CV Rework Discussion

[siraiaw]

what cv would be considered the most ballanced cv?

[Capra76]

2 minutes ago, siraiaw said:

what cv would be considered the most ballanced cv?

 

None, the game design is faulty, the class is inherently unbalancable.

[MrBourpif]

Il y a 38 minutes, siraiaw a dit :

what cv would be considered the most ballanced cv?

They are all balanced when playing same tier or +1 ships. When playing +2 they are completly useless. More than the regular ships. 

It's like when shooting with a BB a magic hand could intercept all your shells. 

 

Better solution was to make aiming harder with AA than Killing all planes. Which is really stupid. Especially for an rng based feature. 

[siraiaw]

30 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

None, the game design is faulty, the class is inherently unbalancable.

comparatively i meant

[Blixies]

31 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

They are all balanced when playing same tier or +1 ships. When playing +2 they are completly useless. More than the regular ships. 

It's like when shooting with a BB a magic hand could intercept all your shells. 

 

Better solution was to make aiming harder with AA than Killing all planes. Which is really stupid. Especially for an rng based feature. 

 

[MrBourpif]

Maybe you could write a few words to clarify your arguments ? If i get your point, just try to attack a single isolated Bismarck with a tier VI CV.

You know what happens ? Nothing happens cause all planes are dead before you can even launch a single torp.

 

Even a poor Aoba can start a fire on Bismarck cause her shells are not intercepted in the air.

[Blixies]

2 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

Maybe you could write a few words to clarify your arguments ? 

Sure, since you asked so nicely.
My argument is that all CVs (apart from a few exceptions) are overpowered as hell when they are top tier. They can mostly strike anyone with impunity. If a top tier CV wants you dead, you are dead sooner or later (mostly sooner).
When a CV is uptiered it still has the potential to carry a game and certainly is able to bully DDs, sink singled out ships and spot for his team as much as he likes.

Badly played CV will do badly in an uptiered enviroment, but that is nothing a good and knowledgeable CV captain can't fix.

Just compare my stats in tier 8 CVs with my other tier 8 ships - they all get uptiered most of the time, regardless of class.
Or better yet, look up some better CV captains, they can win a vast majority of their games, regardless of tiers.

There is no counter to a CV, unless you form a massive blob (and this tactic does not win games, most of the time).
I have sunk so many "AA-powerhouse  Cruisers" like DM, Woostah, Moskva in my Shokaku and Enterprise it's not even funny.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 hour ago, siraiaw said:

what cv would be considered the most ballanced cv?

Most balanced? British CV. Actually balanced? None. Every CV can just crap on your ship, British are just the ones that take the longest.

3 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

Maybe you could write a few words to clarify your arguments ? 

Given only T6 CVs and T8 CVs can get into +2, let's look at these cases.

 

Provided a player that actually knows what the hell they are doing,

T6 vs T8 will encounter actual AA that will kill a good few planes, if we consider BBs. Cruisers are no scarier than the BBs and DDs are still a joke. T8 DDs basically aren't more scary to attack than a T6 BB in AA power except maybe the Kidd, which manages to be like T7 BB. Typically, T6 CV in T8 match will not be as free to kill everything, but they still can very much crap on DDs and cruisers and with BBs just have to actually think about what they attack. When they do, they absolutely ruin their day though. On the flipside, when top tier, T6 CVs have an absolute field day roflstomping T5s and T6s, because apart from very few BBs, the rest of the ships are a joke AA wise and you can basically just murder everything in your way.

T8 vs T10... It should suffice to say that the AA increase from T8 to T10 is not very much and it isn't incredibly much harder to kill a Montana than it is to kill an NC, except for the larger amount of hp you have to go through. But T8 CVs that can deal perfectly fine with T8s have no trouble dealing with T10s and even people who are just remotely competent at the basics of flak dodging can do numbers on T10 ships, especially when given tools like AP bombs. Obviously T8 CV vs T6 ships is an absolute curbstomp.

 

Meanwhile, a terrible CV will fail even against -2, as long as that ship has just any form of idiot filter flak buffs.

 

 

[MrBourpif]

As an exemple, Premium Ark Royal tier VI  average damage is … 40k ! 

You call this OP ? I can do better in a tier IV CV lol. Actually i can do better in any tier VI ship. 

 

As i told , (but you didn't read), And that's funny historically speaking, an Ark Royal tier VI squad can't even approach a Bismarck.

Cv damage is very low, planes are papermade and playing +2 is just a joke. It's like playing with a Phalanx system shooting down your shells.

 

If you have so much trouble with CV either you are lying to protect your own interests as a DD player (for exemple) or you are a terrible player.

That's giving your dog a bad name to drown him. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blixies]

1 hour ago, MrBourpif said:

 If i get your point, just try to attack a single isolated Bismarck with a tier VI CV.

I have tried many times, and I have succeeded. Any tier 6 CV can make a torpedo run on a lonely Bismarck. You will lose planes, yes, but you also have enough time to release the fish and hit the BB.

With a full squad of bombs, you can slingshot one attack as well. With rockets, you can boost through the AA and make a strike happen as well.

Are you sure you are not playing the "catch the black clouds" minigame?

[MrBourpif]

Il y a 6 minutes, Blixies a dit :

I have tried many times, and I have succeeded. Any tier 6 CV can make a torpedo run on a lonely Bismarck. You will lose planes, yes, but you also have enough time to release the fish and hit the BB.

With a full squad of bombs, you can slingshot one attack as well. With rockets, you can boost through the AA and make a strike happen as well.

Are you sure you are not playing the "catch the black clouds" minigame?

Oh yeah i succeeded only when i had a moutain conveniently located to hide. Or the target was completly wrecked already. In every other situations he juste smiled and i died.

Most of players know how to use AA properly now. With -2 tier it's just OP

[CptBarney]

10 minutes ago, Blixies said:

I have tried many times, and I have succeeded. Any tier 6 CV can make a torpedo run on a lonely Bismarck. You will lose planes, yes, but you also have enough time to release the fish and hit the BB.

With a full squad of bombs, you can slingshot one attack as well. With rockets, you can boost through the AA and make a strike happen as well.

Are you sure you are not playing the "catch the black clouds" minigame?

Best to use rocket and/or bombs to soften its AA up as much as possible making torp runs somewhat easier.

 

Oh and hope your team isn't so gud and the enemy so bad that racking up decent damage becomes very difficult.

 

Remember getting a kraken with ryujo bottom tier and taking out 2 tier 8's ironically one of them was a bismarck the other a mogami i think, plus a colorado and two dd's.

[MrBourpif]

Il y a 6 minutes, CptBarney a dit :

Best to use rocket and/or bombs to soften its AA up as much as possible making torp runs somewhat easier.

 

Oh and hope your team isn't so gud and the enemy so bad that racking up decent damage becomes very difficult.

 

Remember getting a kraken with ryujo bottom tier and taking out 2 tier 8's ironically one of them was a bismarck the other a mogami i think, plus a colorado and two dd's.

Cool, but one swallow doesn't make a summer.  I performed a 100K damage game with my Ark, but most of time games are so quick i barely score 35K

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, MrBourpif said:

Cool, but a swallow doesn't make a summer.  I performed a 100K damage game with my Ark, but most of time games are so quick i barely score 35K

I dont get the first part, but i understand the second and have been having lots of 80-95k damage games in midway (trying to avg 120k feck knows how @Yoshanai does it doe).

 

My avg damage atm is not much better than lexi but lots of game are ending quick recently.

[MrBourpif]

Il y a 4 minutes, CptBarney a dit :

I dont get the first part, but i understand the second and have been having lots of 80-95k damage games in midway (trying to avg 120k feck knows how @Yoshanai does it doe).

 

My avg damage atm is not much better than lexi but lots of game are ending quick recently.

Means a single fact doesn't make a rule. 

I performed huge scores sometimes, but the average games are really low. Cv lack of alpha is a real problem in FFA. Most of my best damage perf are on lost games. Cause i had all targets just for me, just before they kill me 

[Rionnen_marksman]

I wonder, what would happen if they increased Alpha of higher tier CV’s (but lowered fire/flood chance) and brought back “no fly zone” ships? 

[1MajorKoenig]

Just now, Rionnen_marksman said:

I wonder, what would happen if they increased Alpha of higher tier CV’s (but lowered fire/flood chance) and brought back “no fly zone” ships? 

 

It would increase the spread between good and bad CV players. 

[Rionnen_marksman]

Just now, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

It would increase the spread between good and bad CV players. 

Be fair, the only thing that wouldn’t do that would be to remove them. 😂

 

i play and enjoy all the types of ships, but I wouldn’t cry if CV’s were removed tbh. I’d rather have a better balanced game if they can’t figure it out.

[Capra76]

28 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

Cool, but one swallow doesn't make a summer.  I performed a 100K damage game with my Ark, but most of time games are so quick i barely score 35K

 

Best thing I can suggest is for you to open a training room and work on flak evasion, once you can do that properly plane losses can be minimised.

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, MrBourpif said:

Means a single fact doesn't make a rule. 

I performed huge scores sometimes, but the average games are really low. Cv lack of alpha is a real problem in FFA. Most of my best damage perf are on lost games. Cause i had all targets just for me, just before they kill me 

Well its sound advice regardless. Especially when your not using other plane types you can use them and target superstructures on B's and weaken their overall AA potential.

 

I perform kinda consistently but not doing enough damage in general to break 100k consistently. I've had my biggest games in losses, but not always cus im the last one left but because my team basically did what the enemies did in my recent matches not cap or push even when they could quite easily.

 

oh and 3 yamatoes and 2 alscaes suiciding around D cap one by one plus a GFK is always a good idea.

[MrBourpif]

Il y a 19 minutes, Rionnen_marksman a dit :

Be fair, the only thing that wouldn’t do that would be to remove them. 😂

 

i play and enjoy all the types of ships, but I wouldn’t cry if CV’s were removed tbh. I’d rather have a better balanced game if they can’t figure it out.

I wouldn't cry if you were removed from game either. You and guys constantly whinning about OP CVs. No offense ! 

Actually, only OP CV i know, is Hosho at tier IV, every torp hits, big damage and it's citadel fair with AP bombs. And protected MM makes her a really OP CV.

there is no others !

[Rionnen_marksman]

25 minutes ago, MrBourpif said:

I wouldn't cry if you were removed from game either. You and guys constantly whinning about OP CVs. No offense ! 

Actually, only OP CV i know, is Hosho at tier IV, every torp hits, big damage and it's citadel fair with AP bombs. And protected MM makes her a really OP CV.

there is no others !

Go play above t4, you will change your mind. Watch some of @El2aZeR YouTube vids.

[MrBourpif]

Il y a 1 heure, Rionnen_marksman a dit :

Go play above t4, you will change your mind. Watch some of @El2aZeR YouTube vids.

I sincerely doubt that. I'm not as new on game that you seems to Believe.

[BLUB__BLUB]

6 hours ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

"Ideal"... It's just less bonkers. When the planes arrive, you are somewhere between screwed and more screwed compared to when others arrive, based on what you play, given a DD or T7 or lower cruiser typically has a good chance to get wrecked, while BBs just get firebombed or 2-3 torps per drop instead of the 1-2 from others. There still is no real counterplay, the Ark Royal just screws over fewer people than for example a Ranger or Ryuujou can.

DDs avoid one drop, then you crossdrop.

So far I haven't managed to really "crossdrop" a DD. I dunno why:

- The planes on Ark Royal are just a little bit too slow/DDs too fast?

- I sort of think the turning radius of the Swordfish is slightly bigger than in T4?

(but I'll keep trying).

 

6 hours ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

DDs evade rockets and bombs only if you mess up the approach. Properly executed though, there is no real way to dodge the bombs. Especially on a weaving DD, because you just wait till they swing around the rudder, adjust for that and drop ordnance. Bam, they slide right into the target area and get reduced by 4-7k hp.

When you hit them right and RNGesus accepted your sheep, yes. Half the DD gone. Rarely happens. 

However most of the time it is more like 1-2K for a rocket strike ( OK you have 3) and 2-3 for a carpet-bomb whack.

or perhaps mine always zig when they should zag, anyway the times I hit a DD for 4-7K can be counted with one finger... OK maybe five.

 

6 hours ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

And anything that is not a DD obviously has a far harder time to dodge anything. 

True, but there's also those that you hit full on with HE bombs and then nothing much happens.

It will also cost you more planes, plus they have heal so percentage-wise you hurt them much less. 

 

3 hours ago, MrBourpif said:

They are all balanced when playing same tier or +1 ships. When playing +2 they are completly useless. More than the regular ships. 

It's like when shooting with a BB a magic hand could intercept all your shells. 

Well... ehh... How about +3 then? Still above average... 

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, MrBourpif said:

As an exemple, Premium Ark Royal tier VI  average damage is … 40k ! 

You call this OP ? I can do better in a tier IV CV lol. Actually i can do better in any tier VI ship. 

Yes a TIV IJN CV will do better, because they recently gave them double torps... 

Yet the server average is still <25K for Hermes and Langley. 

 

My average on Ark Royal is 42.500 or so. A bit above average but I'm not THAT good... check the Ranger. 

I'm still learning the best ways to exploit Ark Royal... so studying. And usually I leave the fat ones to my div-mates, not being greedy. 

With div-mates I have almost 70% WR, damage 41.5K. Solo I manage a bit more, over 43K. However... 48K for Ryujo, which is only gonna get better.

Must say most of it due to games ending really really quick (weekend player). I just cannot get enough damage in fast enough (better with Ryujo AP bombs).

But why CVs are OP, well, here is why:

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, MrBourpif said:

As i told , (but you didn't read), And that's funny historically speaking, an Ark Royal tier VI squad can't even approach a Bismarck.

Cv damage is very low, planes are papermade and playing +2 is just a joke. It's like playing with a Phalanx system shooting down your shells.

Bismarck is my favourite food...if I can't find one I'll just tear a North Carolina apart. T8? What heavy AA? Heavier than Bismarck? No problem....

Spoiler

 

 

1 hour ago, MrBourpif said:

If you have so much trouble with CV either you are lying to protect your own interests as a DD player (for exemple) or you are a terrible player.

That's giving your dog a bad name to drown him. 

This depends. Most CV players are potato. If you get a good one (and we get more of those, as potatoes are giving up CV), he is right.

The average-to-good DD player has absolutely NO CHANCE against an average-to-good CV player, assuming equally skilled.

One potato vs the other, well, it is a matter of who potatoes the most... of course.

 

1 hour ago, MrBourpif said:

Oh yeah i succeeded only when i had a moutain conveniently located to hide. Or the target was completly wrecked already. In every other situations he juste smiled and i died.

Most of players know how to use AA properly now. With -2 tier it's just OP

Any T8 BB can get 3 torps up the rear, depends which one it is if I can do it a second time with same squad.

And that's just me and I am not that good, really. 

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, MrBourpif said:

there is no others !

 

 

You must not be a very good CV player then.