CV Rework Discussion

[Sunleader]

13 minutes ago, veslingr said:

this is also what WG stated they want to happen. They did say "no flying zone ships" is in the history.....and from my perspective it is also ok...t8 cruiser, dd, BB can and will do dmg to t10 bb/CL/DD....so i do not see reason why t8 cv could not strike t10 cruiser....todays cv have low alpha and dmg to that cruiser would not be that significat that no fly zone is needed. 

 

I really relly do not see reason why t8 cv should not be able to do 3-5 k dmg to cruiser with heavyy loses to planes

 

Which basicly Means that CVs are Overpowered and God Mode.

Because right now.

If I am in my T8 CV. I can Kill a Player which is Vastly more Skilled than me in his T10 Ship.

 

But as far as what WG is always saying I dont give a Damn to be Honest.

WG also said that Ships that cant defend themselves against Aircraft are a thing of the Past.

And right now there is not a Single Ship in the Game capable of Effectively Defending itself against Aircraft....

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, Sunleader said:

Which basicly Means that CVs are Overpowered and God Mode.

Because right now.

If I am in my T8 CV. I can Kill a Player which is Vastly more Skilled than me in his T10 Ship.

Just like an artillery in tank games?

It's the game design, that a class is able to outrange people and kill them.

Abathur in Heroes of the storm can kill other heroes, without being touched by them. Must be an overpowered character.... or it's a game design with different classes and not a 1vs1 game.

 

In a team game it's irrelevant, if one player can kill another, if he still loses. And by the way, you could do that in RTS as well... were you here in forum and saying that CV is op and godemode as well back then? Just wondering.

 

3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

WG also said that Ships that cant defend themselves against Aircraft are a thing of the Past.

Hmm, I saw this:

7 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I shot down 22 planes in Shima recently I guess AA is op lolol k

 

I also shot down planes with my Ashasio, which would never happen with older AA. So it's kinda true. Or do you mean with Defend - wipe full squads in seconds? Taking damage will be always the thing, no ship is immune to damage

You can use AP even against bow in ships. They will take damage. That doesn't mean every salvo will do damage

But same with CV. He will do damage, but maybe he misses or do only a small hit like a 3k torpedo against a 100k hp BB

 

[veslingr]

Just now, Sunleader said:

 

Which basicly Means that CVs are Overpowered and God Mode.

Because right now.

If I am in my T8 CV. I can Kill a Player which is Vastly more Skilled than me in his T10 Ship.

 

But as far as what WG is always saying I dont give a Damn to be Honest.

WG also said that Ships that cant defend themselves against Aircraft are a thing of the Past.

And right now there is not a Single Ship in the Game capable of Effectively Defending itself against Aircraft....

 

 

i just do not know how did we from 3-5 k dmg with heavyy losses ended on God mode. Than every ship in God Mode becasue it can do 3-5 k dmg to any other ship.....do you know any tx ship that has immunity to some other class of ship? 

 

to "kill" tTx cruiser you need to do 10-15 3-5 k strike on him. It take times, and you will lose your planes.

 

Design of CV gives him some very strong features to be very strong ship.....it is in game 100% of time + it can shift sides of attack constantly...if you die in CV before been last ship alive you did something very very wrong.

 

thats why good players do very good in CVs, it is onkly ship that can attack ANY enemie in bad position and punish it....if you see broadside BBs on 40 km from you you can just be sorry you can not strike it....on CV you strike it.

 

longlivity + able to switch side + good player = very dangerous ship.

 

but Good mode? No. Tomato will flop in CV eaven harder than in HE spaming BBS with zombi heal. 

 

[mtm78]

17 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But same with CV. He will do damage, but maybe he misses or do only a small hit like a 3k torpedo against a 100k hp BB

 

Which is the issue, why do 3k against a BB with significant AAA when you can do the same against other classes with less risk? CV's should have high alpha against battleships, and be less effective against other classes.

 

Sadly this goes against mainstay of players who think this is World of Battleships. 

[Sunleader]

22 minutes ago, veslingr said:

i just do not know how did we from 3-5 k dmg with heavyy losses ended on God mode. Than every ship in God Mode becasue it can do 3-5 k dmg to any other ship.....do you know any tx ship that has immunity to some other class of ship? 

 

to "kill" tTx cruiser you need to do 10-15 3-5 k strike on him. It take times, and you will lose your planes.

 

Design of CV gives him some very strong features to be very strong ship.....it is in game 100% of time + it can shift sides of attack constantly...if you die in CV before been last ship alive you did something very very wrong.

 

thats why good players do very good in CVs, it is onkly ship that can attack ANY enemie in bad position and punish it....if you see broadside BBs on 40 km from you you can just be sorry you can not strike it....on CV you strike it.

 

longlivity + able to switch side + good player = very dangerous ship.

 

but Good mode? No. Tomato will flop in CV eaven harder than in HE spaming BBS with zombi heal. 

 

 

Dont know where you take 3-5k Damage with Heavy Losses.

When I drop a Minotaur 2 Times I can do depending on Squadron. Somethoung about 20-30k Damage to him. And I will lose maybe 5 Planes in that Run.

And Well Mate. Counterquestion. Do you know any T10 Ship that can Attack you from 40km away without any Risk to itself over and over again without anything you can do to make it Stop ? :)

 

The Ability to Attack without Worrying about taking any Damage yourself.

If thats not God Mode. Then what do you think Godmode does ?

 

Design of CV right now makes CVs the Most Overpowered Ship in the Game which Defacto gives you Godmode. Because as you Correctly say. If your not the Last Ship to Die you did Something Wrong.

But at the Same time. If your not the First who Lands an Attack on the Enemy you also did something. Wrong.

Your the Alpha and the Omega of the Match. And basicly. Your a Factor in the Match so Importand. That if you Yolo at the Start of the Match. Your Team will lose 90% of the Time.

 

Thats just how Overpowered this Ship is Right now.

And that is an Double Edged Sword.

Because if a Ship is so Overpowered that 1 Player Alone holds so much Influence in the Battle.

Then not only are all other Players Pissed at you. Because if you mess up they all Lose.

But because your so Influental. You are also in a 1 on 1 against another Ship just as Overpowered as you.

And you have to Win this 1 on 1 for your Team. If you dont. You lose.

 

Which is why Winratios on CVs are so Extremely Different Compared to other Ships.

In another Ship. If you do Bad. Your Influence on the Battle was maybe 5% at best. And your Team can easily make up for you.

But as a CV. If you do Bad. Your influence on the Battle was somewhere around 30-50% and making up for that Requires some Serious Hardcore Unicum Players on your Team or some Serious 10-20 WR Noobs in the other Team.

Hence. Average and Bad Players in a CV. Do 50k and even 100k Average Damage. But still get Winrates of 30-40% while Good Players with almost the same Average Damage get 60-70% Winrate.

 

 

But do you Spot the thing ?

If not thats Fine.

Because most People dont.

 

The Average Damage barely Changes. Because while in every other Ship. If you Suck. You just get Killed and wont really do anything.

In a CV. Even if you Suck. You will easily be able to Farm 50k Damage from some Battleship Player even if he is vastly more Skilled than you.

 

 

And Sorry. But that is not Balanced.

Balanced is when Each Player in the Team has the Same Potential Amount of Influence on the Match Result.

And right now this is not the Case.

Right now as a CV you have as much Potential Influence as a Full Division of BBs which is 2 Tiers above you.

[veslingr]

31 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Dont know where you take 3-5k Damage with Heavy Losses.

When I drop a Minotaur 2 Times I can do depending on Squadron. Somethoung about 20-30k Damage to him. And I will lose maybe 5 Planes in that Run.

And Well Mate. Counterquestion. Do you know any T10 Ship that can Attack you from 40km away without any Risk to itself over and over again without anything you can do to make it Stop ? :)

 

The Ability to Attack without Worrying about taking any Damage yourself.

If thats not God Mode. Then what do you think Godmode does ?

 

Design of CV right now makes CVs the Most Overpowered Ship in the Game which Defacto gives you Godmode. Because as you Correctly say. If your not the Last Ship to Die you did Something Wrong.

But at the Same time. If your not the First who Lands an Attack on the Enemy you also did something. Wrong.

Your the Alpha and the Omega of the Match. And basicly. Your a Factor in the Match so Importand. That if you Yolo at the Start of the Match. Your Team will lose 90% of the Time.

 

Thats just how Overpowered this Ship is Right now.

And that is an Double Edged Sword.

Because if a Ship is so Overpowered that 1 Player Alone holds so much Influence in the Battle.

Then not only are all other Players Pissed at you. Because if you mess up they all Lose.

But because your so Influental. You are also in a 1 on 1 against another Ship just as Overpowered as you.

And you have to Win this 1 on 1 for your Team. If you dont. You lose.

 

Which is why Winratios on CVs are so Extremely Different Compared to other Ships.

In another Ship. If you do Bad. Your Influence on the Battle was maybe 5% at best. And your Team can easily make up for you.

But as a CV. If you do Bad. Your influence on the Battle was somewhere around 30-50% and making up for that Requires some Serious Hardcore Unicum Players on your Team or some Serious 10-20 WR Noobs in the other Team.

Hence. Average and Bad Players in a CV. Do 50k and even 100k Average Damage. But still get Winrates of 30-40% while Good Players with almost the same Average Damage get 60-70% Winrate.

 

 

But do you Spot the thing ?

If not thats Fine.

Because most People dont.

 

The Average Damage barely Changes. Because while in every other Ship. If you Suck. You just get Killed and wont really do anything.

In a CV. Even if you Suck. You will easily be able to Farm 50k Damage from some Battleship Player even if he is vastly more Skilled than you.

 

 

And Sorry. But that is not Balanced.

Balanced is when Each Player in the Team has the Same Potential Amount of Influence on the Match Result.

And right now this is not the Case.

Right now as a CV you have as much Potential Influence as a Full Division of BBs which is 2 Tiers above you.

i would like test first statement in training room (that high alpha) and sorry to say but second part is not how mutiplayer game works. Not all ships and/or classes have same influence by design of them. If yuo look chess not all piaces have same potential on field....but thats why there is only 2 knight/rook 1 queen and much more pawns. 

 

CV in organized gameplay has very very very little dmg potential, even RTS one was only used as spoters.

 

1vs1 cv is strongest ship, but its strengt is as strong as enemie is bed.

 

 

[Profilus]

10 minutes ago, veslingr said:

When I drop a Minotaur 2 Times I can do depending on Squadron. Somethoung about 20-30k Damage to him.

 

10 minutes ago, veslingr said:

i would like test first statement in training room (that high alpha)

Dont test Haku. Totally possible. Dont know about Midway, but Haku manages that even with rockets .

 

edit: it would help if people mention specific cv in their examples.

[mtm78]

9 minutes ago, veslingr said:

If yuo look chess not all piaces have same potential on field....but thats why there is only 2 knight/rook 1 queen and much more pawns. 

 

10 minutes ago, veslingr said:

and sorry to say but second part is not how mutiplayer game works

 

The problem is that Chess is actually a single player game, with a single opponent. 

[veslingr]

18 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

 

The problem is that Chess is actually a single player game, with a single opponent. 

comparison is that different classes have different roles and/or impact in game, and considering that there are less of them per team......figures are players, team commander is in this comparison a chess player....you get the drift

[Sunleader]

11 minutes ago, veslingr said:

i would like test first statement in training room (that high alpha) and sorry to say but second part is not how mutiplayer game works. Not all ships and/or classes have same influence by design of them. If yuo look chess not all piaces have same potential on field....but thats why there is only 2 knight/rook 1 queen and much more pawns. 

 

CV in organized gameplay has very very very little dmg potential, even RTS one was only used as spoters.

 

1vs1 cv is strongest ship, but its strengt is as strong as enemie is bed.

 

 

 

You can Test it in a Training Room. Or you can Simply look at the Data Provided by the Fitting Tool.

Graf Zeppelin. Which is currently the Weakest CV on Tier 8 in terms of Aircraft Attack Power.

Has 14k Potential Damage on his AP Bombs.

13k Potential Damage on his Torpedoes.

And 11k Potential Damage on his Rockets.

 

And no. I am not Talking about the Alpha Damage. I am talking about the Potential Damage.

So the Damage you can actually Do in 1 Drop.

 

For AP Bombs that is the Full 14k Alpha Damage which you get when you do a Double Citadel.

For Torpedoes that is the 16k Alpha Damage Minus about 10% Minimum Torpedo Bulge.

And for Rockets that is 33k Alpha Damage Divided by 3 because Rockets cannot Citadel and thus Deal Maximum 1/3 of the Alpha Damage.

 

 

Feel Free to Test it with your own Lexington.

You actually have an Even Higher Potential Damage for your Torpedoes. Being able to Deal up to 16k with 1 Drop.

Your Bombers come with 18k Potential Damage despite not even being AP Bombers.

And Your Rockets are Capable of a bit over 10k Potential Damage per Drop.

 

 

 

 

And See that is the Problem.

 

Sorry Mate.

But this is not Chess.

 

And you do not get to be the Queen by Picking CV.

Because Guess What. I dont want to be Your Peasant or Knight.

 

In this Game you are not Supposed to be King, Queen and Peasant.

Because guess what. Nobody wants to be the Peasant.

 

In this Game we are Supposed to Players which are Equal.

And the Game is Supposed to be Balanced in a Way. That 1 Player is Worth 1 Player.

 

CVs right now are not worth 1 but 6 Players.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Profilus said:

 

Dont test Haku. Totally possible. Dont know about Midway, but Haku manages that even with rockets .

 

Actually even Shokaku and Graf Zeppelin can do it. So can Enterprise.

Kaga might have some Trouble because her HE Bombs dont Citadel and her Torpedoes are too widespread.

Implacable should be able to do it with Torpedo Bombers. I dont know about Saipan and Lexington as I havnt seen them in Action yet.

 

 

[El2aZeR]

8 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Is that a serious question? If clouds do a significant portion of the overall damage overall the claim “they are useless” is simply wrong. 

 

Except as previously explained the number itself is irrelevant because the players who take damage from flak are as well.

Thus it holds no relevancy to any balancing discussion, hence why flak is useless.

 

You could ofc say that flak is not useless based on its performance against incompetent players but, again, that holds no relevancy to balancing.

 

8 hours ago, Padds01 said:

hes clearly not a pro midway player (and neither am i) so what are we doing wrong? 

 

Flying in a completely straight line with no prediction whatsoever.

 

4 hours ago, veslingr said:

- rework primary wanted to disable good CV players shut down bad CV players and increase numbers of players playing it and that bouth CVs can "have fun" while in RTS if you were aains much better cv you just did not have fun :). And now uniqum in CV can not shut down other guy. Yes he can win games for team but not by blocking other CV. So this part of rework is working as inteded.

 

Except it isn't. Bad players that would previously lose all their aircraft to fighters/AA still lose all their planes.

As such the end result is the same as before. Aka the rework has failed in that regard.

 

4 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Also the CV has way less influence, I'm so often like 5 times more worth then the enemy CV and still lose, because the enemy team in general was better.

 

- Just explained that personal opinions are irrelevant

- Immediately makes a claim based on personal opinion

Remember, if you want people to stop calling you intellectually dishonest, how about you stop being intellectually dishonest?

 

4 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Good player perform way better with the last one, while theere is less of a difference with easy to play champs.

 

This is a blatant lie when you look at the facts. Skilled players perform the same as before while bad players fail even harder.

 

3 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Look for the CC summit presentation. They showed their numbers and how they use them. 

 

I have written a detailed analysis of why that presentation doesn't show the full picture and outright withholds information.

Whether you label it as a "differing opinion" is the actually irrelevant thing here.

 

Although ironically if the presentation is to be believed then the rework is most definitely a failure right now considering current playernumbers in relation to the percentages given.

 

3 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

And you think personal attacks are a good basis for interesting discussions?

 

"Personal attacks", as you call them, are simple facts that expose the true motivation of the person in question.

Though I suppose the discussion indeed becomes less interesting because the credibility of said person no longer exists at that point.

Isn't that right Mr. "CVs unplayable, demand refund"?

 

2 hours ago, veslingr said:

I really relly do not see reason why t8 cv should not be able to do 3-5 k dmg to cruiser with heavyy loses to planes

 

Yeah, "3-5k dmg to cruiser with heavy plane losses" isn't a thing though you know?

 

Try "all their HP with laughable losses", for example:

 

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

In a team game it's irrelevant, if one player can kill another, if he still loses.

 

Wanna know what else shouldn't exist in a team game?

A class that is completely isolated and independent from and whose sole purpose is to do nothing but grief everyone else.

[veslingr]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

 

You can Test it in a Training Room. Or you can Simply look at the Data Provided by the Fitting Tool.

Graf Zeppelin. Which is currently the Weakest CV on Tier 8 in terms of Aircraft Attack Power.

Has 14k Potential Damage on his AP Bombs.

13k Potential Damage on his Torpedoes.

And 11k Potential Damage on his Rockets.

 

And no. I am not Talking about the Alpha Damage. I am talking about the Potential Damage.

So the Damage you can actually Do in 1 Drop.

 

For AP Bombs that is the Full 14k Alpha Damage which you get when you do a Double Citadel.

For Torpedoes that is the 16k Alpha Damage Minus about 10% Minimum Torpedo Bulge.

And for Rockets that is 33k Alpha Damage Divided by 3 because Rockets cannot Citadel and thus Deal Maximum 1/3 of the Alpha Damage.

 

 

Feel Free to Test it with your own Lexington.

You actually have an Even Higher Potential Damage for your Torpedoes. Being able to Deal up to 16k with 1 Drop.

Your Bombers come with 18k Potential Damage despite not even being AP Bombers.

And Your Rockets are Capable of a bit over 10k Potential Damage per Drop.

 

 

 

 

And See that is the Problem.

 

Sorry Mate.

But this is not Chess.

 

And you do not get to be the Queen by Picking CV.

Because Guess What. I dont want to be Your Peasant or Knight.

 

In this Game you are not Supposed to be King, Queen and Peasant.

Because guess what. Nobody wants to be the Peasant.

 

In this Game we are Supposed to Players which are Equal.

And the Game is Supposed to be Balanced in a Way. That 1 Player is Worth 1 Player.

 

CVs right now are not worth 1 but 6 Players.

 

 

 

Actually even Shokaku and Graf Zeppelin can do it. So can Enterprise.

Kaga might have some Trouble because her HE Bombs dont Citadel and her Torpedoes are too widespread.

Implacable should be able to do it with Torpedo Bombers. I dont know about Saipan and Lexington as I havnt seen them in Action yet.

 

 

when you have 4 class you have different roles and strenghts, everbody plays what aou want....one hint, "pesants" and play with them is were you win or lose chess game :)

so pesants are important :)

 

i wonder how many time did you got double citadels in GZ, which is notorious for abmissal bad drops :)

[veslingr]

8 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

 

 

Except it isn't. Bad players that would previously lose all their aircraft to fighters/AA still lose all their planes.

As such the end result is the same as before. Aka the rework has failed in that regard.

 

 

 

 

Try "all their HP with laughable losses", for example:

 

i have screenshot where i fully oneshoted Moskva with Burgogne...on almost 22 km.....how often do you get shots like that and what does it prove?

 

Bad players today do more than bad players before, today enemie CV can not block other CV, it all depends on CV himself..if he is idiot he will ruch cap and died in 3 minutes (true story)....but it had nothing to do with other cv

[El2aZeR]

15 minutes ago, veslingr said:

i have screenshot where i fully oneshoted Moskva.....how often do you get shots like that?

 

And there lies one of the issues with CVs, no?

CVs can consistently  all over surface ships while other classes require a mixture of luck, skill and misplay.

 

Thank you for making my point.

 

15 minutes ago, veslingr said:

Bad players today do more than bad players before

 

If you had bothered to check actual facts you'd know that bad players are actually worse than before.

 

15 minutes ago, veslingr said:

today enemie CV can not block other CV, it all depends on CV himself..if he is idiot he will ruch cap and died in 3 minutes (true story)....but it had nothing to do with other cv

 

However the end result is the same, aka bad CV players still lose all their planes for no/little gain.

As such this does not represent an improvement when compared to the previous situation. In fact because fighters were more limited in capabilities than flak it could even be regarded as worse than before.

[Sunleader]

9 minutes ago, veslingr said:

 

i have screenshot where i fully oneshoted Moskva with Burgogne...on almost 22 km.....how often do you get shots like that and what does it prove?

 

Bad players today do more than bad players before, today enemie CV can not block other CV, it all depends on CV himself..if he is idiot he will ruch cap and died in 3 minutes (true story)....but it had nothing to do with other cv

 

You get these Hits pretty Consistently once you have Learned how to Aim.

And see that is the Thing.

 

You can Onehit a Moskwa that was Stupid enough to Sail Broadside to you for so Long that you could hit it on 22km away with a Full Salvo.

That Moskwa could have done something about this.

It could have Turned out. And on 22km it could actually even have Evaded.

 

But how do you Evade my Rockets ? :)

How to do you Evade my Bombs ?

The only one you can Actually Mitigate is Torpedoes as you can Limit the Surface you Show to me on Dropping.

Well. If I strike you while you can Freely Maneuver that is.

 

 

And Yes Mate.

We are Supposed to have Different Classes.

 

But to use your Chess Example.

We are Supposed to have Knights, Rooks and Bishops.

So Pieces of Roughly Equal Value which can use Different Techniques but are not Inherently Superior.

 

But CV is currently not using a Different Technique. Its Vastly Superior to all other Pieces.

Its basicly a Queen.

 

And Sorry. But that is not Acceptable.

So until CV becomes a Normal Piece instead of Being a Piece Vastly Superior to all others. There will be no Silence in these Forums and CVs will be Facing Toxicity and WG will Face Player Losses.

As Simple as that ;)

[1MajorKoenig]

29 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Except as previously explained the number itself is irrelevant because the players who take damage from flak are as well.

 

Again - unless you can prove that this is indeed the case with some numbers on a global scale it is simply a claim. 

 

33 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I have written a detailed analysis of why that presentation doesn't show the full picture and outright withholds information.

 

Don’t think I have seen your opinion on the summit presentation but maybe I forgot. It’s been a while. Though to Ben honest I can’t image that you agree with it based on your other comments. 

 

36 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Isn't that right Mr. "CVs unplayable, demand refund"?

 

0.8.5 + 0.8.6 where indeed pretty bad versions. Unless - of course - if you want a untouchable auto-win-AA ships and you don’t want to worry about the fact that there is a fourth class in the game. In that case these patches were of course smooth (=easy mode). And yes, in case the premium ships ended up in a totally different place compared to what they were on sales day WG should have offered another round of refund.

 

 

[veslingr]

38 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

And there lies one of the issues with CVs, no?

CVs can consistently  all over surface ships while other classes require a mixture of luck, skill and misplay.

 

Thank you for making my point.

 

 

If you had bothered to check actual facts you'd know that bad players are actually worse than before.

 

 

However the end result is the same, aka bad CV players still lose all their planes for no/little gain.

As such this does not represent an improvement when compared to the previous situation. In fact because fighters were more limited in capabilities than flak it could even be regarded as worse than before.

well good try,but no.....this only proves you can single out one screenshot that does not give real picture. Same as Burgogne does not do 60 k dmg per salvo, Shokaku does not do 55 k with 8 bombs.

Infact average dmg of Shokaku IS SMALLER than your screenshot. (sitting on 52 k)

 

now you have full set of information that clearly shows somethng else than you claim.

 

on other subject, you did not read carefully. I did not say bad players do better now, i only stated, as WG stated, OTHER CV can not shut down you. And it can not.....working as intended by WG

[Pikkozoikum]

2 hours ago, mtm78 said:

 

Which is the issue, why do 3k against a BB with significant AAA when you can do the same against other classes with less risk? CV's should have high alpha against battleships, and be less effective against other classes.

 

Sadly this goes against mainstay of players who think this is World of Battleships. 

I see that different.

From the realistic/logical view a BB has way more protection. Torpedobelts, multilayered decks, and beside that, the size makes the same volume of damage less meaningful. Hitting BB with a bomb could mean like 1% dmg, if it hits nothing important. But if the same bomb would hit, lets say a rowboat, then the rowboat will devasted - 100% dmg.

 

From the game perspective the BBs take more damage in total. They 're slower and larger, thus they receive more hits

 

Just going with the AP bombs, who tend to drop not into the center, but always making a gap in the drop pattern, and the enemy cruiser is so often in this gap, where no bomb hits...

[veslingr]

16 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

You get these Hits pretty Consistently once you have Learned how to Aim.

And see that is the Thing.

 

You can Onehit a Moskwa that was Stupid enough to Sail Broadside to you for so Long that you could hit it on 22km away with a Full Salvo.

That Moskwa could have done something about this.

It could have Turned out. And on 22km it could actually even have Evaded.

 

But how do you Evade my Rockets ? :)

How to do you Evade my Bombs ?

The only one you can Actually Mitigate is Torpedoes as you can Limit the Surface you Show to me on Dropping.

Well. If I strike you while you can Freely Maneuver that is.

 

 

And Yes Mate.

We are Supposed to have Different Classes.

 

But to use your Chess Example.

We are Supposed to have Knights, Rooks and Bishops.

So Pieces of Roughly Equal Value which can use Different Techniques but are not Inherently Superior.

 

But CV is currently not using a Different Technique. Its Vastly Superior to all other Pieces.

Its basicly a Queen.

 

And Sorry. But that is not Acceptable.

So until CV becomes a Normal Piece instead of Being a Piece Vastly Superior to all others. There will be no Silence in these Forums and CVs will be Facing Toxicity and WG will Face Player Losses.

As Simple as that ;)

by playing in team....i almost do not die to cv...ever....why?....ussualy with 2 mates playing in a team..and no, you will not hurtm me hard with 3 AAA on watch....you hunt monkeys siting on A1, or sailing solo who are mostly ussles and canon fooder.

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, veslingr said:

by playing in team....i almost do not die to cv...ever....why?....ussualy with 2 mates playing in a team..and no, you will not hurtm me hard with 3 AAA on watch....you hunt monkeys siting on A1, or sailing solo who are mostly ussles and canon fooder.

Beside that, what you mention:

 

Evade rockets is tough, but depending on ship, lets say as DD:

Deactivate AA. Move towards the rocket planes, if they are already approach you. Rocket planes need a long distance. There is also smoke

Though avoiding rockets from a good player is of course not easy.

 

Evading bombs - show broadside and most bombs will miss. Or Wiggle in the right moment, but this could also end up, that the CV expected that wiggle and give a full hit.

 

 

[El2aZeR]

33 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Again - unless you can prove that this is indeed the case with some numbers on a global scale it is simply a claim. 

 

In lieu of such numbers you could also simply pay attention to various sources.

For example:

Who complains the most about flak? Bad CV players.

Is there evidence out there that proves flak can be dodged no matter the concentration? Yes, there is.

 

To name a few things.

As such it isn't hard to extrapolate against what kind of players flak is effective against.

 

33 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Don’t think I have seen your opinion on the summit presentation but maybe I forgot. It’s been a while. Though to Ben honest I can’t image that you agree with it based on your other comments. 

 

No, primarily due to the lack of information given on sample size and time stamps along with intentionally withheld information such as leaving out the impact of the rework on previous CV players.

Can't actually find the topic tho. Gonna guess it got closed and subsequently deleted.

 

33 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

0.8.5 + 0.8.6 where indeed pretty bad versions. Unless - of course - if you want a untouchable auto-win-AA ships and you don’t want to worry about the fact that there is a fourth class in the game.

 

Except there was no such thing as "untouchable auto-win-AA ships" in 0.8.5 and 0.8.6.

 

29 minutes ago, veslingr said:

well good try,but no.....this only proves you can single out one screenshot that does not give real picture. Same as Burgogne does not do 60 k dmg per salvo, Shokaku does not do 55 k with 8 bombs.

 

Ah, so a larger sample size is required? Well then.

 

Oh, look. Shokaku is actually stronger than before now.

 

29 minutes ago, veslingr said:

on other subject, you did not read carefully. I did not say bad players do better now, i only stated, as WG stated, OTHER CV can not shut down you.

1 hour ago, veslingr said:

Bad players today do more than bad players before

 

It is not smart to lie when information is both publicly available and very recent.

 

21 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Deactivate AA. Move towards the rocket planes, if they are already approach you. Rocket planes need a long distance. There is also smoke

Though avoiding rockets from a good player is of course not easy.

 

How about you be factual and say that it is impossible to avoid rockets from good CV players barring RNG?

In fact why don't you stick to your previous statements of player skill being irrelevant? If both sides play perfectly as the inherent mechanics would insinuate, damage to the DD is inevitable.

 

Stop being intellectually dishonest and jump from one narrative to another.

 

21 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Evading bombs - show broadside and most bombs will miss.

 

Bomb aiming penalty no longer applies when maneuvering. A plane is more maneuverable than a ship.

Do the math.

[veslingr]

12 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

In lieu of such numbers you could also simply pay attention to various sources.

For example:

Who complains the most about flak? Bad CV players.

Is there evidence out there that proves flak can be dodged no matter the concentration? Yes, there is.

 

To name a few things.

As such it isn't hard to extrapolate against what kind of players flak is effective against.

 

 

No, primarily due to the lack of information given on sample size and time stamps along with intentionally withheld information such as leaving out the impact of the rework on previous CV players.

Can't actually find the topic tho. Gonna guess it got closed and subsequently deleted.

 

 

Except there was no such thing as "untouchable auto-win-AA ships" in 0.8.5 and 0.8.6.

 

 

Ah, so a larger sample size is required? Well then.

 

Oh, look. Shokaku is actually stronger than before now.

 

 

It is not smart to lie when information is both publicly available and very recent.

 

 

How about you be factual and say that it is impossible to avoid rockets from good CV players?

In fact why don't you stick to your previous statements of player skill being irrelevant? If both sides play perfectly as the inherent mechanics would insinuate, damage to the DD is inevitable.

 

Stop being intellectually dishonest and jump from one narrative to another.

 

 

Bomb aiming penalty no longer applies when maneuvering. A plane is more maneuverable than a ship.

Do the math.

we were not talking is or isnt Shokaku stronger than before....arnt we?......and shokaku sits on 52 k dmg average. YOu are not larger sample mate.

 

this is larger sample and it shows shokaku WAS STRONGER BEFORE.

 

again good try but not 100% correct. Correct answer is YOU perfomr better in it now while REST performs WORSE. 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

1 minute ago, veslingr said:

and shokaku sits on 52 k dmg average. YOu are not larger sample mate.

 

Except I am.

My performance proves that Shokaku is capable of such performance.

 

As such how bad everyone else is is irrelevant.

[veslingr]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Except I am.

My performance proves that Shokaku is capable of such performance.

 

As such how bad everyone else is is irrelevant.

no idea, what that means in broader picture....i bet somebody out there is doing even better...but again this game is working around average numbers, not the top players not the worst players.

 

in fact it is IRRELEVANT what 1 solo player can do with it.

 

point made here is that cvs in average (only thing important) are dooing 3-5 k dmg per strike, yes sometimes you do 55 k with 8 bomb, same as i sometime did 60+ (would be far more if he had more hp) in one slavo...but that is happening once in 10.000 shot and is statistical error.

 

infact top dmg t8 cv is Saipan with 61 k average, translated to DPM it is 3k dmg per minute, what transpolate to 3-5 k tops from one strike

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, veslingr said:

in fact it is IRRELEVANT what 1 sol player can do with it.

 

No it is not, because top player performance represents the balancing benchmark contrary to popular belief.

Because when it comes to balance player skill is irrelevant.