CV Rework Discussion

[CptBarney]

2 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Wait. Does noone else play her?

Shes not avaliable if im correct, unless she was in ST but no one could be arsed to review her.

 

oh and i saw miss poi on the enemy team today, tried to contest the cap against a maass player poor sod.

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Wait. Does noone else play her?

 

About 1800 battles total according to wows-numbers.

43 players last week according to maplesyrup, with only 3 players in the top 10 having more than 20 battles.

And you outperform all but the very top player by a pretty hefty margin.

[Capra76]

6 hours ago, mcboernester said:

Hooooh? When did this got unpinned? Does that mean the Rework is considered finished?

 

The PT session for 0.8.9 starts tomorrow and the developer notes are here: Developer Bulletin 0.8.9 - no mention of any changes to CV, AA or anything related as far as I can see.

 

Rejoice - Skypox balancing is complete.

 

[eliastion]

23 hours ago, Capra76 said:

 

The PT session for 0.8.9 starts tomorrow and the developer notes are here: Developer Bulletin 0.8.9 - no mention of any changes to CV, AA or anything related as far as I can see.

 

Rejoice - Skypox balancing is complete.

 

Looks like I came just in time after my couple months of break - time to play perfectly balanced CVs (they must be perfectly balanced now, after all that effort, right? )

[CptBarney]

11 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Looks like I came just in time after my couple months of break - time to play perfectly balanced CVs (they must be perfectly balanced now, after all that effort, right? )

Miss hosho be getting nerfs soon.

 

@El2aZeR will she still be op even after having 40 knot torps and worse torp bomber speed?

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

@El2aZeR will she still be op even after having 40 knot torps and worse torp bomber speed?

 

Yes.

TB speed nerf is only on returning planes so that has no impact.

40kn torps doesn't really change anything because they haven't nerfed the arming distance, so time to impact remains the same.

 

Basically WG just wants it to look like they're doing sth when in reality they're doing nothing.

[CptBarney]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Yes.

TB speed nerf is only on returning planes so that has no impact.

40kn torps doesn't really change anything because they haven't nerfed the arming distance, so time to impact remains the same.

 

Basically WG just wants it to look like they're doing sth when in reality they're doing nothing.

Why i am not surprised by this lol? I bet @L0V3_and_PE4CE is happeh about it.

 

Might as well just stick bloody enterprise down at tier 4 at this rate.

[rnat]

13 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Might as well just stick bloody enterprise down at tier 4 at this rate.

And risk not being able to kek on Minotaurs and DMs ?

[Yedwy]

44 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Why i am not surprised by this lol? I bet @L0V3_and_PE4CE is happeh about it.

 

Might as well just stick bloody enterprise down at tier 4 at this rate.

Easy m8 u know Bouge clas CVs acctually carried Wildcats and Avengers, right? 

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

From this thread: https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/120142-cvs-unplayable-demand-refund/?page=5, but to avoid necromancy I'll post here.

 

On 6/28/2019 at 2:44 PM, MrConway said:

 

If that sweet spot doesn't exist we're up crap creek without a paddle  ;)

 

But we do believe that this sweet spot exists and will continue to balance CV's and their interaction so that everyone can have an enjoyable game to play.

Sooooo, 3 months on, no changes to CV/AA for the last two patches and WG are seemingly no further forward in balancing AA than they were under patch 0.8.5.

 

Could we have a paddle update please.

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 4 Stunden, CptBarney sagte:

Why i am not surprised by this lol? I bet @L0V3_and_PE4CE is happeh about it.

 

Might as well just stick bloody enterprise down at tier 4 at this rate.

I could care less of T4 balance. 

Played one Hosho game because I was forced into it. Most boring experience ever. Power means nothing if the targets are helpless and slow. T10 they at least can get difficult to strike due to massive blobs, fighter plane spam of opposite CV, catapult fighters and invisible DFAA clouds catching me off guard. T4? I need 2 minutes to reach my target to just throw my invincible torp planes at the ship which has no existing flak so nothing to worry about to count dmg going up. Could aswell do training room runs with that time wasted there. Economy gains? None. What are the dive bombers for anyway. 40sec torp plane recovery if I even get to lose one. Yeah no thanks. 

[MadBadDave]

I have a query following a revisit to cv land, I preferred it in its RTS form, hated the FPS mode as a cv driver and loathed it in anything else, and still do.   But I thought I’d give it another go, and quite like world of war planes 2, in co -op mode that is, randoms is another matter, as with RTS I used to spot a lot, today I did the same, spotting 11 of the 12 reds (sacrificing a sqn in the process, which revealed cap C was clear of reds and the nearest  was at B, with the bulk at A what did my team mates do, yep at least 4 went to C, some to A and some to B= game lost ‘.  Anyone my questions; why is it as a pilot my planes get shot down with very little effort, and yet as a bote skipper with good AA in a higher tier BB (T8), struggles to take out T6 planes? Why also is that in dreadnought and other poor aa botes I saw copious amounts of cvs, and yet as a cv driver all I see are ships with AA that makes my Alabama and Bismarck look pathetic ?.   Another question why is it when my BB’s get hit by a db’s bombs that they do more damage than a tall boy or being citadelled by a bb , and yet when I drop them dead centre I only score 3k damage?.

 

Time to ditch cvs again, me thinks.

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, MadBadDave said:

Anyone my questions; why is it as a pilot my planes get shot down with very little effort, and yet as a bote skipper with good AA in a higher tier BB (T8), struggles to take out T6 planes?

 

This is probably the question you need to ask yourself:

 

Flak isn't just decorative. You need to dodge/preempt it.

 

1 hour ago, MadBadDave said:

Another question why is it when my BB’s get hit by a db’s bombs that they do more damage than a tall boy or being citadelled by a bb , and yet when I drop them dead centre I only score 3k damage?.

 

AP bombs have actual ballistics now. Whether you score a citadel hit or not can depend on your drop altitude.

[CptBarney]

5 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I could care less of T4 balance. 

Played one Hosho game because I was forced into it. Most boring experience ever. Power means nothing if the targets are helpless and slow. T10 they at least can get difficult to strike due to massive blobs, fighter plane spam of opposite CV, catapult fighters and invisible DFAA clouds catching me off guard. T4? I need 2 minutes to reach my target to just throw my invincible torp planes at the ship which has no existing flak so nothing to worry about to count dmg going up. Could aswell do training room runs with that time wasted there. Economy gains? None. What are the dive bombers for anyway. 40sec torp plane recovery if I even get to lose one. Yeah no thanks. 

They aren't that slow, only takes around 30-50 secs to strike with most of the planes depending on how far away you are and the target itself. I find higher tier games more boring than lower tiers as everyone tends to camp (and mostly not always in a good way), although i prefer non cv higher tier gameplay though. idk ijn ap bombers seem trash anyways, the only real decent plane they have are torpedo bombers, i even dislike lexingtons HE bombers because of the piss poor rng they recieve meaning hitting anything that isn't a BB is usually a waste of time.

 

I sometimes find it takes just as long to strike a target at higher tiers sometimes, as it does at lower tiers. But mainly due to the fact that there is more to deal with in general, lower tiers you only have to worry about tier 5 AA ships and a few tier 4 ships (they still puff out flak so you still need to dodge).

 

Also if you screw up lower tier balance then that means less players, so less games, less money, game dies out quicker essentially.

 

Got 3 of my friends to try out world of warships all of them quit at tier 4 after getting basically shat on by hosho's and i even told them that the nerf doesn't really change all that much, they just went on to play black desert online instead.

[MadBadDave]

5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

This is probably the question you need to ask yourself:

 

Flak isn't just decorative. You need to dodge/preempt it.

 

 

AP bombs have actual ballistics now. Whether you score a citadel hit or not can depend on your drop altitude.

I do approach with caution, avoid ships known to have better AA, do dodge and weave do speed boost when attacking, when pulling away for another run, makes no difference I lose almost all the sqn.

 

I do land citadels with dB, but as mentioned while I’ve had a 3/4 hp Shiny detonated, twice, thanks to db’s. I knock off 3000 in a dB.

 

The other problem is my fault, I hate cvs that hide (no counter play), and I do move forward staying behind the fleet, less time on target, but despite reading the situation and moving instead of camping on the edge of the map I do end up getting sunk.

 

And the above scenario where I sacrificed a sqn to spot and yet team mates didn’t react to it, by not looking at mini map 

 

Yes I should improve but can you explain why T6’s get thru my T8 AA bubble and yet my T4 planes struggle against T3 botes?.

 

As a bb cvs really do frustrate me and playing as one they frustrate me even more; the constant availability of planes, and ease/speed of switching plane types, and yet quite often unless you the captain skill you have to wait over 20 seconds to switch between ap and he, or a minute plus to launch torps from a DD. And then you come to counter  play, e.g how often does an actual cv come across a dakka he cruiser, hidden on the edge of the map, probably right at the end of the game, not 30 seconds in.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

@CptBarney

 

There is literally 0 challenge in playing CV low tier atm. It's not even remotely the same as it was pre rework t4-t5. 

All you do is spam the same crap against completely helpless targets. In a CV you don't care if they camp or not. You attack and aim to strike for as much dmg as possible. 

 

High tier Bombers can hit hard consistently if you learn and practice how to approach targets. Also in high tiers its less likely to get people who don't know how to take evasive maneuvers. You learn a lot more about how the game is played in all classes there since you can spot the difference between good and bad play in a CV more easily and learn what does and doesnt work. On the side you get nice economy. 

 

Tier 4 offers literally nothing. Stale gameplay against newbs who don't know better and then brag about being Abe to do 100k against those because everything else is to demanding.

 

Go back to Lexington or better, Midway and learn how to properly use them instead of derping around in lower tiers wasting your time against targets that might aswell be bots. Shokaku and Hakuryo DBs are excellent if you know how to use them btw. Just got to commit and learn. 

[CptBarney]

5 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

@CptBarney

 

There is literally 0 challenge in playing CV low tier atm. It's not even remotely the same as it was pre rework t4-t5. 

except for bad teams of course.

5 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

All you do is spam the same crap against completely helpless targets. In a CV you don't care if they camp or not. You attack and aim to strike for as much dmg as possible. 

not possible when you bottom tier and they group up together, thats how i manage to lose most of my planes and do less than 60k damage in total.

5 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

 

High tier Bombers can hit hard consistently if you learn and practice how to approach targets. Also in high tiers its less likely to get people who don't know how to take evasive maneuvers. You learn a lot more about how the game is played in all classes there since you can spot the difference between good and bad play in a CV more easily and learn what does and doesnt work. On the side you get nice economy. 

that doesn't seem to be the case, most players i drop on seem to turn around the 4km mark making dropping on them even more difficult, i usually get at least 1 bomb dropped on them and sometimes i might drop decently enough but rng decides to hit everywhere but the ship, i mean i have dropped and penned with all 6 bombs but thats few and far between.

 

5 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

 

Tier 4 offers literally nothing. Stale gameplay against newbs who don't know better and then brag about being Abe to do 100k against those because everything else is to demanding.

managed 100k without the two torps, her torp bombers were actually alright before hand.

 

5 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

 

Go back to Lexington or better, Midway and learn how to properly use them instead of derping around in lower tiers wasting your time against targets that might aswell be bots. Shokaku and Hakuryo DBs are excellent if you know how to use them btw. Just got to commit and learn. 

I would if losing games where im in tier 10 and do 130k+ and same for top tier becomes less common, also isn't midway considered braindead? I dont just focus on bb's as well i try to aim to kill dd's but turn time on the fighters makes that a chore in it self unless they turn broadside on rather than bow or aft on.

 

I know what your saying but assuming striking targets is as easy as you say then i would easily managed 150k+ like i did before, idk what teams you face but they seem to have their head up their arses, because i seem to face players that use the sector thing, pop fighters and also turn to avoid my strikes in general and because lexington has dodgy rng on her bombs and horrible aim time on her torp bombers striking gets that more difficult.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

It's the right environment to get better. I feel comfortable because I play there when I play. I felt comfortable in 8.5 and 8.6 too.... 

These games happen, so what? Sometimes I kill all DD's on the enemy team and my team manages to lose it's random battles nothing one can do about it. You have losses in T4, you have them in T10. 

But you for sure get more value out of your time and more challenge playing T8-T10 and learn much more 

 

Practice how to predict evasive maneuvers and make your approach match them. You will have the full ship in your aiming reticle after some practice. Also @Rose_Dikinson posted a nice picture on how to aim for DD's when dropping HE bombs. That picture applies to all ships. 

 

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, MadBadDave said:

I do approach with caution, avoid ships known to have better AA, do dodge and weave do speed boost when attacking, when pulling away for another run, makes no difference I lose almost all the sqn.

 

I do land citadels with dB, but as mentioned while I’ve had a 3/4 hp Shiny detonated, twice, thanks to db’s. I knock off 3000 in a dB.

 

The other problem is my fault, I hate cvs that hide (no counter play), and I do move forward staying behind the fleet, less time on target, but despite reading the situation and moving instead of camping on the edge of the map I do end up getting sunk.

 

And the above scenario where I sacrificed a sqn to spot and yet team mates didn’t react to it, by not looking at mini map 

 

Yes I should improve but can you explain why T6’s get thru my T8 AA bubble and yet my T4 planes struggle against T3 botes?.

1. Ships with good AA are nowdays often not the same ships that were in RTS era ans there were changes even during rework, you need to read up on tr specs and/or practice more...

 

2. Becouse he cits you while you dont do it, you need to practice more to see what altutude will get you best results with a given cv vs a given target...

 

3. Sounds as you dont read the situation properly of you get sunk alot, IMO there are few good positions on every map for a cv to park there so its protected from incoming long range fire and is reasonably close to action, if you insist on roaming around you better pay close attention to the map and its not always easy while flying around...

 

4. Becouse they practiced, and practiced and practiced some more...

[Panocek]

8 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I could care less of T4 balance. 

Played one Hosho game because I was forced into it. Most boring experience ever. Power means nothing if the targets are helpless and slow. T10 they at least can get difficult to strike due to massive blobs, fighter plane spam of opposite CV, catapult fighters and invisible DFAA clouds catching me off guard. T4? I need 2 minutes to reach my target to just throw my invincible torp planes at the ship which has no existing flak so nothing to worry about to count dmg going up. Could aswell do training room runs with that time wasted there. Economy gains? None. What are the dive bombers for anyway. 40sec torp plane recovery if I even get to lose one. Yeah no thanks. 

Were you not having fun

[CptBarney]

@L0V3_and_PE4CE

 pics didnt load, guess i can into miss hosho forevah!

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 24 Minuten, CptBarney sagte:

@L0V3_and_PE4CE

 pics didnt load, guess i can into miss hosho forevah!

 

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

 

 

Spoiler

(not related to image above) Happy i got 130k in smoll tier 10 game, lost doe xD

 

[Yedwy]

In the light of the current lowtier situation an all I say we need to have a premium Bouge at T4 for US and RN lines carrying 6/6/6 (9/9/9) double dropping per run loadouts with Wildcats/Avengers and Seafires/Swordfish respectively, AP bombs ofc... 

[CptBarney]

boooogue!

 

I wonder what the russian cv's will be loike? Unless wargaming does a sneaky and adds in flying croissants or supersonic spagehetti first.

 

@L0V3_and_PE4CE wot do ya think?

 

'w'