CV Rework Discussion

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, CptBarney said:

They make funny and loud noises that scares smoll potatoes and other creatures.

 

Imagine texas with a 50% flat out increase in its con dps and AA max range at 5.8km?

 

Makes me wonder if that would actually do anything.

Texas does not have 5.8 km range. Texas lacks long range AA and only has short and mid-range. It has thus no idiot filter in form of flak. What it does have is up to 700+ dps base, before modifiers. While not untouchable, it certainly is not a great first target for CVs among T5 BBs.

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

Texas does not have 5.8 km range. Texas lacks long range AA and only has short and mid-range. It has thus no idiot filter in form of flak. What it does have is up to 700+ dps base, before modifiers. While not untouchable, it certainly is not a great first target for CVs among T5 BBs.

Think your living up to your name lol. I put imagine, i have texas so i know her lol.

 

@Yoshanai Guessing you would need Super AA 2? loike 500% increase? Or is that still not enuff lol.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Gerade eben, CptBarney sagte:

Think your living up to your name lol. I put imagine, i have texas so i know her lol.

 

@Yoshanai Guessing you would need Super AA 2? loike 500% increase? Or is that still not enuff lol.

500% would down 1 1/2 planes per second (T10 planes) which means you would need 5 rocket planes as HP sacrifice to hit the Texas once. You would be able to torp it sacrificing 5 torp Bombers as HP buffer and DBs you will also lose around 5 or 6 for every strike. 

 

So imagine starting with Torps to trigger DMC because Torps can kill engine/rudder/flood. Then follow up with DBs to get 2 perma fires going and after they go out set another quick fire with rockets. Until then you'll have enough tbs ready again to trigger DMC again and texas should be dead in 5~minutes while you had to sacrifice a full rocket squad, a full dB squad and 1 full and a half torpedo squad to kill it. 

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, Yoshanai said:

500% would down 1 1/2 planes per second (T10 planes) which means you would need 5 rocket planes as HP sacrifice to hit the Texas once. You would be able to torp it sacrificing 5 torp Bombers as HP buffer and DBs you will also lose around 5 or 6 for every strike. 

 

So imagine starting with Torps to trigger DMC because Torps can kill engine/rudder/flood. Then follow up with DBs to get 2 perma fires going and after they go out set another quick fire with rockets. Until then you'll have enough tbs ready again to trigger DMC again and texas should be dead in 5~minutes while you had to sacrifice a full rocket squad, a full dB squad and 1 full and a half torpedo squad to kill it. 

Wow so even extreme adjustments do nothing, so much for the 50% increase nevermind 500%.

 

I knew aa was pointless but damm thats nuts lol.

 

plus i guess you have to factor in damaged AA modules which would be very noticeable in the reduction of con dps.

 

*puts blanket over miss texas*

 

[LordTareq]

2 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Aaaand then you think about who you rely upon to protect you in a random match... No, joust no... As things stand now you gain dpm by getting closer with a cv as well staying away is a neccesity due to the lack of protection and not a wanted feature...

 

Perhaps a timer until squadrons need to return to the carrier would be better, that way it further promotes a position closer to the frontline without forcing it. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Gerade eben, LordTareq sagte:

 

Perhaps a timer until squadrons need to return to the carrier would be better, that way it further promotes a position closer to the frontline without forcing it. 

A timer? Like what? Example pls

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, CptBarney said:

Wow so even extreme adjustments do nothing, so much for the 50% increase nevermind 500%.

 

I knew aa was pointless but damm thats nuts lol.

 

plus i guess you have to factor in damaged AA modules which would be very noticeable in the reduction of con dps.

 

*puts blanket over miss texas*

 

That's vs T10 planes that Texas won't see. 500% increase on 700 dps means up to 3.5k dps. A T4 CV flying in their will lose planes way faster.

 

Not that these mental exercises in any way or form are useful though.

2 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

 

Perhaps a timer until squadrons need to return to the carrier would be better, that way it further promotes a position closer to the frontline without forcing it. 

How is that different to a range restriction? Like, the only way it differs is i you take your aircraft to idle around for pure "spotting". In which case, yeah, I'm not too worried about those kinds of players.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Gerade eben, Sleepy_Bunny sagte:

Not that these mental exercises in any way or form are useful though

For some simply reading the answers of experienced CV players is a mental exercise they are not really able to complete and therefore get confused. 

[El2aZeR]

3 hours ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

GOOD THINGS: death of thousands cuts…..well I think it is much better deal than with hughe alpha where good/great players could put out ships (DDs and some cruisers) in one pass….even DPM is similar this ALHA strike influenced much more overall battle. It is not the same to kill dd in first minute by crosdrop with 3 TBs in one pass or give him chance to retreat from rockets that do not kill instant.

 

In the end CVs deal at least the same damage in the same timespan. A higher RoF simply grants them more flexibility.

Also killing a DD in the first minute via crossdrop was impossible in RTS CVs as service time alone prevented that. Even a 3-way crossdrop could also be foiled by DFAA. Nothing stops rockets from killing a DD.

Sounds more like a buff to me.

 

3 hours ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

Second good thing is that CV (as all other classes) has ability to attack whole game if he is a little bit carefull. Every other class has unlimited ammo so in fact CV do. I see no problem there if we change some other things. AAA is fine (with accepted suggestions)

 

CVs are not like any other class, so this point about them is moot. By giving them the ability to attack the whole match is to make them unpunishable and as such overpowered.

 

3 hours ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

1. – remove AP. Ap does not fit into “death by thousands cuts”. It is just wrong. Leave only HE with greater dispersion so BBs are hitted and DDs not so often

2. – introduce radio system. CV sees target but only ships in radio range see them also….Ships out of radiorange do not see ships, do not see ships on minimap – WOT style

3 – remove/modify rockets….rockets are anti DD weapons. CV should not be anti DD, it should be anti BB ship. Or leave rockets like tiny tims. HVARS (Big E especially) are just wrong. I would remove rockets totally from game.

4 – reduce bomb DMG increase torpedos dmg (again moving towards BBs dmg from DD/CA dmg)

5 – introduce range…lets say 80/100 km…that’s way CV need to move much better, and can not influence A from C….if there is fight for points and CV did not move….he can not reach A…he can not kill dds on A…he can not decap…..more risk involved.

 

1. The rework concept relies on the CV being able to  all over everything else, as such anything that goes against this concept will inherently murder it either in effectiveness or in popularity.

2. Sure, but this is entirely useless as it doesn't stop a CV from completely murdering a flank. Aside from the fact that a flank only needs spotting information on that specific flank anyway.

3. See 1.

4. Considering cross drops still exist I fail to see how this will make any appreciable difference. Generally speaking TBs are already a pretty good choice against cruisers and can be against DDs. It's currently just not worth the effort to set up cross drops as rockets are a more reliable and easier to use choice.

5. Biggest maps are only 48x48km. Also see 1.

 

3 hours ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

Movement to avoid torpedos + runing out of range of CV is viable active defence (later especialy in endgame).

 

It's not. Just like you've harped about my points your changes would make CVs pretty much unplayable for less skilled players. Even worse you've just potentially buffed skilled players.

[LordTareq]

4 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

How is that different to a range restriction? Like, the only way it differs is i you take your aircraft to idle around for pure "spotting". In which case, yeah, I'm not too worried about those kinds of players.

Range would be a radius around the CV outside of which aircraft can’t operate. So its a hard restriction. Timer is more of a soft restriction in that (depending on the timer) squadrons can physically go everywhere on the map but the further they go the less they can do.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, LordTareq said:

Range would be a radius around the CV outside of which aircraft can’t operate. So its a hard restriction. Timer is more of a soft restriction in that (depending on the timer) squadrons can physically go everywhere on the map but the further they go the less they can do.

If the timer combined with plane speed only allows me to go this far, it is in effect a range restriction. If the timer is so generous I could reach any part of the map anyway (like the timer post sinking of a CV), then it's kind of pointless. Funnily enough, if the timer doesn't allow you to go across the map, it basically is more restrictive than a simple range restriction, as range would mean within that distance I can do whatever for as long as I want, while a timer dictates a maximum distance, but only if you go straight there and you cannot do anything else. That's not "soft".

[LordTareq]

20 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

If the timer combined with plane speed only allows me to go this far, it is in effect a range restriction. If the timer is so generous I could reach any part of the map anyway (like the timer post sinking of a CV), then it's kind of pointless. Funnily enough, if the timer doesn't allow you to go across the map, it basically is more restrictive than a simple range restriction, as range would mean within that distance I can do whatever for as long as I want, while a timer dictates a maximum distance, but only if you go straight there and you cannot do anything else. That's not "soft".

It actually is, or at least can be, but not the way you interpret what I wrote.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

It actually is, or at least can be, but not the way you interpret what I wrote.

Then give a better explanation, please.

[CptBarney]

51 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

Not that these mental exercises in any way or form are useful though.

And? this thread isn't useful but it exists anyways. It's just a discussion for fun since there isnt anything else to talk about.

 

Loosen up otherwise ill get leander to do speshul things to you.

[Thracen]

When will they fix spotting and rocket attacks against DDs? It's the only thing left to fix with the new rework. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

17 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

 

And when playing against CVs, I get good teams, I get bad teams, I get lots of potato CVs, but still they usually are among the last enemy ships to get sunk.

So from my POV I can't subscribe to Your view... might happen for You, but in those random battles I do during the daytime CVs rarely die early.

 With "last one sunk" I mean they have to chase the CV all over the map with whatever is left of their team.

And then the CV usually manages to take one or two down to Davy Jones...

[Deckeru_Maiku]

20 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Only if they meet a red potato team with a red potato CV. That big Piñata is easy prey if your team sucks. 

Only a good CV player will survive onto the end if he has a potato team. If he's no good and has potato tem, he'll be dead quickly.

Because after capping, guess what DD is gonna do...

or

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

 With "last one sunk" I mean they have to chase the CV all over the map with whatever is left of their team.

And then the CV usually manages to take one or two down to Davy Jones...

 

You do have to decide which way it is supposed to be...

I stated, that it doesn't matter if the CV is a potato or not, in most cases he is among the last three ships alive. And yes, sometimes he has to be hunted down. So what?

Still means that a CV has a larger chance than about any other class to stay alive 'til the last moment of the battle and be able to do damage, even if it's controlled by a potato...

[invicta2012]

3 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

Still means that a CV has a larger chance than about any other class to stay alive 'til the last moment of the battle and be able to do damage, even if it's controlled by a potato...

The whole end-game stalemate thing is one of the reasons why the Air Superiority CV needs to make a comeback. Being able to protect surface ships should become a vital part of CV play at the end of a match, rather than it all just lurching to an inevitable (and rather dull)  CV vs CV conclusion.

[BLUB__BLUB]

14 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

You do have to decide which way it is supposed to be...

I stated, that it doesn't matter if the CV is a potato or not, in most cases he is among the last three ships alive. And yes, sometimes he has to be hunted down. So what?

Still means that a CV has a larger chance than about any other class to stay alive 'til the last moment of the battle and be able to do damage, even if it's controlled by a potato...

Well the best comparison is  just like a burderhumping BB. Which sometimes has to be hunted down as well. 

However you do not have the armour of such a BB. Means you'll be dead a LOT quicker. 

And you'll be dead quite quickly if you have a potato team. A lot sooner than the borderhumping BB.

 

[AndyHill]

21 hours ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

1- in my opinion it is wrong for CV to hunt dd....it was historicaly wrong, it is balanc vise wrong...

Why would it be historically wrong? It's true that Dds were a somewhat low priority target, but whenever there was a suitable opportunity, planes really did a number on DDs. And as far as priorities go, anything without a flat top was a secondary target at best when planes found a fleet to bomb.

[Yedwy]

Most people today have their perception scewed by the fact they grew up in modern age with DDGs which are an entirely different story...

[CptBarney]

Well i got over 50% winrate, but trying to do above 100k consistently is another story.

 

Especially when you get games with mostly cruisers and dd's (so little damage to farm). Or games were your team wins too quickly to start to any decent damage.

[BLUB__BLUB]

8 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Well i got over 50% winrate, but trying to do above 100k consistently is another story.

 

Especially when you get games with mostly cruisers and dd's (so little damage to farm). Or games were your team wins too quickly to start to any decent damage.

This, really. Plus then when you finally have a nice perma-fire crackling, the teammates kill the ship... LOL. 

(which is why I am grinding the IJN line now, and also why I haven't bought Kaga --> HE bombs...).

 

[CptBarney]

I forgot to add it was in miss midway, at 35 battles atm.

 

My overall winrate im close to 57% at this point.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 8 Minuten, CptBarney sagte:

I forgot to add it was in miss midway, at 35 battles atm.

 

My overall winrate im close to 57% at this point.

Nice.