CV Rework Discussion

[Gudgeon]

51 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Currently Best Choice for Fast Repetitive Attacks is Graf Zeppelin ;)

If WG would just give the Divebombers a somewhat better Accuracy it would be a Great T8 CV.

 

Its Attack Power would of course still be lower than Shokaku and it surely cant Spam Attacks like Enterprise or Kaga.

But with the Secondaries and the Fast Planes you could make up for these Differences Pretty Good.

 

 

And Meh.

I Hate Ark Royal. The Planes are soooooo slow.

It Hits really Hard for a T6 CV.

But God its so Boring to Play this CV.....

I have literally been Posting in the Forum when Playing that CV cause the Planes needed nearly 3 minutes for the Trip anyways....

 Sounds like the Ark Royal is an ideal template for CV Balance if planes take 3 minutes to reach a target. Better than 30 F*$%ing seconds between bouts of misery.

[CptBarney]

1 hour ago, Gudgeon said:

 Sounds like the Ark Royal is an ideal template for CV Balance if planes take 3 minutes to reach a target. Better than 30 F*$%ing seconds between bouts of misery.

You should watch the haku 550k damage game lol.

 

That was when weegee thought that was a gud idea untill it took dem 9 months to 'balans' cv's.

 

And royal navy CV's were insane back then as well.

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, Gudgeon said:

 Sounds like the Ark Royal is an ideal template for CV Balance if planes take 3 minutes to reach a target. Better than 30 F*$%ing seconds between bouts of misery.

 

Wont happen.

I also Expect Ark Royal to be Buffed sooner or later.

 

Wargaming puts a very heavy Emphasize on the Action and Fun Part.

And CVs having Constant Fast Action is effectively one of their main Targets with the Rework.

 

Ark Royal Certainly is more Balanced than most other CVs.

Mainly because its so slow.

It does Pack quite a Punch. So it can Deal Decent Damage.

But the Lack of Speed with the AIrcraft Dramatically Reduces its Influence on the Battlefield.

 

Reducing the Speed of Aircraft in the Game and in exchange Increasing the Attack Power would certainly Improve Balance for CVs.

But it would be Boring as Hell for the CV Player and so would never work out with WGs Strategy and Wishes.

[Gudgeon]

6 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Wont happen.

I also Expect Ark Royal to be Buffed sooner or later.

 

Wargaming puts a very heavy Emphasize on the Action and Fun Part.

And CVs having Constant Fast Action is effectively one of their main Targets with the Rework.

 

Ark Royal Certainly is more Balanced than most other CVs.

Mainly because its so slow.

It does Pack quite a Punch. So it can Deal Decent Damage.

But the Lack of Speed with the AIrcraft Dramatically Reduces its Influence on the Battlefield.

 

Reducing the Speed of Aircraft in the Game and in exchange Increasing the Attack Power would certainly Improve Balance for CVs.

But it would be Boring as Hell for the CV Player and so would never work out with WGs Strategy and Wishes.

 

Well CV's are fun for one player and not so fun for the recipient on the receiving end.

[RenamedUser_556458253]

CVs after the new update do again damage??? what are u doing in wg. A hakuru did 50 k damage with 3 passes. CVs doesnt fit in hta game and they destroy it , lemming etc. Only the one that plays with cv is happy . Nurf them to the bottom to finish with that thing.Tired with cv players

 

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, Gudgeon said:

 

Well CV's are fun for one player and not so fun for the recipient on the receiving end.

 

I know. But WG has decided they want 2-5% CV Players no matter the consequence.

 

And WG is Spreadsheet Driven.

Spreadsheet however reacts very Slow.

 

Most People even if they are Annoyed as Hell wont Quit before several Weeks or even Months have Passed.

So Spreadsheet wont be urging them to do anything until next Year.

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

14 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

And WG is Spreadsheet Driven.

Spreadsheet however reacts very Slow.

That's how most companies go, and I can't blame them. The Players feedback can be considered, but is often in conflict, depending who you ask. I would do the same, mostly going with the statistic and own testing, than what some internet people say ^^'

[El2aZeR]

34 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That's how most companies go, and I can't blame them.

 

If you had any idea about game development and balancing then you would realize that no, most companies do not purely balance around a spreadsheet.

As Enterprise proves the very idea is utterly idiotic.

[Sunleader]

48 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That's how most companies go, and I can't blame them. The Players feedback can be considered, but is often in conflict, depending who you ask. I would do the same, mostly going with the statistic and own testing, than what some internet people say ^^'

 

Actually thats not really True.

While indeed all Bigger Companies will of course gather Statistics and use them to find Problems and Potential Improvements.

Only very few Companies rely entirely on it.

Most Companies will instead try to get Additional Data and usually Aim to Identify and Fix Problems BEFORE they Start turning up in the Statistics.

 

However. While most Companies have Learned 10 Years ago that going solely by Statistics can result in Dire Consequences due to not Realizing a Problem until Months later.

 

Among Game Companies this method is unfortunately still very common.

 

 

 

 

Now this Video is 2 Years Old.

And by now many Companies have actually started Asking Surveys on things.

And acting on it.

Some even have Started to keep active Forum Staff whose Job it is to check the Mood of Players and Topucs and give Feedback to the Devs on it.

 

 

Unfortunately WG has not been very eager for such things.

They use Surveys usually only to test Interest in something new.

Not on existing issues.

 

So each time they create a mess it takes them Months before they even start to work on fixing it.

Because until people actually start leaving in droves they just say.

Ah meh. Just usual Players being Grumpy about a change.

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Actually thats not really True.

While indeed all Bigger Companies will of course gather Statistics and use them to find Problems and Potential Improvements.

Only very few Companies rely entirely on it.

Most Companies will instead try to get Additional Data and usually Aim to Identify and Fix Problems BEFORE they Start turning up in the Statistics.

 

However. While most Companies have Learned 10 Years ago that going solely by Statistics can result in Dire Consequences due to not Realizing a Problem until Months later.

 

Among Game Companies this method is unfortunately still very common. 

That's more a speculation. I'm pretty sure, that they not only go with statistic. They have tester and they go with player feedback, at least they are saying that. Also there is no company on the world which get everything right always at every time. Take league of legends, they still release champions which are too strong or too weak. The best example for a company with such a budget and size.

 

Sure, Wargamin could balance faster, but guess what, people would come up with "Hey they are hurrying too fast with the balance, they should test more and gather more data". So I assume pvp-game companies will never do it right ^^

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Stunde, Sunleader sagte:

 

Actually thats not really True.

While indeed all Bigger Companies will of course gather Statistics and use them to find Problems and Potential Improvements.

Only very few Companies rely entirely on it.

Most Companies will instead try to get Additional Data and usually Aim to Identify and Fix Problems BEFORE they Start turning up in the Statistics.

 

However. While most Companies have Learned 10 Years ago that going solely by Statistics can result in Dire Consequences due to not Realizing a Problem until Months later.

 

Among Game Companies this method is unfortunately still very common.

 

 

 

 

Now this Video is 2 Years Old.

And by now many Companies have actually started Asking Surveys on things.

And acting on it.

Some even have Started to keep active Forum Staff whose Job it is to check the Mood of Players and Topucs and give Feedback to the Devs on it.

 

 

Unfortunately WG has not been very eager for such things.

They use Surveys usually only to test Interest in something new.

Not on existing issues.

 

So each time they create a mess it takes them Months before they even start to work on fixing it.

Because until people actually start leaving in droves they just say.

Ah meh. Just usual Players being Grumpy about a change.

 

 

People haven't started leaving yet however. That is still an illusion 

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That's more a speculation.

 

Except it has been confirmed in a video.

We also know tester and player feedback is disregarded if it doesn't align with what WG wants to hear so that's a moot point.

 

And while there are few companies that get things right at the start, it rarely goes the way of the colossal  ups that WG regularly puts out.

[Sunleader]

2 hours ago, Yoshanai said:

People haven't started leaving yet however. That is still an illusion 

 

Nope so far losses are too minor to stand out from standard fluctuation.

Most people will continue for 2-3 months after the issue came up before they get annoyed and leave.

 

Thats why I said already.

Spreadsheet wont urge em to fix CVs before start of next Year.

 

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That's more a speculation. I'm pretty sure, that they not only go with statistic. They have tester and they go with player feedback, at least they are saying that. Also there is no company on the world which get everything right always at every time. Take league of legends, they still release champions which are too strong or too weak. The best example for a company with such a budget and size.

 

Sure, Wargamin could balance faster, but guess what, people would come up with "Hey they are hurrying too fast with the balance, they should test more and gather more data". So I assume pvp-game companies will never do it right ^^

 

Are they :)

Think about it. How do their Testers work.

 

They get the Ship on small private Servers with very small local feedback.

There they might actually listen to it as well.

 

But after that they give the Testers the Ship to Play on Live Server for several Months only doing minimal changes.

 

Why you think they do that :) ?

Answer is. To get the Spreadsheet.

They dont trust the Testers feedback at all and want to have Hard Data instead.

 

And well.

If things change fast people might complain.

But they stay cause they see something is done.

 

[The_Norwood]

Well, it finally pissed me off beyond my patience. Uninstalled the game.

 

CV rework did that.

Well done WG, i'm never playing another wargaming game as long as i live.

[CptBarney]

24 minutes ago, The_Norwood said:

Well, it finally pissed me off beyond my patience. Uninstalled the game.

 

CV rework did that.

Well done WG, i'm never playing another wargaming game as long as i live.

Well at least you wont get to see the potential ‘fun’ cv’s will be.

[siraiaw]

Why did wargaming remove the defensive aa panic effect, it would be a way to help ballancing cvs, and also what other changes should be added if they added the old panic effect?

[siraiaw]

12 minutes ago, siraiaw said:

Why did wargaming remove the defensive aa panic effect, it would be a way to help ballancing cvs, and also what other changes should be added if they added the old panic effect?

i mean they could add an ability to destroyers that makes the aa systems cause the attack aircraft to panic, and widen the aiming reticle to the max during attacks against that destroyer

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, siraiaw said:

Why did wargaming remove the defensive aa panic effect, it would be a way to help ballancing cvs, and also what other changes should be added if they added the old panic effect?

 

Because the core gameplay of the rework doesn't allow for counterplay, otherwise reworked CVs become useless in one way or another.

Hence why the rework is fundamentally broken.

[CptBarney]

10 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Because the core gameplay of the rework doesn't allow for counterplay, otherwise reworked CVs become useless in one way or another.

Hence why the rework is fundamentally broken.

Makes me wonder how broken miss indomitable would be. Or illustrious.

 

or even my waifu yorkie.

[BLUB__BLUB]

On 11/8/2019 at 7:11 PM, Gudgeon said:

 Sounds like the Ark Royal is an ideal template for CV Balance if planes take 3 minutes to reach a target. Better than 30 F*$%ing seconds between bouts of misery.

Yes does. Furthermore, even BBs have the option to avoid. If you drop the 3 trops from the side,

they usually manage to avoid 1, or sometimes 2. DDs have (IMO) fair chance to avoid everything.

With RF you will always hit them - full on straightlining DDs can take 2.5K if they just barge straight on and get all full on the broadside.

A DD that actually weaves and dodges gets away with 300 form RF, never eats torps, and HE-bombs will take 6 attacks to kill it.

Of course,,  there are DDs that eat 2 torps and are dead then, as well. 

 

I think Ark Royal is far more fun as a CV, because of that. 

[EgyptOverseer]

21 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yes does. Furthermore, even BBs have the option to avoid. If you drop the 3 trops from the side,

they usually manage to avoid 1, or sometimes 2. DDs have (IMO) fair chance to avoid everything.

With RF you will always hit them - full on straightlining DDs can take 2.5K if they just barge straight on and get all full on the broadside.

A DD that actually weaves and dodges gets away with 300 form RF, never eats torps, and HE-bombs will take 6 attacks to kill it.

Of course,,  there are DDs that eat 2 torps and are dead then, as well. 

 

I think Ark Royal is far more fun as a CV, because of that. 

Kind of a sad state of affairs, really.

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Kind of a sad state of affairs, really.

Yes. In (for example) Furious or Ryujo I can strike anything at will. Even other CVs.

Yeah sure you will pay for it, but you can do it. In Ark Royal you can only do it if you are "sneaky".

Otherwise, all the planes will die before you strike (or the victim misplays). 

Eh, I also take Ark Royal to T9 (fail-divisoning with T7 DD). It's no  problem there either.

 

The thing is other CVs are quicker and the DPS doesn't  have time to do much.

Nor does the FLAK, but that's totally avoidable if you are somewhat good.

Then add the fact that slow planes give ships time to react. 

Plus AA targeting the last plane first - what you get is what we have. 

 

[thisismalacoda]

Am 9.11.2019 um 04:27, Sunleader sagte:

 

Nope so far losses are too minor to stand out from standard fluctuation.

Most people will continue for 2-3 months after the issue came up before they get annoyed and leave.

 

 

As seen in other games, people with a running subscription (~ premium here) are unlikely to stop playing and completely leave as long as that is active. The timing of the CV drop one or two months after many people purchased the one-year subscription plan during the Christmas sale was nifty.

 

I've spent ~200€ and had 0 forum posts in the eight months before the CV rework; in the eight months after I spent ~0€ and posted (read: complained) like 200 times. I'd love to see their numbers and am curious if the deciders are willing to connect the dots - if those dots exist. Maybe they are having their best year ever and all employees receive tiny golden CVs as presents.

[EgyptOverseer]

12 hours ago, thisismalacoda said:

As seen in other games, people with a running subscription (~ premium here) are unlikely to stop playing and completely leave as long as that is active. The timing of the CV drop one or two months after many people purchased the one-year subscription plan during the Christmas sale was nifty.

 

I've spent ~200€ and had 0 forum posts in the eight months before the CV rework; in the eight months after I spent ~0€ and posted (read: complained) like 200 times. I'd love to see their numbers and am curious if the deciders are willing to connect the dots - if those dots exist. Maybe they are having their best year ever and all employees receive tiny golden CVs as presents.

Interesting perspective.

 

To be honest, they could release an Enola Gay plane with infinite Little Boys and people would still buy whatever premium ship they release, so they will never look seriously at any negative sign-up trends.

[HaachamaShipping]

On 11/8/2019 at 7:11 PM, Gudgeon said:

 Sounds like the Ark Royal is an ideal template for CV Balance if planes take 3 minutes to reach a target. Better than 30 F*$%ing seconds between bouts of misery.

"Ideal"... It's just less bonkers. When the planes arrive, you are somewhere between screwed and more screwed compared to when others arrive, based on what you play, given a DD or T7 or lower cruiser typically has a good chance to get wrecked, while BBs just get firebombed or 2-3 torps per drop instead of the 1-2 from others. There still is no real counterplay, the Ark Royal just screws over fewer people than for example a Ranger or Ryuujou can.

On 11/10/2019 at 11:31 AM, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yes does. Furthermore, even BBs have the option to avoid. If you drop the 3 trops from the side,

they usually manage to avoid 1, or sometimes 2. DDs have (IMO) fair chance to avoid everything.

With RF you will always hit them - full on straightlining DDs can take 2.5K if they just barge straight on and get all full on the broadside.

A DD that actually weaves and dodges gets away with 300 form RF, never eats torps, and HE-bombs will take 6 attacks to kill it.

Of course,,  there are DDs that eat 2 torps and are dead then, as well. 

 

I think Ark Royal is far more fun as a CV, because of that. 

DDs avoid one drop, then you crossdrop.

DDs evade rockets and bombs only if you mess up the approach. Properly executed though, there is no real way to dodge the bombs. Especially on a weaving DD, because you just wait till they swing around the rudder, adjust for that and drop ordnance. Bam, they slide right into the target area and get reduced by 4-7k hp.

 

And anything that is not a DD obviously has a far harder time to dodge anything.