CV Rework Discussion

[Pikkozoikum]

49 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

You will always graze flak walls and sometimes get hit with a big squadron if you don't predrop. 

Remember that if you predrop you also decrease the hitable area of your planes which makes dodging multiple flak spawns easier to do. 

With a second ship around, the squads will be shot with long, while dropping :D

Beside I noticed a "Bug". When I do a torpedo run, my rear planes get sometimes hit by Flak explosion, which are flying behind me and higher (the rear planes). That's pretty annoying

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Invisible flak is wrecking you. Remember the spawn patterns and rhythm of flak and dodge it imagining it appearing on your screen even if it isn't. 

It's like closing your eyes.

Remember that flak takes the last course of your planes into consideration shortly before spawning so when I. Gaining flak spawning keep that in mind. 

Invisible flak? wtf is dat?

 

Is that intentional from wargaming?

 

Also ill try to remember but are flak patterns the same with every ship? every class? every nation? or completely different for each and every ship?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 5 Minuten, Pikkozoikum sagte:

With a second ship around, the squads will be shot with long, while dropping :D

Beside I noticed a "Bug". When I do a torpedo run, my rear planes get sometimes hit by Flak explosion, which are flying behind me and higher. That's pretty annoying

It's not a bug. Flak is aiming at the non active planes so that can happen. Also try starting torp runs within 3.5km where no flak spawns or shortly before reaching there. 

 

Also no, long range aura isn't as strong as invisible flak. 

 

Vor 4 Minuten, CptBarney sagte:

Invisible flak? wtf is dat?

It spawns if the ship spawning it is not in your cameras line of sight and can even happen if a ship is behind an island. 

If you know that you are in flak spawn aura always dodge as if flak spawns even if it doesn't appear to or you will get nasty surprises. 

 

I believe all flak spawns in the same rhythm the pattern can be random

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

It's not a bug. Flak is aiming at the non active planes so that can happen. Also try starting torp runs within 3.5km where no flak spawns or shortly before reaching there. 

 

Also no, long range aura isn't as strong as invisible flak. 

Flak was never aiming at non-active planes (before 8.7). It was always going for the attack flight. The cont. DPS is aiming for the last plane in the squad.

This is a stupid mechanic, because you can't dodge those, you can't see the Flak behind you, while attacking a ship. I don't think it's intended. Because, while an attack run, I see flak explosion in front of my on the altitude of the attacking planes. so the planes behind shouldn't get hit.

 

[CptBarney]

4 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

It's not a bug. Flak is aiming at the non active planes so that can happen. Also try starting torp runs within 3.5km where no flak spawns or shortly before reaching there. 

 

Also no, long range aura isn't as strong as invisible flak. 

 

It spawns if the ship spawning it is not in your cameras line of sight and can even happen if a ship is behind an island. 

If you know that you are in flak spawn aura always dodge as if flak spawns even if it doesn't appear to or you will get nasty surprises. 

 

I believe all flak spawns in the same rhythm the pattern can be random

Ok that explains why i lose quite a few planes half the time and i guess its there to stop people from having full squads 24/7 (i doubt it but hey). Another problem i have is planes returning and getting shot down as they ascend up to the skys to escape and most die before they get into that immunity zone.

 

Ill have to play ryujo some more to understand this better, im not playing lexi anymore since i got my 60% winrate in her, Midway i won't even bother with.

[Pikkozoikum]

4 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I believe all flak spawns in the same rhythm the pattern can be random

The pattern depends on the hit chance and  flak explosion and distribute like in a center zone and flanking zones. I believe max number of central explosions are 6, the rest will always go to the flanks. But not 100% sure about numbers. There is a % of how many explosions go to the flank

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, CptBarney sagte:

Ok that explains why i lose quite a few planes half the time and i guess its there to stop people from having full squads 24/7 (i doubt it but hey). Another problem i have is planes returning and getting shot down as they ascend up to the skys to escape and most die before they get into that immunity zone.

To get them into immunity faster before pressing F do a full boost. You can start the boost while you are aiming already just remember to keep the boost in your calculations during aim to not overshoot. They will reach invincibility faster. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, Pikkozoikum sagte:

The pattern depends on the hit chance and  flak explosion and distribute like in a center zone and flanking zones. I believe max number of central explosions are 6, the rest will always go to the flanks. But not 100% sure about numbers. There is a % of how many explosions go to the flank

Let's just say that it's mostly random and the most dangerous ones are the ones that spread out like crazy. The numbers don't really matter here it's just rng. I would argue worse hitchance is harder to dodge since it shotguns all over the place. 

[Pikkozoikum]

4 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Another problem i have is planes returning and getting shot down as they ascend up to the skys to escape and most die before they get into that immunity zone.

You mean returning with F key or those, who dropped the load? Because the later got "buffed", they reach immunity earlier than planes with F-key

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Let's just say that it's mostly random and the most dangerous ones are the ones that spread out like crazy. The numbers don't really matter here it's just rng. I would argue worse hitchance is harder to dodge since it shotguns all over the place. 

The hit chance describes the number of Flak explosions, not an actual "hit probability", though more flak explosion also increases the hit rate of course.

 

 

On 2/6/2019 at 4:33 PM, Sub_Octavian said:

That means that with 10 base burst size and 70% hit chance, it will mostly be 7 bursts, 10 is maximum number and 4 is minimum.

 

With a single ship AA,  80% of flak bursts (but not more than 6) is being placed in zone A. The rest goes to side B zones. Flak bursts do not overlap each other.

 

Let's check Baltimore once again (the scaling on these pictures is simplified).

 

Long range AA has spawned 5 bursts, so 5 go to A zone and 1 goes to B zone.

 

 

Medium range AA has spawned 11 bursts, so A zone gets 6 bursts (of lesser size) and 5 bursts go to B.

 

 

If there are several ships firing, the rules are slightly different: up to 8 bursts can be placed in A zone combined and up to 10 bursts - in A zones. The most powerful burst are being chosen in this case.

 

 

 

[CptBarney]

6 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

To get them into immunity faster before pressing F do a full boost. You can start the boost while you are aiming already just remember to keep the boost in your calculations during aim to not overshoot. They will reach invincibility faster. 

Ok and also what about dealing with flak from other ships while dropping another one? Is it possible to dodge or can you just wave goodbye to toineh planus?

 

(and yes you have become the smoll2razer for now).

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 6 Minuten, CptBarney sagte:

Ok and also what about dealing with flak from other ships while dropping another one? Is it possible to dodge or can you just wave goodbye to toineh planus?

 

(and yes you have become the smoll2razer for now).

You can dodge. The graphics pikko posted are however a good example of what you should expect. Usually against multiple ships you will do only one attack run anyway. So if you dodge that one time you usually press boosted F to save the "buffer" if possible. 

 

Otherwise remember what we talked about on how to dodge flak. Remember the rhythm of 2 ships firing at you at the same time too. It will always be the same once the different flaks have spawned. Remember that when you are in AA range but you don't have Los of the ship to dodge the invisible flak. 

 

Shorten your squad if you don't plan on multiple attacks to make dodging shotgun flak easier.

Never think "I can kiss my planes goodbye". Remember to use boost during flak dodging and remember using boost after pressing F, empty it and spam F since the squad disappears anyway. 

[Pikkozoikum]

6 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Ok and also what about dealing with flak from other ships while dropping another one? Is it possible to dodge or can you just wave goodbye to toineh planus?

 

(and yes you have become the smoll2razer for now).

well, technically you can try to dodge them and boost through it. Boosting means a wider spread, so you can throttle and dodge them only with speed. Or just ignore them and fly through it, the drop will go most likely out.

But in theoretical now it'S better, before the patch you had AA from other ships + mid range aa from the focused ship xD

[CptBarney]

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

You can dodge. The graphics pikko posted are however a good example of what you should expect. Usually against multiple ships you will do only one attack run anyway. So if you dodge that one time you usually press boosted F to save the "buffer" if possible. 

 

Otherwise remember what we talked about on how to dodge flak. Remember the rhythm of 2 ships firing at you at the same time too. It will always be the same once the different flaks have spawned. Remember that when you are in AA range but you don't have Los of the ship to dodge the invisible flak. 

 

Shorten your squad if you don't plan on multiple attacks to make dodging shotgun flak easier.

Never think "I can kiss my planes goodbye". Remember to use boost during flak dodging and remember using boost after pressing F, empty it and spam F since the squad disappears anyway. 

Thank you toineh senpai.

 

 

[Panocek]

5 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The hit chance describes the number of Flak explosions, not an actual "hit probability", though more flak explosion also increases the hit rate of course.

 

 

 

God knows if that article is still valid. Its not like AA have been turned upside down serveral times already

[Pikkozoikum]

4 minutes ago, Panocek said:

God knows if that article is still valid. Its not like AA have been turned upside down serveral times already

As long it's not mentioned somewhere, that they changed it, I would go with that. Also the AA explosion never changed so far, only the mid range doesn't exists anylonger

[AirSupremacy]

If there are multiple ships with fitted flak burst modules, the whole screen will be full with a line of flak burst.

There is no room to escape, as there is no space to dodge left or right, brake or speed up.

I find the current AA implementation is a fair AA system. I would be surprised if WG will make any further drastic AA changes, so hopefully, it's over.

Looking forward to new gameplay content and the submarines.

Have a nice time in WoWs :)

 

[CptBarney]

@L0V3_and_PE4CE I guess i can put miss ryuju in teh binbin nowah. 33% atm not a happeh bunneh!

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

HALP.

 

*screams*

[rnat]

1 hour ago, CptBarney said:

I guess i can put miss ryuju in teh binbin nowah. 33% atm not a happeh bunneh!

Any specific problems you can identify ?

Like being deplaned early, getting caught by an enemy push or unable to do dmg to some targets ?

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

2 hours ago, CptBarney said:

@L0V3_and_PE4CE

 

 

I guess i can put miss ryuju in teh binbin nowah. 33% atm not a happeh bunneh!

 

Didn't this used to be the ENGLISH language section of the forum?

 

I must admit that i lost track of "popular culture" in about 1977, but what is this patois?

[mtm78]

Isn't this the place to vent about CV REEwork? Guess I should stop derailing other topics...

 

Just played my Grozo, got farmed an entire game by an Enterprise. Took 20k rocket dmg, 10k from him keeping me spotted entire game. Sure I shot down 34 planes but that meant nothing, it was automated and I had zero actual counterplay options ( my flank did get pushed so I lost my allies pretty soon and CV was able to farm me crossing map to remaining allies AAA umbrella... only for him to ignore that and kill me anyway ). 

 

That's a tier 8 CV against a DD which is supposed to have AA as special trait two tiers higher. Should I be happy it took him that long to finally finish me, and he had to ignore the rest of the team trying to deal with me? Should that make me happy, getting farmed bit by bit with ZERO counter play options? 

 

Is it good game design when a new player with 2k battles and a 52% wr, has 66% wr in Enterprise?

 

Has REEwork been a total success in protecting the battleships from being dev struck while making the game worse for everyone else?

 

Vote now!

 

[Capra76]

10 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Isn't this the place to vent about CV REEwork? Guess I should stop derailing other topics...

 

Just played my Grozo, got farmed an entire game by an Enterprise. Took 20k rocket dmg, 10k from him keeping me spotted entire game. Sure I shot down 34 planes but that meant nothing, it was automated and I had zero actual counterplay options ( my flank did get pushed so I lost my allies pretty soon and CV was able to farm me crossing map to remaining allies AAA umbrella... only for him to ignore that and kill me anyway ). 

 

That's a tier 8 CV against a DD which is supposed to have AA as special trait two tiers higher. Should I be happy it took him that long to finally finish me, and he had to ignore the rest of the team trying to deal with me? Should that make me happy, getting farmed bit by bit with ZERO counter play options? 

 

Is it good game design when a new player with 2k battles and a 52% wr, has 66% wr in Enterprise?

 

Has REEwork been a total success in protecting the battleships from being dev struck while making the game worse for everyone else?

 

Frankly I see no point in playing the game anymore.

 

Playing anything but CV is pointless because you are simply nerfing your own damage/XP output and influence on the game, but at the same time playing CV (essentially one-way, zero counterplay, damage farming) very quickly becomes boring as .

 

Even as a BB, I'd prefer to fight DD/CA that I can counter with skill rather than Skypox that I counter with RNG.

 

I'll leave you to find an "Epic Fail" gif for me.

[mtm78]

If it were counterable with RNG that would at least be something, I had zero feel for having any options. I focused AA, used DFAA and all it did was delay dying. 

 

I can remember playing my Sims 'back in the days' where I survived minutes against a CV which had to sink me, while on a sliver of health and still making it because I could evade torpedo drops, even cross drops if the enemy CV wasn't good enough or when I had dfaa ready, and dive bombs were more rng to get hit if you were a good at wigglin that stern around ( meaning it 'could' happen, but if it did it was mostly because you made an error or it felt like you could have evaded it... there was always a chance big or small ).

 

Rocket planes against destroyers are just.. ye I get what you mean. I was playing with Wolfy in division when this happened, we were having a nice evening with good enough games ( yes, even I was not sucking for a change ). But I just don't feel like playing after experiencing that. 

[Capra76]

Rocket planes v DD are bad enough, but what I really hate about new CV is what it takes from the game, regardless of class.

 

The best games, IMO, were always the close, 20 minute games, where you end up with 2-4 ships per team and you as a player get to have a huge effect on the outcome, now what happens is that you end up with 2 ships plus 1 or 2 CV surviving and the surface ships can do literally nothing because they're spending the whole time evading endless air attacks.

 

I honestly don't see how this can be solved.

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

how about specing AA? oh wait that would be actual counterplay.

1 hour ago, Capra76 said:

Playing anything but CV is pointless because you are simply nerfing your own damage/XP output and influence on the game

Really? how about then nerving otherships aswell. Like Conquerer but hey what am i to say.

 

2 hours ago, mtm78 said:

Just played my Grozo, got farmed an entire game by an Enterprise.

Soooo he did nothing else then trying to kill you the hole time. That means he was pretty much only on a 1v1 situation. You saved your teammates from getting bombed by him so what is there the problem?

BB's are suppose to draw fire from all the enemies and the will get shout by more then 1 ship. Are the now complaining about everything?

 

To be honest i just don't know why you all are crying about it. A friend of mine did the following against 2 CV's and he dienied the entire section where he was and the rest of his team just took care of the rest of the team. So hmmmm Means if you ACTUALLY SPEAK AA then you will not have many issues against CV.

 

With only BFT and the AA upgrade but hey Specing AA is not good we need to counter CV without anything.

Spoiler

 

Spoiler