CV Rework Discussion

[Pikkozoikum]

8 minutes ago, Yoshanai said:

... 

How do you have so much faith in your teams. 

Faith? You know, that there are many popular games out with support (or healer) roles? ;)

 

As I said, it was a larger suggestion. Also talked about rewarding a CV player, who goes for spotting. beside that, every smart player woudln't go for an attack/bomber aircraft, if there is no good opportunity to do a good attack.

And if one CV don't want go for spotting, then it is choice. A DD can refuse spotting as well, that has nothing to do with the design, more about the players gameplay.

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Faith? You know, that there are many popular games out with support (or healer) roles? ;)

Most games with "healer" role also kinda require coordinated bunch, preferably with VoIP of some sort. In your usual random game, "healer/support" usually is first to be REEEd at "y u no heal me 24/7"

[Pikkozoikum]

8 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Most games with "healer" role also kinda require coordinated bunch, preferably with VoIP of some sort. In your usual random game, "healer/support" usually is first to be REEEd at "y u no heal me 24/7"

Actually it's mostly the different case. First of all, the voice stuff was pretty uncommon many years ago, but even there support role existed.

Beside that, if I go with World of Warcraft, when I played healer, I went into random dungeons, with random peoples, without much communication. I just healed.

If I go with League of legends, I play support. I often don't chat much or use any voice stuff. I just play the support and support people. There is not much communication beside pings.

I play Elite Dangerous a support Cutter, nobody is there asking for support, they just get it.

 

Communication and Coordination is not nessecary for a support role. The Support mostly knows about his role and what he is able to do.

Communication and Coordination just improves the perfomance, but is not a requirement

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, Maihon said:

1) So dodge/active maneouvre , one of the "supposed" counterplays, for ships against CV attacks is penalised because everyone in range, his dog and the kitchen sink immediately fire at ships attempting this?

2) I suggest that only a potato would not scout for his team.

 

Dodging in itself does not work against CVs and if you're engaged by the enemy chances are they are spotting you anyway.

CV play is a damage race. Anything that gets in the way of that, be it putting fighter cover over your team or spotting for teammates, puts you behind. It's often better to just deal the damage yourself rather than relying on your teammates. After all a CV has the firepower available to quickly dispatch of any enemy.

 

Aside from that, the issue is also with gameplay. Spotting in the current CV iteration would be passive, as such fails the requirement of actually being a game in itself. If you were to force a CV to scout by e.g. limiting its strike potential then interest in the class, which already is extremely low, would plummet.

[DFens_666]

9 hours ago, Yoshanai said:

I bet the people who are doing this for the purpose of destroying the game are exceptionally proud of it too not realising how they are worse than any other offenses that can be committed ingame against community members. 

Playing low tier for the sole purpose to see it all burn because one does not agree with how things are going is very immature. You gain nothing out of it but everyone else loses because of it. 

 

Afterall, im not sure how many actually do it for that purpose. They might say that, but secretly they just wanna dominate other players because of broken mechanics (2 torps / literally no AA).

Ive been playing a few games just see what it is like - and its absurd.

 

9 hours ago, mtm78 said:

You had sealclubbing CV's with RTS. Not as many as now, but still. 

 

True, but i was thinking about the time from 0.8.0 -> Hosho got 2 torps per drop. T4 CVs were nothing special, but i dont think they needed any buffs either. It was easy enough to show people the basics, rather low damage output, without the destraction of too much AA. Ofc we cant have that, make that crap OP so we can buff the CV player numbers. And then we go back 2 years when they removed Manual drop from lowtier CVs because of sealclubbing Just rediculous - nothing else.

[gizaman]

Wait till tier 10 subs arrive that can under water cap and easy get away again. Homing torps etc. When pros play them it is gonna be a nightmare.

Expect CVs hunting DDs even more than now, so subs are Gods.

[Rionnen_marksman]

Hi guys, would you buy a premium t8 CV right now?

 

who knows how long / if the enterprise will be coming back.

 

if you would, which one would you buy?

[WingedHussar_Adler]

1 minute ago, Rionnen_marksman said:

Hi guys, would you buy a premium t8 CV right now?

 

who knows how long / if the enterprise will be coming back.

 

if you would, which one would you buy?

Yes t 8 cvs are fun. I think BigE will not return. It is OP. 

 

Out of rest I prefer Kaga. 

[Yedwy]

@Rionnen_marksman If I needed one sure, otherwise not so much... Which one depends entirely on your needs and previous experience...

[WingedHussar_Adler]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Afterall, im not sure how many actually do it for that purpose. They might say that, but secretly they just wanna dominate other players because of broken mechanics (2 torps / literally no AA).

Ive been playing a few games just see what it is like - and its absurd.

 

 

True, but i was thinking about the time from 0.8.0 -> Hosho got 2 torps per drop. T4 CVs were nothing special, but i dont think they needed any buffs either. It was easy enough to show people the basics, rather low damage output, without the destraction of too much AA. Ofc we cant have that, make that crap OP so we can buff the CV player numbers. And then we go back 2 years when they removed Manual drop from lowtier CVs because of sealclubbing Just rediculous - nothing else.

In 2 months there are over 100.000 games in t4 CVs. Yes noobs enjoy to sealclub. It is related to small man's parts :)

[HaachamaShipping]

11 minutes ago, Rionnen_marksman said:

Hi guys, would you buy a premium t8 CV right now?

 

who knows how long / if the enterprise will be coming back.

 

if you would, which one would you buy?

Eh. If you really like high tier CV gameplay, then ok. These things are expensive though. Might be good if you can get results out of CVs to grind credits, but just for performance, silver line CVs are fine and I personally prefer playing my Implacable with its free permacamo.

 

Only T8 premium CV I'd currently buy is the Kaga, as enterprise isn't around anymore, Saipan is hard and GZ is not very good.

[Nov_A]

13 minutes ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

In 2 months there are over 100.000 games in t4 CVs. Yes noobs enjoy to sealclub. It is related to small man's parts :)

 

Well, there are actually new players playing them, people grinding through the techtrees again and this one guy with 3000+ Games on Hosho.

[Pikkozoikum]

17 minutes ago, Rionnen_marksman said:

Hi guys, would you buy a premium t8 CV right now?

 

who knows how long / if the enterprise will be coming back.

 

if you would, which one would you buy?

Please consider, that those CV could maybe still change slightly or the conditions around them. A CV, that might be good now, can get worse in future

[CptBarney]

playing midway has been struggle with the utter garbage teams at tier 10.

 

still only breaking even but my pr has gone up doe.

 

i hate the torps on the midway would rather have 3 torps with better handling with 5k damage or something.

 

bombs are ok and rockets are fine. Enemies seem more inclined to dodge my attacks a lot than actually play usefully half the time which is hilarious annoying or sad depending on the situation.

 

idk 20 games so far but tonight has been a real headache.

[Rionnen_marksman]

10 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Please consider, that those CV could maybe still change slightly or the conditions around them. A CV, that might be good now, can get worse in future

Looks like Kaga or wait a while tbh, might buy Something else instead of a CV then, thanks all.

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, Rionnen_marksman said:

Looks like Kaga or wait a while tbh, might buy Something else instead of a CV then, thanks all.

[MadGunna]

1 hour ago, gizaman said:

Wait till tier 10 subs arrive that can under water cap and easy get away again. Homing torps etc. When pros play them it is gonna be a nightmare.

Expect CVs hunting DDs even more than now, so subs are Gods.

You have seen how CV's manhandle the subs in the current test iteration right? Also submerged capping is not a thing and I doubt it will be, no one complained about how it currently works (where a sub can only cap when surfaced)

[Grobi69]

27 minutes ago, Rionnen_marksman said:

Hi guys, would you buy a premium t8 CV right now?

 

who knows how long / if the enterprise will be coming back.

 

if you would, which one would you buy?

Depends on what exactly you are looking for. If you want a strong carrier Kaga is a safe bet, Saipan is much more challenging for less experienced players. Graf Zeppelin in its current state is in my opinion something for people who prefer uphill races. But who knows, maybe the upcoming B version can attract enough tryhards.

 

I honestly doubt that Enterprise will come back. Perhaps in X-mas crates. This thing is so damned strong. The only weakness (not really...) it has is RNG when using dive bombers. If it came back to the store it would be my first choice over Kaga.

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Rionnen_marksman said:

who knows how long / if the enterprise will be coming back.

 

I believe it has been confirmed during an official stream that the answer to that is "never".

And for good reason. Enterprise is a T10 CV in disguise.

[CptBarney]

DOes anyone have any tips on how to deal with blobs in general and when ships start turning against midway torps?

 

and any other general advice with midway.

 

currently have 20 battles with her but it seems like a chore especially with the quality of teammates atm.

[HaachamaShipping]

54 minutes ago, Grobi69 said:

I honestly doubt that Enterprise will come back. Perhaps in X-mas crates. This thing is so damned strong. The only weakness (not really...) it has is RNG when using dive bombers. If it came back to the store it would be my first choice over Kaga.

Issue with that is, while other CVs with RNG like GZ need RNG to make their drop even remotely worth it and even on best outcome achieve comparatively modest results, Enty with good RNG devstrikes ships.

[Spearhawk1969]

One thing that really bugs me about the changes is the "fighter ability"

That should NOT be in a cruiser or destroyer... why? because none of them had the ability to have a fighter squadron 

at all, they maybe had scouting aircrafts or slingshot, but that by far would not overwhelm a fighter/bomber squadron 

and destroy them as they do in the game now.

 

sure you may argue balance in game and CV are to strong etc....

 

But if your going to give away abilities to a crap that does not have it then give the CV automatic guns at same range as

destroyers etc, not secondary guns, but real guns that does real damage. or perhaps laser guided missiles because if we 

going to start give away skills I am sure I would love a computer guided missile so I don't have to think about aiming, just

press a button.

 

or, well, as a skill, automatic guns the same size as cruisers have it for when/if a DD or cruiser comes into range then

as the dd and cruiser can pop up airplanes and wreck the CV chanses then CV should have equal chanse in a toe to toe fight,

we did want balance both way right? Not just weaken the CV?

 

Otherwise, just remove the CV all together. all ships has AA, if a CV harasses you, do as everyone else, cluster 3 ships together

set your AA and I can tell you that that makes it a whole lot harder for the CV.

 

But I ask again....whats the logical reasoning behind letting ships that did not have launchpads or landingpads or any capacity 

to have such aircrafts , why would you give it to them as a skill?

[El2aZeR]

20 minutes ago, Spearhawk1969 said:

But I ask again....whats the logical reasoning behind letting ships that did not have launchpads or landingpads or any capacity 

to have such aircrafts , why would you give it to them as a skill?

 

Catapult launched floatplane fighters did exist, however were rarely (if ever?) used to my knowledge.

A lot of cruisers do have catapults to launch floatplanes, however no DD can equip these. Only one historically did, a small series of Fletcher class destroyers got a catapult installed in place of a torp launcher but they weren't particularly successful and got reverted to the standard configuration. Those aren't in the game.

 

Obviously they didn't launch squads of these, that's a liberty WG has taken with the concept. They weren't particularly effective either.

[Pikkozoikum]

54 minutes ago, Spearhawk1969 said:

One thing that really bugs me about the changes is the "fighter ability"

That should NOT be in a cruiser or destroyer... why? because none of them had the ability to have a fighter squadron 

at all, they maybe had scouting aircrafts or slingshot, but that by far would not overwhelm a fighter/bomber squadron 

and destroy them as they do in the game now.

 

sure you may argue balance in game and CV are to strong etc....

 

But if your going to give away abilities to a crap that does not have it then give the CV automatic guns at same range as

destroyers etc, not secondary guns, but real guns that does real damage. or perhaps laser guided missiles because if we 

going to start give away skills I am sure I would love a computer guided missile so I don't have to think about aiming, just

press a button.

 

or, well, as a skill, automatic guns the same size as cruisers have it for when/if a DD or cruiser comes into range then

as the dd and cruiser can pop up airplanes and wreck the CV chanses then CV should have equal chanse in a toe to toe fight,

we did want balance both way right? Not just weaken the CV?

 

Otherwise, just remove the CV all together. all ships has AA, if a CV harasses you, do as everyone else, cluster 3 ships together

set your AA and I can tell you that that makes it a whole lot harder for the CV.

 

But I ask again....whats the logical reasoning behind letting ships that did not have launchpads or landingpads or any capacity 

to have such aircrafts , why would you give it to them as a skill?

If the logic is a problem for you, that ships can have fighter protection, then it's only a question of game design.

If the float planes are really bother you, then they could just give them landbased fighter, which come for an airflied. And like the normal fighters of the CV, they approach down from higher alituteds and circle then around the cruiser, but that doesn't make much of a difference. The Mechanic would be the exact same

[Sunleader]

36 minutes ago, Spearhawk1969 said:

One thing that really bugs me about the changes is the "fighter ability"

That should NOT be in a cruiser or destroyer... why? because none of them had the ability to have a fighter squadron 

at all, they maybe had scouting aircrafts or slingshot, but that by far would not overwhelm a fighter/bomber squadron 

and destroy them as they do in the game now.

 

sure you may argue balance in game and CV are to strong etc....

 

But if your going to give away abilities to a crap that does not have it then give the CV automatic guns at same range as

destroyers etc, not secondary guns, but real guns that does real damage. or perhaps laser guided missiles because if we 

going to start give away skills I am sure I would love a computer guided missile so I don't have to think about aiming, just

press a button.

 

or, well, as a skill, automatic guns the same size as cruisers have it for when/if a DD or cruiser comes into range then

as the dd and cruiser can pop up airplanes and wreck the CV chanses then CV should have equal chanse in a toe to toe fight,

we did want balance both way right? Not just weaken the CV?

 

Otherwise, just remove the CV all together. all ships has AA, if a CV harasses you, do as everyone else, cluster 3 ships together

set your AA and I can tell you that that makes it a whole lot harder for the CV.

 

But I ask again....whats the logical reasoning behind letting ships that did not have launchpads or landingpads or any capacity 

to have such aircrafts , why would you give it to them as a skill?

 

Some things to Clarify here.

 

1.

Actually Reconnaissance Plane and Catapult Fighter in Reality was the same Plane.

Cruisers and Battleships very often had Floatplane Aircraft which were Launched by Catapult and then later Landed in the Sea to be taken up aboard again.

 

These Aircraft. Were General Purpose. If you were Fighting an Enemy Surface Ship you would go up as a Scout. Often not just staying above the Ship but actually Heading towards the Enemy or Patrolling the Area around the Ship to Detect Enemies and Support your Fire Control.

And the very same Aircraft was very often also Equipped with Machineguns and could enter into Fights with Enemy Aircraft. Be it Attacking Bombers or Enemy Floatplanes.

 

2.

Now. I Personally dont know any Destroyers having them. Neither in Reality nor in World of Warships.

At least if we stay with the Historical Ones. On the Blueprint ones. If World of Warships ever Decides to add the Spähkreuzer 38 (A German Oversized Destroyer with 3x2 150mm Guns and an Aircraft Catapult.=

This might Change of course.

 

For Cruisers and Especially Battleships however. Most actually had Catapult Aircraft. And most of these Catapult Aircraft were Fitted with Machineguns. Some in Fact were even Fitted with Bombs and Autocannons.

And so most also got em in WoWs.

Now. I dont know if WoWs has given Catapult Aircraft to any BBs or Cruisers in the Game. Which were not Supposed to have them.

But well. Its a Game. And WoWs taking Liberties with Realism here is not exactly Big News.

 

3.

Just Saying Mate. But CVs already have a Crabton of Completely Unrealistic Abilities.

Spawning Fighters out of the Rear of a Bomber Squadron.

Printing New Aircraft during Battle.

Being able to Launch Aircraft regardless of their own Speed, Heading, Weather and Hull Condition.

Carrying 2-3 Times as Many Aircraft as they Historically were Capable of Carrying.

Having all Aircraft that Return Instantly Repaired and Rearmed.

Launching Full Squadrons in about 10 Seconds.

Having no Ammo Magazines that could Detonate when CVs were in Reality Swimming Bombs with Insanely Large Ammo Depots inside it...

Having almost Pinpoint Accuracy with Airstrikes when in Reality maybe 1 out of 50 Bombs actually Struck a Target.

Dropping Aircraft Torpedoes at Full Speed.

Magically Retreating Aircraft to an 5km Altitude in about 5 Seconds after an Attack.

Aircraft Constantly Landing and Starting at the same Time.

 

So. Well Mate.

If you would rather have we Played a Realistic Game. I hope your Prepared to remove CVs.

Because in Reality you would not have a CV in such a Battle.

Just getting the Full Squadron into the Air and Formed up would take several Minutes.

And pls note. Doing any Turns or Driving at anything but the right Speed and Direction while the Aircraft Launch would not work out.

 

4.

As someone who Played CV quite a bit.

3 Ships Clustered together do not Scare me. And dont make anything Hard for me.

I Simply dont Care to be Honest. Sure. I cant make 3 Passes at these with the same Squadron. But who cares. I.ll be back with a New Squadron 30 Seconds Later.

 

 

 

 

And Yes. Lets come to that Question.

Which Ships in the Game Actually have Catapult Aircraft Equipped but should not have an Catapult ?

I dont deny they Exist. As I said. WG likes to take Liberties here.

But I dont have the Feeling that this is common enough to really complain about it.