CV Rework Discussion

[Bear__Necessities]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

It's like saying "only 5% of all shots fired are lethal, so it's fine to shoot people". Completely absurd reasoning.

Wait wait wait... you mean it’s NOT fine to shoot people???

 

Sheeeeeeeeet...

 

*whistles loudly*

[Pikkozoikum]

9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

It's like saying "only 5% of all shots fired are lethal, so it's fine to shoot people". Completely absurd reasoning.

Your comparison is absurd. Getting shot and having one time a bad game are compeltly different things. The consequences are totally different, killing/dying and having a bad game?!

This is about risk and consequences. Your comparions has a high risk and a really, really bad consquence. My statement has a lower risk and an almost non-existing consquence. I mean, wow 10 minutes a bad game! Is almost like dying by a bullet, right? xD

 

[El2aZeR]

8 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Your comparison is absurd.

 

It's not a comparison, it's an analogy. How unexpected of you to worthlessly harp on that. /s

But if taking it too literally is your only defense then I suppose nothing else needs to be said about how absurd your point is.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

It's not a comparison, it's an analogy. How unexpected of you to worthlessly harp on that. /s

But if taking it too literally is your only defense then I suppose nothing else needs to be said about how absurd your point is.

You seem to be just searching for confrontations and fights. I have no other explanation for your kind of "argumentation". I rephrase, what you write, how I would write it without being a smartass or [edited].

 

It's not a comparison, it's an analogy. How unexpected of you to worthlessly harp on that. /s -> "Comparison" is the wrong word in this context, it should be analogy.

But if taking it too literally is your only defense then I suppose nothing else needs to be said about how absurd your point is. -> You missed some points about what I talked, you should reply to the more imporant part of my post.

 

This would be neutral and actual make it less pain to reply to you. BTW, generally I always reply to the whole post or at least to the important parts. But I remember, that you mostly don't do that either, you pick only single phrases, where you can be the smartass. I just did this time the same ;)

[Lootboxer]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Found this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yjhrvUUDRQuAb5td_S3Dyd5iIDaH9yHN_sNSyWaLYAY/edit#gid=1181183220

AA strength at 0.8.0 on PTS 3 (which was the release version).

 

Minotaur current combined AA: 677 dps

Minotaur 0.8.0 mid range AA: 731 dps

 

DM current combined AA: 544 dps

DM 0.8.0 mid range AA: 720 dps

 

To name just two things that stand out to me.

*slow clap*

But, but, on the loading screen now it's nearly 100 stronk so AA is OP!

 

My last 7 days average PR by class: CA- 794   BB- 1357   DD- 1170   CV-  3262  and LOL I can't even play them!

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

This would be neutral and actual make it less pain to reply to you. BTW, generally I always reply to the whole post or at least to the important parts. But I remember, that you mostly don't do that either, you pick only single phrases, where you can be the smartass. I just did this time the same ;)

 

That you even believe you deserve my respect and courtesy after months of being intellectually dishonest is laughable.

I will be civil with you as per forum rules, but nothing more.

 

And if you haven't realized it, I pick only single phrases but do respond to the whole post. The reason I do this is to not clog up the forum with walls of quotes. A blind man could see that, beyond you and another person who I believe is banned no one has ever had issues with it.

I sure wonder what ulterior motives you have bringing up such a worthless point. Clearly your reasoning can't be as obvious as it seems amirite? /s

[Pikkozoikum]

53 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

But, but, on the loading screen now it's nearly 100 stronk so AA is OP!

At the stream for 8.7 pts, the developer wanted to get rid of the extrem AA monsters. And now the AA monsters get nerfed. Oh wow, what a surprise! They telling us, that they nerf those ship, and then they nerf those ships, nobody could expect that!

 

I looked for Hindenburg

 

0.8.0

S 272+M 375+L 104=751 (this number is actually pointless, since the dps can't cumulate)

0.8.7

S 122+M 308+L 138=568

 

But actually it's more meanigful to not add the total number, but look at the single zones

 

0.8.0

S 272 // M 375 // L 104

0.8.7

S 568 // M 446 // L 138

I testest in a direct, boosted attack -> Long-mid-short and above the target in seconds: 12-7-3-0

5s in long, 4s in mid, 3s in short.

 

0.8.0

104*5 + 375*4 + 272*3 = 2836

 

0.8.7

5 seconds 138 = 690

4 seconds 138+308 =  1784

3 seconds 138+308+122 = 812

total = 3286

 

this is without sector switching and burst, but the burst alone would do around 700 dmg against a 20k squad. So I wouldn't assume ,that the aa is weaker, than 0.8.0

 

 

Bonus:

There is also a small difference in gameplay, before 0.8.7. it was often saver to F in the shortrange, than trying to move out, now pressing F would lead to remain in the strongest AA zone, thus the cv player has to move out of this zone, which lalso leads to a longer remaining time, where the squad is being shot. Though I'm not sure what is saver recalling in the short range or flying out, because both takes it time.

 

 

ps.: would be also nice, if someone else would do that test too. Especially with measuring flight times, how long it takes for which zones, just to have more data. I used Kaga TBs. Kaga is my best CV at the moment because of regrind

pps: Does anybody has the dps numbers from 0.8.6.? Would be itneresting to see them as well in comparison

 

 

 

[Sunleader]

23 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

At the stream for 8.7 pts, the developer wanted to get rid of the extrem AA monsters. And now the AA monsters get nerfed. Oh wow, what a surprise! They telling us, that they nerf those ship, and then they nerf those ships, nobody could expect that!

 

I looked for Hindenburg

 

0.8.0

S 272+M 375+L 104=751 (this number is actually pointless, since the dps can't cumulate)

0.8.7

S 122+M 308+L 138=568

 

But actually it's more meanigful to not add the total number, but look at the single zones

 

0.8.0

S 272 // M 375 // L 104

0.8.7

S 568 // M 446 // L 138

I testest in a direct, boosted attack -> Long-mid-short and above the target in seconds: 12-7-3-0

5s in long, 4s in mid, 3s in short.

 

0.8.0

104*5 + 375*4 + 272*3 = 2836

 

0.8.7

5 seconds 138 = 690

4 seconds 138+308 =  1784

3 seconds 138+308+122 = 812

total = 3286

 

this is without sector switching and burst, but the burst alone would do around 700 dmg against a 20k squad. So I wouldn't assume ,that the aa is weaker, than 0.8.0

 

 

Bonus:

There is also a small difference in gameplay, before 0.8.7. it was often saver to F in the shortrange, than trying to move out, now pressing F would lead to remain in the strongest AA zone, thus the cv player has to move out of this zone, which lalso leads to a longer remaining time, where the squad is being shot. Though I'm not sure what is saver recalling in the short range or flying out, because both takes it time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see your still throwing around Stawmans....

 

In the Stream they said they want to Equalize AA Capabilities a bit.

So AA Monsters get some less AA.

And Ships with weak AA get Stronger AA.

 

Thing is.

Ships with Fairly weak AA got even weaker AA now.

 

They didnt just Nerf the AA Monsters.

They Nerfed almost All Ships AA.

 

 

And Mate.

0.8.0 was one of the WEAKEST AA Iterations ever.

Back then AA was so weak that you could fly over Full Blobs without losses.

The Numbers having gone so low that they can be Compared to 0.8.0 again is therefore Nice Evidence that AA has been Nerfed into.Oblivion....

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

I see your still throwing around Stawmans....

Keeping saying that, doesn't make it true, neither does it make you more authenic. Try some facts.

 

3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

They Nerfed almost All Ships AA.

Can you give me AA numbers of Zao, or if you prefer the HIpper. I mean all numbers, short long and mid

 

4 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

0.8.0 was one of the WEAKEST AA Iterations ever.

I don't have other values. Also 0.8.0 didn't had weak AA only as a problem, but also the overbuffed squads. Torpedochances higher, one heavy damage flood instead of two flood spots. Some damagenumbers were higher. After that, they buffed AA and nerfed planes over patches, which made CVs way weaker and unpopluar, now they nerfed AA and buffed planes again. That's the process of balancing.

So as general assumption: 0.8.0 has weakest AA, 0.8.6. has too strong aa. Now it's higher than 0.8.0 but lower than 0.8.6. then this is a good attempt for balancing.

Or should it be higher than 0.8.6 or should it be lower than 0.8.0. I guess not.

That's what I tryed to tell you in the other thread, that a nerf have to be done with the change of the overlapping and burst. You can't stay with overbuffed AA and then buff is with overlapping and burst on the top.

If the AA is too weak, they can still buff them, but I don't saw any statisics so far, so I can't give a verdict, like almost can with their "feeling"

 

 

[El2aZeR]

5 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

At the stream for 8.7 pts, the developer wanted to get rid of the extrem AA monsters. And now the AA monsters get nerfed. Oh wow, what a surprise! They telling us, that they nerf those ship, and then they nerf those ships, nobody could expect that!

 

And here we go again with the dishonesty.

Regardless what WG says is irrelevant. What they actually do matters.

And that is nerf AA globally, not just that of strong AA ships.

 

5 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

So I wouldn't assume ,that the aa is weaker, than 0.8.0

 

No one claimed that.

It is however rather close as you have just proven yourself.

 

5 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

So as general assumption: 0.8.0 has weakest AA, 0.8.6. has too strong aa. Now it's higher than 0.8.0 but lower than 0.8.6. then this is a good attempt for balancing.

 

An assumption based entirely on 0.8.6 AA being too strong, which it was not. 0.8.5 and 0.8.6 have been the closest to something even remotely resembling balance so far.

 

As such balance had nothing to do with this change. It was entirely motivated by population concerns as can be inferred from previous WG statements.

[El2aZeR]

On a different note, Enterprise has mysteriously vanished from the premium shop across all servers.

Seems like they finally realized she is ludicrously op. Just took them 8 months and a hilarious buff to do so.

 

Also WoWs console may not get CVs anymore LOL.

[Sunleader]

14 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

On a different note, Enterprise has mysteriously vanished from the premium shop across all servers.

Seems like they finally realized she is ludicrously op. Just took them 8 months and a hilarious buff to do so.

 

Also WoWs console may not get CVs anymore LOL.

 

I am Honestly said Impressed this did not happen Sooner.

Usually the Ships which are Ridiculously OP but cant be Nerfed due to WGs "no Nerfs to Premiums" Policy. Dissappear way faster and become some sort of Limited Sale Ships which only come around every now and then.

 

Enterprise staying for almost a Year in Shop actually freaked me out a bit. Because I somehow was pretty Convinced that WG has really not Realized that Enterprise is OP as Hell.

 

Sigh.

At least I can now Hope for Submarines being at least somewhat Safe from CVs.

Albeit Hope is Slim. Given that so far they got Oxygen for like 3 Minutes and it Replenishes so Slowly that you wont even get an Extra Minute.

Meaning that you will Spend less time Submerged than most DDs Spend inside their Smoke...

 

So Submarines will likely be Food for CVs as well...

[Yosha_AtaIante]

They will put Enterprise out again soon enough anyways considering how popular she is. 

I don't believe they can nerf her without offering compensation now and I doubt we will hear about that. 

Also I am surprised AA is that levels of bad again. Since I never bother to look at actual numbers. Attacking a BB still feels like engaging the wrong target most times however and it became far easier to hurt cruisers now. They also give better rewards for hurting them so gg WG I guess. 

 

Submarines will probably be safe if played well. Since you only will need to dive when planes are above you and diving doesn't have a smoke CD you can surface easily right after the planes disappear to replenish oxygen making them more easily able to effectively avoid CV spotting. 

 

So since submarines are confirmed to come before alt. CV line do you believe WG is ultimately done with CV balancing? 

0.8.7.1, the upcoming patch giving us Friesland does not have any balancing changes regarding CV for example. 

Considering what S_O said on reddit they are happy for now and will consider buffing plane health if AA turns out to be still to effective lol. 

[Panocek]

33 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

They will put Enterprise out again soon enough anyways considering how popular she is.

Enty was unavailable for what, more than year for sale when WG was coming up with the rework? Also Belfast and Kutuzov, both museum ships and yet unavailable

 

36 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Submarines will probably be safe if played well. Since you only will need to dive when planes are above you and diving doesn't have a smoke CD you can surface easily right after the planes disappear to replenish oxygen making them more easily able to effectively avoid CV spotting. 

Subs IIRC from gameplay reveal were vulnerable to HE at periscope depth, submerging also wasn't instantenous. Also you bleed oxygen in all states except fully surfaced and it recovers much slower than you consume it.

 

Only saving factor would be <2km air spot of theirs.

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Enty was unavailable for what, more than year for sale when WG was coming up with the rework? Also Belfast and Kutuzov, both museum ships and yet unavailable

 

Subs IIRC from gameplay reveal were vulnerable to HE at periscope depth, submerging also wasn't instantenous. Also you bleed oxygen in all states except fully surfaced and it recovers much slower than you consume it.

 

Only saving factor would be <2km air spot of theirs.

Untill they change it of course

[FallenOrchid]

4 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

On a different note, Enterprise has mysteriously vanished from the premium shop across all servers.

Seems like they finally realized she is ludicrously op. Just took them 8 months and a hilarious buff to do so.

Even more funny is the timing: WG just published a dry dock video about the Enterprise ....

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, FallenOrchid said:

Even more funny is the timing: WG just published a dry dock video about the Enterprise ....

Marketing level: Russian

[CptBarney]

19 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Marketing level: Russian

You could always request a russian refund, comrade.

[Panocek]

9 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

You could always request a russian refund, comrade.

[CptBarney]

6 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Wrong refund fam.

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Russian%20refund

 

 

 

 

[Panocek]

2 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Wrong refund fam.

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Russian refund

 

 

 

 

Why go for a refund when you can shot someone knee off

[CptBarney]

Just now, Panocek said:

Why go for a refund when you can shot someone knee off

If your a gopnik they give you teh first one.

 

 

@L0V3_and_PE4CE i remembered how much you loiked this image!

 

 

Noice too see QE has better AA than most tier 10 DD's lol.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Please stop torturing me @CptBarney

 

BBs are the new AA "monsters" relatively SPEAKING ☆

[Panocek]

18 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Please stop torturing me @CptBarney

 

BBs are the new AA "monsters" relatively SPEAKING ☆

But... but... Kexas lost flak

[Lootboxer]

7 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

At the stream for 8.7 pts, the developer wanted to get rid of the extrem AA monsters. And now the AA monsters get nerfed. Oh wow, what a surprise! They telling us, that they nerf those ship, and then they nerf those ships, nobody could expect that! 

Jeez.I know it Mr. Obvious. What I am saying is that they telling to a few people watching WG propaganda that they are going to nerf those ships and at the same time they showing to average Joe in the meaningless loading stats (but Joe doesn't know that those numbers are out of a thin air) that they are boosting AA to pre reeeework levels. 

No surprise that most potatoes believe that they boosted AA overall in 8.7 and still are crying "AA OP nerf pls".