CV Rework Discussion

[DFens_666]

1 hour ago, mtm78 said:

Sudden skill increase with carriers

 

Should tell WG about it, thats their definition of skill gap

They probably would twist the words around anyway, so meh....

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

15 hours ago, mtm78 said:

Well that explains REEwork. 

 

Also makes me glad I left ST.

 

Stop spreading [edited], Grozovoi was AA specced and I still had no counterplay options AT ALL.. can you READ? NO COUNTER PLAY OPTIONS AT ALL. Rocket planes WILL HIT YOU, you can try turning into them to minimize dmg but that's it. Death by a 1000 cuts, and NOTHING YOU CAN DO AT ALL. I spend minutes sailing around, with the CV constantly sending planes to me keeping me spotted and attacking me. 

 

Just what the BBabies were crying about for years resulting in the crap game we got now even when they actually had those counterplay options ( stay with cruisers, don't be a yolo solo 'player' and come cry you got dev struck ). And then WG shows why I had to leave ST, with you coming here spreading that absolute horse crap about Grozovoi vs Enterprise being a farm fest WITH NO COUNTERPLAY OPTIONS AT ALL but it is 'crying' because 'I need to spec for AA'. Who do you think you are that you know how my destroyer was specced? All AA modules mounted and no BFT but still had AFT on the captain. Could be more AA spec yes, if I give up all skills related to actually being a destroyer. 

 

No crying, just FACTS. Tell me what my counter play options are mister supertester, as you probably are the kind which said REEwork is working as intended right, protecting the battleships from being devstruck and making destroyer gameplay more toxic. Trying to show off games in a Kidd against some probably bad player letting his planes get farmed by smoked up Kidd, and using that to claim 'you are all crying, you just need to spec AA' 

 

Disgusting coming in here like that accusing people of not understanding the game. You think because you are allowed access to test ships you suddenly understand the game better? Don't make me laugh that''s sadly not how it works or I would still be where you are now. Or probably not, since the direction this game seems to be going is just sad. 

 

Alright you can shame me personaly as much as you want but apperently you are currently a bit going of track.

"Just because i'm a supertester" That has nothing to do with my statment but hey if i say something = Supertester RIGHT!???!??! Are you kidding me now? I can not state my own view point without getting shamed about Supertester????? WOW

 

"NO COUNTER PLAY OPTIONS AT ALL" So what do you want? Do you want AA to be strong enough that you don't even need to spec in it and then melt down all planes by only looking at it? Wow and you did play probably some CW after the REEEEWORK right? oh wait you did not.

 

"No crying, just FACTS" say's the guy who cries without facts to back it up. IF you want to give me FACTS then prove them please. Just because you feel like you did nothing then be it like that but in my opinion i would have been happy to just protect my team from CV player's. Don't come me with RTS was better because that is total BS btw.

 

"Who do you think you are that you know how my destroyer was specced?" In fact i don't know how you spec your DD's but apparently being in a discussion you need to be attacking me  because i'm trying to give a counter Argument but hey if i have a complett different opinion then any one else than yeah lets attack him. 

 

"Disgusting coming in here like that accusing people of not understanding the game. You think because you are allowed access to test ships you suddenly understand the game better?" Oh really you believe it's fine to accuses someone who finds it not okay always to cry about it to call him Disgusting and that i don't understand the game better? WOW you are soo self centered about it that it is in fact pretty funny. Who are you then to talk about it like you know everything? I can only see 2 FACTS about you. You believe that CV is op because you where stopped by a CV the hole time because you played probably aggressivly or not with your team. The Secound FACT is you don't even play CV in the first place and you talk like it is easy to do what you want. 

 

IF you want to have a WAR about FACTS then go ahead. IN FACT CV OVERALL HAVE A LOWER WINRATE THEN THE SOO PER SAY QONC. The winrate on CV's are lower then most ships. The average DMG is not even on paar with most T10 BB's and here we go again because those states where taken aswell from 0.8.0 when the where undoubtle broken BUT WHATEVER. If someone gets hit by something the don't like we need to complain about it on the forum's instead of giving CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK! Where is you CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK then? GO AHEAD MISTER I DONT PLAY CV????? 

 

Here btw is a screenshout so you dont even need to bother looking it up!

[Sunleader]

56 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

 

I am not going to read the entire discussion you 2 had. And I dont like butting in like this when you guys are ranting at each other.

 

But something there Bugs me.

 

A.

Most of the People in this Topic which say that AA is useless and that CVs are Overpowered are actually CV Players.

Good ones at that.

 

Which have Repeatedly Posted Replays proving their Claims.

 

So do me a Favor and dont try to make it look like this is just some people Crying about being Killed by CVs...

 

B.

Ships are ALWAYS matched against a Ship of the same Class.

CV WR therefore says absolutely nothing about how Broken they are.

Because you ALWAYS have the same Number of CVs on each Team.

 

CVs could basicly Drop Tactical Nukes and each Game could end with CV on Team A having 12 Kills and CV on Team B having 11 Kills.

But CV WR would still not go any higher than the other classes.

 

In Fact they might even drop lower because Draws are counted as Loss.

And as mutual destruction would make Draws more Likely CVs would likely drop in Winrate compared to other Classes due to having mire Draws...

 

 

Thanks in Advance.

[B051LjKo]

12 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Most of the People in this Topic which say that AA is useless and that CVs are Overpowered are actually CV Players.

Good ones at that.

Well, I am a CV player, a potato, but I suppose a good potato, and I do not think AA is useless, it still works pretty well.

Quote

 

Which have Repeatedly Posted Replays proving their Claims.

 

So do me a Favor and dont try to make it look like this is just some people Crying about being Killed by CVs...

Well, the fact is, a lot, and I mean a lot of them do exactly that, cry because all of a sudden they can not go undetected all over the map

 

BTW. Just had a few CV games to see where all the fuss is, and I do not get it. Sure I did get some good numbers, but it took a lot of effort. My planes were still falling down, you can not attack the blobs and get away for free (at least not in Saipan), and Kidd... who ever sai Kidd is crippled lied. It is still an AA monster.

 

And those who claim that rockets can not be dodged... well at least TinyTims can.

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Well, I am a CV player, a potato, but I suppose a good potato, and I do not think AA is useless, it still works pretty well.

Well, the fact is, a lot, and I mean a lot of them do exactly that, cry because all of a sudden they can not go undetected all over the map

 

BTW. Just had a few CV games to see where all the fuss is, and I do not get it. Sure I did get some good numbers, but it took a lot of effort. My planes were still falling down, you can not attack the blobs and get away for free (at least not in Saipan), and Kidd... who ever sai Kidd is crippled lied. It is still an AA monster.

 

And those who claim that rockets can not be dodged... well at least TinyTims can.

 

1.

You just said yourself that your a Potato....

 

2.

So your saying that @L0V3_and_PE4CE@El2aZeR

As well as me are just DD Players crying about CVs ?

 

Erm Yeah...

No Offense but I think I can safely refrain from bothering with your claims there.

 

I dont think even the most Stupid Person on this Planet would take you seriously on that one Mate....

[B051LjKo]

30 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

1.

You just said yourself that your a Potato....

What is wrong with being a potato. It is better to be king of the potato hill, then scrubbing toilets in the unicum lounge.

30 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

2.

So your saying that @L0V3_and_PE4CE@El2aZeR

As well as me are just DD Players crying about CVs ?

Nope, just that there is a lot of whiners complaining about having to AA spec their vessels. ''OMG My suitability spec BB did not melt down the squad before it dropped on me, CVs are so OP''

30 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Erm Yeah...

No Offense but I think I can safely refrain from bothering with your claims there.

 

I dont think even the most Stupid Person on this Planet would take you seriously on that one Mate....

Let us all face it, it is a L2P issue. Before you could set your priority sector and forget about CVs. Now it actually takes some skill and effort to manage AA and dodge the attacks. The sooner players realize that, the better.

[Sunleader]

17 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

What is wrong with being a potato. It is better to be king of the potato hill, then scrubbing toilets in the unicum lounge.

Nope, just that there is a lot of whiners complaining about having to AA spec their vessels. ''OMG My suitability spec BB did not melt down the squad before it dropped on me, CVs are so OP''

Let us all face it, it is a L2P issue. Before you could set your priority sector and forget about CVs. Now it actually takes some skill and effort to manage AA and dodge the attacks. The sooner players realize that, the better.

 

1.

Nothing. But it Defeats your own Argument.

2.

But you just said it :)

3.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

Yeah. Super Skill based 3.5% Damage xD

 

And No.

Sorry. But AA Management takes no Skill.

Unlike before where you had to keep your Sector in Place.

Now you just Press a Button with no effort at all xD

 

Not that it actually matters.

The extra Damage from using that System is so Neglectable that Ignoring the System alltogether makes no real Difference. ^^

 

 

But thanks for the Lols

Your on a Spree today with making Silly Jokes like this ^^

 

 

Oh but do me one Favor.

Pls Stop Blaming others for your Lack of Skill in Properly Aiming Attack Runs.

CV Attacks cannot be Dodged.

The Only one Responsible for you missing is you yourself.

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

54 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

So your saying that @L0V3_and_PE4CE@El2aZeR

As well as me are just DD Players crying about CVs ?

Says the guy who is a potato in every class except CV.... GO [edited]figure.

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

A.

Most of the People in this Topic which say that AA is useless and that CVs are Overpowered are actually CV Players.

Good ones at that.

 

Which have Repeatedly Posted Replays proving their Claims.

 

So do me a Favor and dont try to make it look like this is just some people Crying about being Killed by CVs...

Well first of all Regarding your claim of most people are CV player's no the are not. 

IN FACT THERE IS COMEN TRAITE here Ether the play CV's and cry me river about RTS being gone. OR we have people never touching T8 CV or higher and whine about CV's being OP.

 

I will repeat once again just because of SUNLEADER since you love counter argue about the most mandain bs ever. I THINK CV's are not COMPLETTLY there yet. The need to be tweekt but what do i read here? BLA BLA LBA WHINE WHINE WHINE and nothing of relevance. If you believe your input in regards of balancing stuff fair enough. LETS get to it but just whining and telling people who believe that it is right now in the right direction to just shut up then i'm sorry but i believe that is just sooo bloody arogant.

 

IF you want we can have a talk in discord what ever so you can prove me the point or i can. if you want to.

[Sunleader]

5 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

Says the guy who is a potato in every class except CV.... GO [edited]figure.

 

Well first of all Regarding your claim of most people are CV player's no the are not. 

IN FACT THERE IS COMEN TRAITE here Ether the play CV's and cry me river about RTS being gone. OR we have people never touching T8 CV or higher and whine about CV's being OP.

 

I will repeat once again just because of SUNLEADER since you love counter argue about the most mandain bs ever. I THINK CV's are not COMPLETTLY there yet. The need to be tweekt but what do i read here? BLA BLA LBA WHINE WHINE WHINE and nothing of relevance. If you believe your input in regards of balancing stuff fair enough. LETS get to it but just whining and telling people who believe that it is right now in the right direction to just shut up then i'm sorry but i believe that is just sooo bloody arogant.

 

IF you want we can have a talk in discord what ever so you can prove me the point or i can. if you want to.

 

1.

Actually that is Wrong.

I am not Potato in all Classes other than CVs.

Its just that CVs are so Overpowered right now that I just dont suck enough to be Potato in them.

2.

Thats a very Selective Perception you got there ^^

And No.

Sorry but I think there is exactly ONE Person who misses RTS and thats solely because he says it was Broken as well but he saw a chance to fix it :P

As for not Touching T8 or higher.

I dont even know one to be honest.

All of us here saying CVs are OP mostly use T8 CVs and do have T10 CVs.

3.

I am just Correcting some BS Claims you made.

Dont Complain to me about this.

If you dont to be Corrected dont post BS like CV Winrate lol.

4.

As for Ways Forward.

 

No Offense. But Siggestion would just be Buried in Massive Topics like this one.

So I will keep the Suggestions Seperate ;)

 

 

 

Oh and No.

Even in the Forum your already yelling and screaming way too much.

Not going to endanger my ears by going into voicechat with some getting ragefits this fast.

[B051LjKo]

10 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

1.

Actually that is Wrong.

I am not Potato in all Classes other than CVs.

Its just that CVs are so Overpowered right now that I just dont suck enough to be Potato in them.

So how would you describe your 40ish% Win rate in GK, Z52, Bismarck and the Hipper then chronical potatoizm?

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

5 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

1.

Actually that is Wrong.

I am not Potato in all Classes other than CVs.

Its just that CVs are so Overpowered right now that I just dont suck enough to be Potato in them.

Well Sorry but i play every class in the game and even if there is a CV i dont really care about them because in my Eye's the are not a big threat. Saying that now is like every class totally bad with a CV in the game is not really accurate. I still melt people down. I still don't care if the CV is striking me etc... I looked at your stats and i need to say yeah not that good to be honest.

 

7 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

2.

Thats a very Selective Perception you got there ^^

And No.

Sorry but I think there is exactly ONE Person who misses RTS and thats solely because he says it was Broken as well but he saw a chance to fix it :P

As for not Touching T8 or higher.

I dont even know one to be honest.

All of us here saying CVs are OP mostly use T8 CVs and do have T10 CVs.

Do i need to name people? I can tell you right of the batt 2 people. The one i had an argument with called mtm and Capra.

There we go. You have 2 people. IF you want me to name even more i can go ahead.

 

9 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

3.

I am just Correcting some BS Claims you made.

Dont Complain to me about this.

If you dont to be Corrected dont post BS like CV Winrate lol.

Okay apperently i'm BSing but other guy's say like: 

"Conq is fine because he winrate is not that good" Well i look at the winrate of CV and the are worse.

I look at average of the ships in t10 and CV's get worse.

Apperently stats are not a fundamental Claim. Okay so why then do other people talk about stats the hole time again?

11 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

4.

As for Ways Forward.

I actual took my time just now and read your post. It is a pretty interesting to balance CV's. It is a nice way but it would need testing. The concept of itself maybe or maybe not will work depends.

 

13 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Oh and No.

Even in the Forum your already yelling and screaming way too much.

Not going to endanger my ears by going into voicechat with some getting ragefits this fast.

In regards of me yelling. I'm sorry but i'm not like that at all but what ever. I'm open to other peoples viewpoint most of the time but i just dont feel alright especially with mtm if you would have read. Because he was shaming in regards of me being a ST.

What makes no sense in regards of voicing my own opinion here in this thread. Otherwise i'm just a normal chilled guy who just enjoys playing World of Warships.

It would have cool if we could have talked about but fair enough it's up to you.

[B051LjKo]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

1.

Nothing. But it Defeats your own Argument.

2.

But you just said it :)

So potatos are not allowed to state an opinion? Why are you so against your own kind?

Quote

3.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

Yeah. Super Skill based 3.5% Damage xD

 

And No.

Sorry. But AA Management takes no Skill.

Unlike before where you had to keep your Sector in Place.

Now you just Press a Button with no effort at all xD

Yes, turn left, set priority sector right took huge effort in ''keeping Sector in Place''. Now it is different you have to aim the AAA, watch the distance, fire the priority sector at the right time, manouver, watch for the cooldown, fire it again. Much, much more interactive gameplay then just stupit ''Set the Sector for Max dps''. If it is to complicated for you to use that is another story.

Quote

Not that it actually matters.

The extra Damage from using that System is so Neglectable that Ignoring the System alltogether makes no real Difference. ^^

I think it works great.

Quote

Oh but do me one Favor.

Pls Stop Blaming others for your Lack of Skill in Properly Aiming Attack Runs.

CV Attacks cannot be Dodged.

The Only one Responsible for you missing is you yourself.

I am not blaming others, I am praising them for excellent sailing and dodging my ordnance of doom. 

[Sunleader]

58 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

So how would you describe your 40ish% Win rate in GK, Z52, Bismarck and the Hipper then chronical potatoizm?

 

Mate.

Read my Statement again.

 

I said. Its not that I am Potato in all Classes BUT CV.

It is that CVs are so Overpowered that THEY ARE THE ONLY CLASS WHERE I DO NOT SUCK ENOUGH TO BE POTATO IN IT. :)

 

In case you do not Understand this kind of Indirect Statement.

It basicly Translates to.

 

"I would be Potato in ALL Classes if CVs were not so Overpowered that you dont need any Skill in them to not look like a Potato" :)"

 

53 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

Well Sorry but i play every class in the game and even if there is a CV i dont really care about them because in my Eye's the are not a big threat. Saying that now is like every class totally bad with a CV in the game is not really accurate. I still melt people down. I still don't care if the CV is striking me etc... I looked at your stats and i need to say yeah not that good to be honest.

 

Do i need to name people? I can tell you right of the batt 2 people. The one i had an argument with called mtm and Capra.

There we go. You have 2 people. IF you want me to name even more i can go ahead.

 

Okay apperently i'm BSing but other guy's say like: 

"Conq is fine because he winrate is not that good" Well i look at the winrate of CV and the are worse.

I look at average of the ships in t10 and CV's get worse.

Apperently stats are not a fundamental Claim. Okay so why then do other people talk about stats the hole time again?

I actual took my time just now and read your post. It is a pretty interesting to balance CV's. It is a nice way but it would need testing. The concept of itself maybe or maybe not will work depends.

 

In regards of me yelling. I'm sorry but i'm not like that at all but what ever. I'm open to other peoples viewpoint most of the time but i just dont feel alright especially with mtm if you would have read. Because he was shaming in regards of me being a ST.

What makes no sense in regards of voicing my own opinion here in this thread. Otherwise i'm just a normal chilled guy who just enjoys playing World of Warships.

It would have cool if we could have talked about but fair enough it's up to you.

 

1.

Your Stats tell a Different Story. Because just like everyone else. You got Better Stats in CVs than in your other Classes.

But hey Yeah why be Honest when you can be Loud and Insulting right ^^

2.

Oh and where did mtm want RTS back ?

Meanwhile Capra seems to be more Concerned with BB AA than with anything you mentioned :)

3.

Yep. You are talking BS. Pls dont do it.

And Yes. We really have enough People doing that in other Topics as well. Thank You. No Reason to Copy them. :P

As for Stats. Oh not at all. Stats can be a very Fundamental Claim. Just not when you Bring Stats which are not Relevant to the Topic.

And The Winrate for a Class is always 49.X% Because every Victory for a Ship of that Class is Automaticly also a Loss for a Ship of that Class. Meaning the only reason it Diverts from exactly 50% is Draws and Latenight MM where the MM simply lacked the People to make a Proper Match and you then end with BS like 3xT8 CVs and 2 DDs vs 2xT8 and 1xT6 CVs with 1 BB and 1 DD...

If you want to Talk Statistics I am all Ears. But Winrate for a Class is just not really meaningful to Talk about.

4.

Well of Course it would need Testing. After all it would be a Somewhat New System. I am also Sure it would take Further Adjustments than just this. After all if Surface Ships Suddenly get a Chance to Dodge Attacks the Damage Nerf to CVs might end up making them Useless. Hence it could for example be Required to also Buff Damage of CVs again. So that the Attacks they Succesfully Land actually Deal Proper Damage.

But thats something we wont know more about till WG gives it a Try. Assuming they ever do give it a Try.

5.

I butted Heads with mtm before. As I said I did not Intend to mix into that. I really was Limiting my Case to the Points Above.

First being that most of us who are Regular in this Topic are actually NOT DD Players Complaining here. Because they really are not. In Fact several of the Players here which are now on our Side. Are CV Players which were Defending CVs at First but got Turned around due to Others and Me Showing them in Replays and Training Rooms how things work and why CVs are Overpowered. 

That and the other thing that WR really Says nothing about Class Performance.

 

 

38 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

So potatos are not allowed to state an opinion? Why are you so against your own kind?

Yes, turn left, set priority sector right took huge effort in ''keeping Sector in Place''. Now it is different you have to aim the AAA, watch the distance, fire the priority sector at the right time, manouver, watch for the cooldown, fire it again. Much, much more interactive gameplay then just stupit ''Set the Sector for Max dps''. If it is to complicated for you to use that is another story.

I think it works great.

I am not blaming others, I am praising them for excellent sailing and dodging my ordnance of doom. 

 

1.

Of course we are allowed to have an Opinion. :)

But my Statement was that there is Several Good CV Players here Saying CVs are Overpowered.

So you as someone calling himself a Potato in CVs are not Challenging that Statement :)

2.

Actually you dont lol. When your AA Fires you just Press O in the rough Direction of the Marker. Or you just Ignore it Actually. Because it really makes no Difference. No Aiming Required. I guess you can make a Game out of it and Try to Aim for the Aircraft. But you dont need to Actually. You just need to Press O while either looking Left or Right for it to work. You actually Aiming for or even Seeing the Incoming Aircraft is Irrelevant to this.

Not that I expect you to know this cause you clearly want this System to be Useless and thus of course would not Notice such things ^^.

Compared to that. If you didnt Pay Attention in the Old System. You ended up having the Sector on the Wrong Side and then Needed 12 Seconds to actually put it to the Side of the Enemy.

By which Time he might have Switched Sides again and leaving you Naked.

3.

Of course you Think it Works Great :)

You according to your Statement. Are a Potato CV. So for you it is absolutely Great when AA is Useless. :)

In Fact if they Remove AA from Ships so you Could Bomb without any Opposition at all. You would likely consider that Great as well :)

Thing is. The People who got to Put up with this Bullcrab dont Find it Great at all. Because Nobody wants to be the Turkey in a Turkey Shoot.

4.

Nope. Your just Blaming them for your own Lack of Skill :)

The only one Responsible for Hitting with CV Attacks. Is the CV himself.

If you Miss with CV Attacks. Then YOU DID IT WRONG :)

As Simple as that :)

[MAD_3R_Marauder]

6 hours ago, mtm78 said:

And just to leave this here ->

 

Total succes. Sudden skill increase with carriers just as bad, BB's got easier to play, destroyers got harder to play, and 

Just throwing this in here

 

 

[MAD_3R_Marauder]

7 hours ago, mtm78 said:

 

 

Triple post, sorry bout that

[MAD_3R_Marauder]

7 hours ago, mtm78 said:

 

 

 

 

Triple post, and I don't seem to be able to delete the post nor the vid

[Sunleader]

9 minutes ago, MAD_3R_Marauder said:

 

 

 

Triple post, and I don't seem to be able to delete the post nor the vid

 

 

If he thinks thats a Result telling how OP CVs are.

Take a Game from me in T8.

 

Do you know what kind of Roflstomping it is when your Top Tier as a CV right now ?

 

https://replayswows.com/replay/62110#stats

[B051LjKo]

50 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

4.

Nope. Your just Blaming them for your own Lack of Skill :)

The only one Responsible for Hitting with CV Attacks. Is the CV himself.

If you Miss with CV Attacks. Then YOU DID IT WRONG :)

As Simple as that :)

Lack of skill? How do you mean lack of skill? Just because I am a potato, does not mean I am not skilled. Just checked the scoreboards on Saipan (my most played carrier, I find it challenging as it is very demanding to play due to small air wing) and if I take the players with at least 200 games in it, I lead the scoreboards in PR and DMG, have second best WR (trailing by 0.15% behind the first one ) and fourth best FR (trailing by 0.05) and you are telling me that I have no skill.

 

I am telling you that it is perfectly possible to dodge the attack (as I am sailing around in DDs when not in a CV), and your answer is that I am blaming others for lack of skill! I must say I do not understand your arguments. How is it possible to lead the scoreboard with no skill?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

How Sunleader wins an argument:

 

He blapps you with a huge wall of text every time. 

 

 

But seriously. I still don't agree with "if CV weren't brain dead easy to play I would be a potato in them too".

 

Your affinity towards CV class would be the culprit. Why aren't other potatoes performing as well as CV as you do @Sunleader?

You need to stop looking at yourself all the time and look at that potato CV on the enemy team with his 40% winrate that gives you an easy time in the dmg race. 

You won't have your purple stats with me or El2a on the enemy team for example and certainly would get neutered by a simple 50% winrate CV player because even those can sometimes generate just enough impact for your team to absolutely kill the game for you. 

 

Also yes Sunleader. The potato Avatar has good points. Saipan is a special CV under the current t8 prems and performing well in such a CV takes alot of effort. 

 

CV are only powerful in the right players control. Anywhere else they are just a gimmick I don't care about while playing surface ships. Have I ever encountered a CV that gave me trouble as a surface ship? No. Why? Because there are so many terrible players. 

[mtm78]

6 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

I can not state my own view point

 

So that IS your personal view point, alright.

 

And no it wasn't shaming you, are you ashamed of being in ST

 

6 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

Do you want AA to be strong enough that you don't even need to spec in it and then melt down all planes by only looking at it?

 

Here you go again, Enterprise vs tier X AAA destroyer with all AA modules and aft has absolutely no counter play options at all except running. So you can drop this line about having to spec for AAA, it doesn't matter. 

 

6 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

Wow and you did play probably some CW after the REEEEWORK right?

I played some clan wars after REEwork? What? You mean clan battles without carriers? What the heck you talking about..

 

6 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

In fact i don't know how you spec your DD's

So why you keep repeating I need to spec for AA? Did you just assume I was some dumb guy complaining about perfect balance because I don't understand the game? Don't make me laugh.

 

6 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

if i have a complett different opinion then any one else than yeah lets attack him

Attacking? You mean telling you you're wrong which you seamingly can not handle? Like your constant whining about people needing to SPEC FOR AAA right...

 

6 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

I can only see 2 FACTS about you. You believe that CV is op because you where stopped by a CV the hole time because you played probably aggressivly or not with your team. The Secound FACT is you don't even play CV in the first place and you talk like it is easy to do what you want. 

And this is why I make fun of your arguments, you seem to think you should tell me how to play with my team, and that because I don't like playing broken ships I can't claim it's easy when I just posted the screenshots of what the sudden move to play a CV does with player performance. This was even one of WG's goals with REEwork and while they claimed it lowered this sudden skill increase it doesn't really look to be the case. You know, actual numbers instead of "I have a different opinion" .Stop making so many assumptions just so you can support this state of gameplay.

 

6 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

IN FACT CV OVERALL HAVE A LOWER WINRATE THEN THE SOO PER SAY QONC.

Are you quoting overall stats or post REEwork? And why are you not using Mapple, you know which tracks all players, instead of wows-numbers which only tracks people who have ever been searched on the site ( or did they change this... ).? 

 

You also ignore that a> you don't balance around bad players, it means the good players in this thread will still be outperforming them by such a margin this rebalancing is pointless. b> overall wr of CV's is now probably filled with a lot of players playing them for the first time. 

 

There is plenty of evidence proving how broken they are in the right hands, so your overall stats are quite meaningless. 

 

6 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

The average DMG is not even on paar with most T10 BB's

Wait, it doesn't matter what you quote for time period, if you can't interpret the numbers anyway. Lower overall dmg is nothing I care about to much, if that damage and who they basically counter has shifted from battleships to destroyers. Sure dmg goes down if they are better off killing enemy destroyers instead of battleships, but hey let's give even bad carrier players a shotgun so they can kill even the best destroyer players with zero counterplay options. It's all automated, you take X k dmg each rocket barrage and eventually you die. That's not how destroyers should be played, CV's needed at least some skill to cross drop destroyers. which weren't total baddies. But hey RTS was sooooo bad because battleships got devstruck to much right? That doesn't imply I want RTS back, but I sure as hell think this change has not made the game better at all, it made it worse. 

 

6 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

Where is you CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK then?

I was giving it before you got into ST, and we still got this .... we got now. Battleships are still getting fresh diaper after fresh diaper, destroyers need to multitask more and more and get even more 'jobs' to do with the science fiction submarines moving at a speedfactor of 3 submerged relative to the other classes, CV's are easier to play ( ow don't take my word for it, listen to the people here.... ow wait, you got a different OPINION right?

 

6 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

IF you want to have a WAR about FACTS then go ahead.

I don't think you REALLY want a war...

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

1.

Your Stats tell a Different Story. Because just like everyone else. You got Better Stats in CVs than in your other Classes.

Wow... what a surprise

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Well Sorry but i play every class in the game and even if there is a CV i dont really care about them because in my Eye's the are not a big threat.

Maybe CV's don't think you're a threat so they ignore you?

 

 

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Your Stats tell a Different Story. Because just like everyone else. You got Better Stats in CVs than in your other Classes.

But hey Yeah why be Honest when you can be Loud and Insulting right ^^

O.O okay..... Apparently having 1% less winrate than my CV on my DD's means i play mainly CV O.o I have 58% on bb's, 60% on CA 64% on DD's and like 65% on CV mean's i play mainly CV's while i have 200 games in CV and above 1k on all other classes. Alright.  

How am i insulting? Where did i even insult you? Please point that out. 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Oh and where did mtm want RTS back ?

Meanwhile Capra seems to be more Concerned with BB AA than with anything you mentioned :)

"As for not Touching T8 or higher.

I dont even know one to be honest."

I named you 2 people that did not touch T8 not even T6 for that matter. But okay.

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Just not when you Bring Stats which are not Relevant to the Topic.

Then tell me. What stats are needed to be convincing? Don't come with K/D because that is literally the worst state to compare it. Because you could have the most amazing KD even with a DD. But it says nothing about the ship.

So plend tell me what state should we focus on? Just don't come with feeling okay.

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

So that the Attacks they Succesfully Land actually Deal Proper Damage.

 What would be also a problem solution. Nerv the DMG. So people are less annoyed by the constant harassment. Like nerv AP bombs for example or the torps or even rockets. Make rockets only cause fire and do minir dmg. Rockets could also be possible in regards of module dmg so you focus down with rockets your targets and then you can attack properly with torps or bombs. Also a possibility. But yeah.

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

First being that most of us who are Regular in this Topic are actually NOT DD Players Complaining here. Because they really are not. In Fact several of the Players here which are now on our Side. Are CV Players which were Defending CVs at First but got Turned around due to Others and Me Showing them in Replays and Training Rooms how things work and why CVs are Overpowered. 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Do you know what kind of Roflstomping it is when your Top Tier as a CV right now ?

 

https://replayswows.com/replay/62110#stats

I will be honest i watched the replay. I guessed how you play by your average dmg on the class. What fair enough is not how i play. 100k dmg in 10 min. Is pretty good but i could do that on any surface aswell. OF course not useless ones but yeah.

I just had previously a game with hinden where i got 110k in 6 min. IS the ship now op? not really actually more like useless in comp play.

[mtm78]

3 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

Says the guy who is a potato in every class except CV.... GO [edited]figure.

 Wow and you claim I was the one 'attacking' people? 

 

Figures

 

edit: I said literally that I am glad I left. That does not shame you does it, you seem to agree with development direction so your feedback would be something they might find more 'useful'. 

 

 

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

2 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

I was giving it before you got into ST, and we still got this .... we got now. Battleships are still getting fresh diaper after fresh diaper, destroyers need to multitask more and more and get even more 'jobs' to do with the science fiction submarines moving at a speedfactor of 3 submerged relative to the other classes, CV's are easier to play ( ow don't take my word for it, listen to the people here.... ow wait, you got a different OPINION right?

I dont understand what exactly you mean by that? Do you mean you joined ST before me? Well that would be a suprise because i'm in the ST program for more then 2 Year's but alright.

Regarding subs, I think the are cool and what not but the don't fit at all into PVP. So the should just have operations for them etc... (that's a completet topic but hey.)

4 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Here you go again, Enterprise vs tier X AAA destroyer with all AA modules and aft has absolutely no counter play options at all except running. So you can drop this line about having to spec for AAA, it doesn't matter. 

Well i will be honest. In regards of the Grozevoi. She has some problems. Meaning her AA looks good but does nothing. The problem that i find myself in especially the Groze is that she just does not actually have the AA power that she used to have. So We could argue about her being kinda in the loop hole because other dd's that are very good in AA are still good like Friesland or Kidd etc.....

6 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Attacking? You mean telling you you're wrong which you seamingly can not handle? Like your constant whining about people needing to SPEC FOR AAA right..

Well i can handle most of the attack's and i dont really care about it to much but i find it very funny how you say that i'm whining and tell people to spec for AA since AAA is a batterie(just joke aside). I just state the obivous maybe you are not the one that it will be obious to do but i see it sooo many times in Random games where the DD just ether is not at all AA or just does not want to turn off the AA.

 

10 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Wait, it doesn't matter what you quote for time period, if you can't interpret the numbers anyway. Lower overall dmg is nothing I care about to much, if that damage and who they basically counter has shifted from battleships to destroyers. Sure dmg goes down if they are better off killing enemy destroyers instead of battleships, but hey let's give even bad carrier players a shotgun so they can kill even the best destroyer players with zero counterplay options. It's all automated, you take X k dmg each rocket barrage and eventually you die. That's not how destroyers should be played, CV's needed at least some skill to cross drop destroyers. which weren't total baddies. But hey RTS was sooooo bad because battleships got devstruck to much right? 

Here we go again. I could not care less if RTS or the current system is in place. In the old system i still deleted a DD in less 3 min. Of the start of the game aka devstruck him. Or non stop spotting accross the map the hole time and no one can stop me. Because AS haku was fun. The bigger issue that i have is yes Rocket planes are kinda stupid to deal a crap ton of dmg against DD's with not much effort. On the other hand if you see CV why are you running by yourself? IF people talk about history then yes look up. No fleet let the DD run around by himself to do hunting missions and if the get send out (most of the time multiple DD's at a time) then the where scouting the area. But yeah running around in videogame by yourself in pvp is total normal.

15 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

I don't think you REALLY want a war...

Well believe or not but i will harder to crack then anyone you can meet ;)

 

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

4 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

I said literally that I am glad I left. That does not shame you does it, you seem to agree with development direction so your feedback would be something they might find more 'useful'. 

Don't worry. I'm not on the DEV's side on multiple area's. So yeah i'm being apperently soo much in love with them no thx.

[Sunleader]

57 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Lack of skill? How do you mean lack of skill? Just because I am a potato, does not mean I am not skilled. Just checked the scoreboards on Saipan (my most played carrier, I find it challenging as it is very demanding to play due to small air wing) and if I take the players with at least 200 games in it, I lead the scoreboards in PR and DMG, have second best WR (trailing by 0.15% behind the first one ) and fourth best FR (trailing by 0.05) and you are telling me that I have no skill.

 

I am telling you that it is perfectly possible to dodge the attack (as I am sailing around in DDs when not in a CV), and your answer is that I am blaming others for lack of skill! I must say I do not understand your arguments. How is it possible to lead the scoreboard with no skill?

 

1.

I would almost believe it if you werent doing pretty bad in the other CVs that according to you yourself are less Challenging :)

2.

Thats Fine. But given that you did not even bother Trying in 0.8.5 I can easily See that the Reason for you being up there is that unlike others you Simply only Play when CVs are Confirmed to be Ridiculously Overpowered and Refuse to Play whenever AA was Buffed a bit.

3.

So your Telling me you can Dodge my Rocket Attacks from a CV ? Could you Provide Evidence for that ? :)

Could you show me how a DD Dodges Rocket Attacks from a CV ? :)

If your refering to a DD Dodging Torpedoes Sorry. But then its your Lack of Skill in using the Right Attacks. :)

If a DD Pumps AP Shells into the Side Armor Belt of a BB that BB is not Defending itself against Attacks. Its just that the DD is too Stupid to choose the Right Weapon for the Job ;)

 

51 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

How Sunleader wins an argument:

 

He blapps you with a huge wall of text every time. 

 

 

But seriously. I still don't agree with "if CV weren't brain dead easy to play I would be a potato in them too".

 

Your affinity towards CV class would be the culprit. Why aren't other potatoes performing as well as CV as you do @Sunleader?

You need to stop looking at yourself all the time and look at that potato CV on the enemy team with his 40% winrate that gives you an easy time in the dmg race. 

You won't have your purple stats with me or El2a on the enemy team for example and certainly would get neutered by a simple 50% winrate CV player because even those can sometimes generate just enough impact for your team to absolutely kill the game for you. 

 

Also yes Sunleader. The potato Avatar has good points. Saipan is a special CV under the current t8 prems and performing well in such a CV takes alot of effort. 

 

CV are only powerful in the right players control. Anywhere else they are just a gimmick I don't care about while playing surface ships. Have I ever encountered a CV that gave me trouble as a surface ship? No. Why? Because there are so many terrible players. 

 

 

1.

Meanwhile you dont even Try to Win Arguments and Instead just Troll around.

2.

Its the Truth tough.

I wont Deny that I got an Affinity for CVs.

But the Pattern for almost all of the People here is the same as Mine.

Meaning that in all cases their Stats for the other Classes are Roughly in the same Range. While their CV Stats are one or two Cuts above.

Meanwhile the only People I find which have CV Stats that are Lower than their other Classes. Is People which basicly got Thousands of Games in other Classes but not even 100 on CVs.  (Post Rework CV Games only of course)

3.

Winrate is actually Antiproportional here. The Problem is. The more Powerful your Ship is. The more Influence you have in Battle. As a CV your Influence right now is Tremendous. So if your Better than the Enemy CV you will Win ALOT if your Worse than the Enemy CV you will Lose ALOT.

Thats the Counterpoint of Overpowered Classes Unfortunately. If you dont have the Skill to actually Carry your Team you end up Losing alot.

4.

Does he ?

No Offense Intended. I dont have Saipan and I wont get yet Another CV just to Prove a Point. But from what I can tell. His Performance in the other CVs which supposedly are Easier. Is way below the Saipan.

And from the Receiving End. I actually consider a Saipan extremely Dangerous.

Its Planes are Resilent as Heck Compared to other CVs. They basicly Come with Pre Installed Survival Expert HP by Default. And while not as Fast as the Planes of GZ. They are Pretty Fast.

Moreover its Payload is rather Impressive.

Comparing it to my Favorite CV the Graf Zeppelin.

He Carries Launches 6 Rockets with 60mm Penetration at 5400 Damage each. Thats 32k Alpha. And with that Penetration that means he can easily get 10k Hits even on BBs. The GZ already has a few more Rockets and gets 35k Alpha but only 40mm Penetration. And even that already Results in Good Damage Counts against even BBs.

The Torpedoes are way better than GZ. With Shorter Arming Distance and Higher Damage. 26k vs the GZs 16k.

And the Bombs well. 11.2k Alpha Dropping 4 HE Bombs in a Way less RNG Pattern than GZ. Meaning that these Bombs with Simple HE Penetration get the SAME Damage that you get with Graf Zeppelin when you Score a Double Citadel.....

Plus the Bonus of Fire Chance ;)

 

Dont get me Wrong there Mate.

In 0.8.5 and 0.8.6 the Saipan clearly was Hard to Play.

But now ? I am not so Sure Really.

5.

The bar for that Right Hands is way too low then.

 

 

22 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

O.O okay..... Apparently having 1% less winrate than my CV on my DD's means i play mainly CV O.o I have 58% on bb's, 60% on CA 64% on DD's and like 65% on CV mean's i play mainly CV's while i have 200 games in CV and above 1k on all other classes. Alright.  

How am i insulting? Where did i even insult you? Please point that out. 

"As for not Touching T8 or higher.

I dont even know one to be honest."

I named you 2 people that did not touch T8 not even T6 for that matter. But okay.

Then tell me. What stats are needed to be convincing? Don't come with K/D because that is literally the worst state to compare it. Because you could have the most amazing KD even with a DD. But it says nothing about the ship.

So plend tell me what state should we focus on? Just don't come with feeling okay.

 What would be also a problem solution. Nerv the DMG. So people are less annoyed by the constant harassment. Like nerv AP bombs for example or the torps or even rockets. Make rockets only cause fire and do minir dmg. Rockets could also be possible in regards of module dmg so you focus down with rockets your targets and then you can attack properly with torps or bombs. Also a possibility. But yeah.

 

I will be honest i watched the replay. I guessed how you play by your average dmg on the class. What fair enough is not how i play. 100k dmg in 10 min. Is pretty good but i could do that on any surface aswell. OF course not useless ones but yeah.

I just had previously a game with hinden where i got 110k in 6 min. IS the ship now op? not really actually more like useless in comp play.

 

1.

Thats 1% on your Second Highest. Its 5% and more to the Others. ^^

2.

Ah. So thats the Statement you Meant. I cant Read your Mind lol. As for these 2. They are not Regulars. So I dont care lol.

3.

K/D is Telling of your Risk vs Reward Situation. So that as well. But Generally you should Look at all Stats and all Abilities when Comparing a Class. There is no One Magic Stat you can Check on to See how a Class is Doing.

(Winrate is useful to Judge a Player. But for a Class its useless. Because as I said. Winrate is Meaningless here because the Average Winrate for all Classes is Roughly the Same as all Classes get Matches against themselves by Default....)

For Example. High Damage can be Telling if its really High Damage. But whats also Telling is the Exp Gained. (Of course Adjusted by the Exp Gain Factor for the Respective Class/Ship) because this Tells you how much that Class does in Average. (And Yes you can Damage Farm and Exp Farm. But this goes for both Sides and the Averages of the Entire Class wont be very Affected by this)

We could also Talk about Simple Stats like what the Ship can actually Do. Like The DPS, Range and Accuracy with Attacks.

Thing is we need to Talk about the Total Package of it. A BB has high Average Damage and also High Alpha Damage as a Ship. But lets Face it. Most of that Damage comes from Attacking BBs and some from Cruisers. Almost nothing of it comes from Killing DDs for example. And while a BB has High Alpha Damage its Real Damage is tremendously Lower due to its Extremely Bad Accuracy.

4.

I dont like the Idea to Nerf the Damage of CVs further. It already has Fairly Low Damage. And the thing is. A Blank Damage Nerf always means that Literally Everyone in that Class is Hurt.

Sure you can Put CV Damage even Lower. it will Alleviate the Complaints about CVs. But at the same Time CVs will start to Feel Useless and then Complain.

I might not Sound like it that Often. But I actually want CV Players to be Happy with the Situation as well. I want CVs to not be Overpowered. I dont want CVs to be useless.

5.

The Thing you Should Watch out for in the Replay is actually not the Damage. But they way it Influences the Battles.

I could easily do 100k more Damage if I farmed Some BB which has no Hope of me Missing it and which cant really Defend itself against me either.

But Farming Damage does not Win the Game.

CVs have 3 Special Abilities which make it Insanely Powerful. And the Replay Showcases that Pretty Extremely.

A. CV can Strike Whoever he Wants. And thus can Choose Importand Targets to for example Finish them or Block Them etc etc.

B. A CV can Ruin any Attempt at Sneak Attacks by Spotting and keeping your Spotted. Which is Especially Lethal for DDs.

C. You cannot take Cover against a CV. A CV does not care if your in Cover or out of Range of all others. You will never be outside Range or in Cover against a CV.

 

Thats what Broke the Enemies Neck there.

Not the Damage Dealt. But the Timing and Targets it was Dealt to.

I Systematically Removed Threats and kept my Team in an Advantage.

An Ability CVs take to the Maximum.

 

You just cant do this with other Classes.

Your bound to Targets in your Range and with Line of Fire to them.