the effectiveness of CVs however. And why "our" reality is important and everyone else's isn't, since "we" can play the class to its potential and not be complete failures at it. No game has ever been balanced under the assumption that the user is incompetent and for good reason.

Also calling us "unicum CV haters" LOL. Since we're performing so well with the class one would think we'd have even more reason to keep CVs as they are so we can continue dominating.

Thankfully most of us have more integrity than that.

[Saltface]

8 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

Turn broadside to a Yamato, even faster, not OP, OS is just legit … Sure … 

Here is the answer to what you said

... turn broadside? Uhmm...since when this is a metric for quality? I thought broadside was equal to bending over for the soap.

What everybody is telling you here is that there is no counter (AA or no AA) to CVs. You want to understand this? good. You don't want? good again.

 

[Rionnen_marksman]

look about 10-11 mins in when i go for the bismark in my t6 cv.

 

and no, i am FAR from a good cv player (as demonstrated by some very crappy play in this lol)

20191112_221637_PBSA106-Furious_16_OC_bees_to_honey.wowsreplay

[mcboernester]

46 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

This ladies and gents is the average CV player.

 

The Fact he doesnt scroll out makes me feel highly uncomfortable...

[CptBarney]

Just now, mcboernester said:

The Fact he doesnt scroll out makes me feel highly uncomfortable...

the fecking title as well.

 

guess he accidently the game as well.

[BLUB__BLUB]

35 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

CV are OP, AR is such a threat it could fight tier X etc … why this 40k average so … ? I suppose i will never have an answer on this.

On the 40K average? You want the answer why that is the current fact?

 

Because it depends on DoT, largely. Alpha is only on the torps and rockets but it's not that big. So:

- When you set fire (RNG, fly-out-time, etc), the ship uses DCP;

- by the time you get back (slow planes) somebody else has already set 3 fires, no chance for you;

- then you happen to set 3 perma-fires, you go "oh goody here comes 30k" and then your teammates kill the ship 

Same goes for flooding. And then I get 5-7 minute ROFLSTOMP games. In a 15-20 min game I'll do 80K, usually.

So that 40k average is more the length of games than the actual damage potential. 

 

I can do MUCH MORE damage with Furious, except it has only 2 torps, and less HE-bombers.

But with Furious I can come back and hit the ship again, set the perma-fire (flood), before my teammates do it/kill it.

 

Why Ark Royal is OP - because those 3 torps are actually hard to get all three on target. 

Most potatoes can't do it. They are also sort of avoidable, because the planes are slow. 

In Furious... any ship will eat the torps. No misses. And then there's the HE-carpetbombers, AR has better ones as well. 

It means you can hit less ships... not because it is difficult, but because the planes are slow. And those that you hit, will suffer harder.

 

Why do you think I have almost 25% more on Ryujo... it is because AP bombs. 

The chance for them to hit a citadel is ~similar to the chance for Ark Royal (or Furious, or...) to set a fire. 

That fire has to burn out, largely, to get the same DMG. But it will usually not burn all the way. 

Note that I haven't got that many games in Ryujo... and same 5-7 minute games.

 

The only thing holding back Ark Royal from doing 200k is plane speed. Can't whack them any faster.

One day I'm gonna find myself in  a slow (losing?) lemmingtrain coming towards me... and I'll do that 200k. 

 

I could have done far more in that T9 if the game had lasted longer. 

Imagine Ark Royal being a BB, with 2.5km concealment, and just one large gun, reload 1.5 minutes.

It shoots with 100% accuracy, and if it hits = guaranteed fire. If the reds come closer, reload time gets reduced...

How much damage could you do? And would that be OP? 

 

 

[mcboernester]

Meanwhile im trying to work on my Yoinking

 

And on getting reported for evil chat behavior

[MrBourpif]

Man i Don't have time to answer all this.

 

Just my point : Cv is no more OP than a Yamato for exemple, difference is made by players. 

All this hate about Cv is because Cv can pick you across the map where you thought you were safe. People don't like that. They love to hide, so They feel exposed and frustrated

 

But objectively i prefer to be exposed to a Midway than to a Yamato. With Yamato no time to correct my positionning, punition is quick and definitive. if Midway can double it's attack it's bad  , but not definitive and i'm quiet for a few minutes. 

 

All this hate about CV and OP thing is completly subjective. CV can't b considered OP especially because of their ridiculous alpha. 8 min game any regular player can make 120k in a Yam, 40K in a Midway lol. 

 

[Rionnen_marksman]

5 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

Man i Don't have time to answer all this.

 

Just my point : Cv is no more OP than a Yamato for exemple, difference is made by players. 

All this hate about Cv is because Cv can pick you across the map where you thought you were safe. People don't like that. They feel exposed. 

 

But objectively i prefer to be exposed to a Midway than to a Yamato. With Yamato no time to correct my positionning, punition is quick and definitive. if Midway can double it's attack it's bad  , but not definitive and i'm quiet for a few minutes. 

 

All this hate about CV and OP thing is completly subjective. CV can't b considered OP especially because of their ridiculous alpha. 8 min game any regular player can make 120k in a Yam, 40K in a Midway lol. 

 

Average damage in Yamato is 84k.

 

only average damage in Yamato for top 5% of players is 124k.

[MrBourpif]

Il y a 2 minutes, Rionnen_marksman a dit :

Average damage in Yamato is 84k.

 

only average damage in Yamato for top 5% of players is 124k.

I'm not talking about average, but about Alpha. CV Alpha is really bad and result is Cv class suffers more on short games. A BB can save the game with 1 or 2 good salvos on a collapsing team. A CV can't. Any other ship will eat the cake before you can open your mouth.

[BLUB__BLUB]

9 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

I'm not talking about average, but about Alpha. CV Alpha is really bad and result is Cv class suffers more on short games. A BB can save the game with 1 or 2 good salvos on a collapsing team. A CV can't. Any other ship will eat the cake before you can open your mouth.

There's a point in that. However I'm quite sure I can, with AP bombs. 

And the thing is, unlike a Yamato I can't be punished. Also, unlike a Yamato, I can't be counterplayed.

I'll be miles away from the victim. Perhaps that is the most frustrating. 

[MrBourpif]

Il y a 3 minutes, BLUB__BLUB a dit :

There's a point in that. However I'm quite sure I can, with AP bombs. 

And the thing is, unlike a Yamato I can't be punished. Also, unlike a Yamato, I can't be counterplayed.

I'll be miles away from the victim. Perhaps that is the most frustrating. 

On the other hand, the farther you are the lower is the damage you can do. 

[Bear__Necessities]

3 hours ago, MrBourpif said:

I can show this kinda of funny picture too, game with close to 100K damage and Bismarck kills. And I can show you a Bismarck with a guy who know how to play AA vaporizing my entire squads. 

Where is the Truth ? AR Average damage is close to 40K : THIS IS NOT OP ! If you do this all games (80K damage Killing Tier VIII one hand), you are not the rule, you are the exception. 

Average damage is closer to 40k coz bad players lower the number. Not hard to work that out...

[Bear__Necessities]

2 hours ago, MrBourpif said:

Just another CV hater nonsense festival

All of us who have pointed out your BS are better CV players than you could ever hope to be.

[mcboernester]

23 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

I'm not talking about average, but about Alpha. CV Alpha is really bad and result is Cv class suffers more on short games. A BB can save the game with 1 or 2 good salvos on a collapsing team. A CV can't. Any other ship will eat the cake before you can open your mouth.

Sorry is this supposed to be an argument for or against cv? Cause you know there's this stuff called angling, positioning and dodging to avoid getting blepped in 1 Salvo. Which you cannot do against a CV since he neither cares where you are, what angle you have or even if you are on the other side of the map. If a BB sails all alone the CV will eat it alive in maybe 3 minutes which is around the same amount of time you needed with old CVs to setup a full strike.

 

Old CV Alpha was very high but it was also tricky to bring it in since you had to watch out for AA Monsters and the enemy CV. So high risk -> high reward. Nowadays you can just pump out DPS since the Counterplay is missing and if you lose planes -> who cares, they will just regenerate. Also BBs wont achieve 100k+++ spotting dmg on a regular basis. 

[siraiaw]

3 minutes ago, mcboernester said:

Sorry is this supposed to be an argument for or against cv? Cause you know there's this stuff called angling, positioning and dodging to avoid getting blepped in 1 Salvo. Which you cannot do against a CV since he neither cares where you are, what angle you have or even if you are on the other side of the map. If a BB sails all alone the CV will eat it alive in maybe 3 minutes which is around the same amount of time you needed with old CVs to setup a full strike.

 

Old CV Alpha was very high but it was also tricky to bring it in since you had to watch out for AA Monsters and the enemy CV. So high risk -> high reward. Nowadays you can just pump out DPS since the Counterplay is missing and if you lose planes -> who cares, they will just regenerate. Also BBs wont achieve 100k+++ spotting dmg on a regular basis. 

i care when i loose planes in my Saipan

[BLUB__BLUB]

16 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

On the other hand, the farther you are the lower is the damage you can do. 

Well, that's true in both cases, but for different reasons. 

WIth Yamato it is because of dispersion, for the CV it is "slow shells" and they'll still hit just as hard.

 

12 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

All of us who have pointed out your BS are better CV players than you could ever hope to be.

Not really  I am at the same average. Also, not everything he says is BS. 

It is also a matter of what you'd consider "OP". As in, take Smolensk, give it 100% fire-chance and a range of 30km. 

Then give it a reload of 2 minutes. OP or not? 

[mcboernester]

19 minutes ago, siraiaw said:

i care when i loose planes in my Saipan

Eh, so so. Would take a Buff but i dont think its neccessary 

[MrBourpif]

@Bear_Necessities

 

I say all OP CV thing is completly subjective hysteria and that's not BS. 

 

If they are better CV players than me it proves my point, they are not representative to give their feeling. OP ship is OP even with average players. Not the case with CVs

 

[Bear__Necessities]

30 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

@Bear_Necessities

 

I say all OP CV thing is completly subjective hysteria and that's not BS. 

 

If they are better CV players than me it proves my point, they are not representative to give their feeling. OP ship is OP even with average players. Not the case with CVs

 

I don’t think you know what OP means...

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Stunde, MrBourpif sagte:

@Bear_Necessities

 

I say all OP CV thing is completly subjective hysteria and that's not BS. 

 

If they are better CV players than me it proves my point, they are not representative to give their feeling. OP ship is OP even with average players. Not the case with CVs

 

CV play is certainly not as easy as some make it out to be. Only if we keep the kind of people in this comparison who don't even know how their phones can be set up beyond the default settings..... 

And you won't believe how many people there are who can't even do the simplest of things or show any kind of interest in them. 

Do you expect such people to over perform in an OP class? 

Noone cares for these people nor should they. Because the data they provide kills the results. If we take let's say half of the lowest performing players away from CV's you would easily notice in the stats how OP the class is. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, MrBourpif said:

OP ship is OP even with average players. Not the case with CVs

Not really. An OP ship is whatever ship that over-performs.

There are many such ships. It doe NOT mean the ship overperforms even with potato players.

In fact, the opposite may be the case. Ask @Saltface about his Kamikaze-R.

Before he was any good, it was a disaster. Now he just casually kills the whole team. 

 

An OP ship is like putting a 1500HP Musclecar amongst family cars. 

Yes a random potato would probably crash it against the first tree... but it's still a lot more powerful.

 

1 hour ago, Bear_Necessities said:

I don’t think you know what OP means...

Apparently.

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

3 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Why Ark Royal is OP - because those 3 torps are actually hard to get all three on target. 

Most potatoes can't do it. They are also sort of avoidable, because the planes are slow. 

In Furious... any ship will eat the torps. No misses. And then there's the HE-carpetbombers, AR has better ones as well. 

It means you can hit less ships... not because it is difficult, but because the planes are slow. And those that you hit, will suffer harder.

Planes are faster than a ship and more maneuverable than a ship. The torps can be dropped from pretty much point-blank on both CVs and have the same speed. If your torps miss more often, then it is because the approach is bad, which just means more effort has to be put into how to approach a target. On proper approach, it's not like you are going to dodge either of the two CVs' drops.

 

Ark Royal is harder to play than Furious because of the bad plane speed requiring proper planning in whom and how to approach to get your impact. Properly executed, it's a splendid ship though.

 

 

[MrBourpif]

Il y a 44 minutes, Sleepy_Bunny a dit :

Ark Royal is harder to play than Furious because of the bad plane speed requiring proper planning in whom and how to approach to get your impact. Properly executed, it's a splendid ship though.

Totally agree ! But the fact she is more difficult to handle makes her less effective, because no mistake is allowed. and sometimes possible attack vectors are saturated with AA