CV Rework Discussion

[MadSlug]

@MadBADDAVE...apologies...read it early this morning and didnt read it in its entirety otherwise i would have detected the sarcasm !! I am too used to arrogant yanks(some but not al)l in other games i play !! Once again...apologies !

[Sunleader]

 

Well then.

Results for the First few Days are Out.

 

 

 

Compared to my Results in 0.8.5 and 0.8.6 this is pretty Huge Improvement on CVs again.

its not as Ridiculous as in 0.8.4 and lower.

 

But its pretty clear to me that this Update was a Huge AA Nerf.

 

Matches are almost entirely Decided by the CV again.

Which is a Double Bladed Sword.

 

Because while it might be easier for Low and Average Skilled Players to do Damage and Drop on the Enemy.

But due to the Influence a CV wields over the Match. They will lose most of their Games without much chance of Victory.

Which is the same Situation we had in 0.8.4....

I am pretty sure Air Supplement and his Friends are Jumping from Joy about this Update.

 

 

 

 

 

[Smeggo]

So, what is the conclusio - are CVs now playable? I only see like 4 CV-unicums posting here anymore, are these the only players left? 

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, Smeggo said:

So, what is the conclusio

 

CVs are op again because WG murdered AA DPS.

This may only apply to players who can dodge flak as WG has buffed flak damage.

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

CVs are op again because WG murdered AA DPS.

This may only apply to players who can dodge flak as WG has buffed flak damage.

While also removed said flak from 2/3rd of destroyers in game, including brand new addition

[Yosha_AtaIante]

WG NEEDS TO NERF CVS HARD.

Throw the AA rework out the window and consider their balancing approach again.

It's way to easy and it's damn fun too watching this mess unfold infront of me while playing CV.

19 games 79% winrate today? I think Sunleader is right. I feel like a monster plowing through potato fields.

 

This is not okay. It's okay to pad my stats but THIS IS NOT OK WARGAMING LOL

Make AA great again so i actually need to think about what i strike

[mtm78]

43 minutes ago, Panocek said:

While also removed said flak from 2/3rd of destroyers in game, including brand new addition

 

You mean to say destroyers aren't which brings in the players according to WeeGee and as such don't need to be considered as an essential class to be having fun in while playing? 

I can't recall a 'balance change / addition' really which made a class more vulnerable to another class unless it's been destroyers?

 

49 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

CVs are op again because WG murdered AA DPS.

This may only apply to players who can dodge flak as WG has buffed flak damage.

 

Well on one hand, area dps wasn't exactly a skill based system so I think this isn't a bad direction. I'm not even sure how new mechanics work exactly but anything which makes it more interactive and thus adding a skill requirement is good right? 

 

I know WeeGee wanted to lower the skill gap but that's just the offensive capabilities, interaction with other classes otherwise was always 100% automated. 

 

The idea I think at least is pointing in the right direction.  

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 9 Minuten, mtm78 sagte:

 

You mean to say destroyers aren't which brings in the players according to WeeGee and as such don't need to be considered as an essential class to be having fun in while playing? 

I can't recall a 'balance change / addition' really which made a class more vulnerable to another class unless it's been destroyers?

 

 

Well on one hand, area dps wasn't exactly a skill based system so I think this isn't a bad direction. I'm not even sure how new mechanics work exactly but anything which makes it more interactive and thus adding a skill requirement is good right? 

 

I know WeeGee wanted to lower the skill gap but that's just the offensive capabilities, interaction with other classes otherwise was always 100% automated. 

 

The idea I think at least is pointing in the right direction.  

if it makes a potato like me to do this

Then it's not the right direction LOL

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

You mean to say destroyers aren't which brings in the players according to WeeGee and as such don't need to be considered as an essential class to be having fun in while playing? 

Then why putting effort in modelling, coding and roughly balancing new DD line, when WG could put out more (premium) battleships?

 

Sabotage from DD separatists in dev team?

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Then it's not the right direction LOL

You could say we were "almost there" in terms of balans in previous patch. But then suddenly no one is interested in playing balanced carriers, which may or may not put whole endeavor in question. Heck, boss can consider it even a waste of time and resources, which may or may not be rewarded with one way ticket to gulag hotel

 

Double post strikes back

[Asakka]

1 hour ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

WG NEEDS TO NERF CVS HARD.

Throw the AA rework out the window and consider their balancing approach again.

It's way to easy and it's damn fun too watching this mess unfold infront of me while playing CV.

19 games 79% winrate today? I think Sunleader is right. I feel like a monster plowing through potato fields.

 

This is not okay. It's okay to pad my stats but THIS IS NOT OK WARGAMING LOL

Make AA great again so i actually need to think about what i strike

Seems ok to me now 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 5 Minuten, Panocek sagte:

You could say we were "almost there" in terms of balans in previous patch. But then suddenly no one is interested in playing balanced carriers, which may or may not put whole endeavor in question. Heck, boss can consider it even a waste of time and resources, which may or may not be rewarded with one way ticket to gulag hotel

 

Double post strikes back

Previous patch with maybe 5 - 10% less AA would be fantastic. I feel it was a bit to much and forced you to do all those "exploits" to keep yourself relevant until lategame. Also negated the point of "multiple" attack runs completely.

But what we have now is.... oh well

[El2aZeR]

32 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

I'm not even sure how new mechanics work exactly but anything which makes it more interactive and thus adding a skill requirement is good right? 

 

It's one click.

Literally a click.

A click that can't be counterplayed but on the other hand is largely worthless anyway.

 

Minimum required interaction is not skill.

[mtm78]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Then why putting effort in modelling, coding and roughly balancing new DD line, when WG could put out more (premium) battleships?

 

Sabotage from DD separatists in dev team?

 

Tongue in cheek my dear sir. Maybe sprinkeled with some half or whole truths in between. 

 

1 hour ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

if it makes a potato like me to do this

 

 

Then it's not the right direction LOL

 

You don't seem to grasp what I was saying, even if the implementation isn't good the idea of changing a static automated game mechanic into something with user interaction it's a good sign. 

 

I never said the current implementation is where 'the right direction' should end up. 

 

edit:

 

49 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

It's one click.

Literally a click.

A click that can't be counterplayed but on the other hand is largely worthless anyway.

 

Minimum required interaction is not skill.

 

Clicking is very skillful, it shows you never played artillery in world of..

 

Wasn't there something about having to look in the direction of a squad, that would be nice, flak is concentrated in that direction ( but still doesn't insta gib planes if the CV player has skill in predicting and dodging when flak is used? ).  Applying AAA dmg in a surface ship shouldn't be automated, and you're right if it's just clicking like a consumable that's not really going to bring an immersion factor. Should be tied with manually controlling the camera, something which means you're actually aware of what you're defending against by pressing a button. Is it as 'manual' as actually having to aim a gunsight no, but it is the next best thing and if you consider what this game would be when your ship would be controlled by a WG AI bot when you're manning the AA guns it might even be the best thing.

 

Thing is, if you make this game to complicated WG won't even get reliable numbers. In one game a CV is up 12 exact same ships, but one team uses mechanics correctly and negate most of CV impact -> CV balanced. Team which isn't using mechanics correctly, and WeeGee removed their automation crutches -> CV horrible OP plox nerf now uncle WeeGee! 

 

 

 

 

[B051LjKo]

I still think this is a great patch and a huge step forward. Current ranked season is the best evidence on how a game without CVs look like. 3-4 DDs, 2-3 BBs and one cruiser at best. So booooring.

[MadSlug]

people may like dodging torps the whole battle...this in itself is a distraction and causes a team to lose a valuable ship due to inactivity due to dodging but cvs are once again insane with their abilities....last week i could shoot down 40 aircraft in a tier 6 game....too much i admit even with the aa flag on BUT in the last game i just played (tier4) only 8 airrcaft were shot down in 1 game by all players vs 1 cv with unlimited planes...thats about 2 sqds at most meaning the rest could roam and fire with impunity....my yubari with consumable did over 10k combined damage to aircraft with only 1 shot down...fkn ridiculous !!!

[B051LjKo]

2 minutes ago, MadSlug said:

people may like dodging torps the whole battle...this in itself is a distraction and causes a team to lose a valuable ship due to inactivity due to dodging but cvs are once again insane with their abilities....last week i could shoot down 40 aircraft in a tier 6 game....too much i admit even with the aa flag on BUT in the last game i just played (tier4) only 8 airrcaft were shot down in 1 game by all players vs 1 cv with unlimited planes...thats about 2 sqds at most meaning the rest could roam and fire with impunity....my yubari with consumable did over 10k combined damage to aircraft with only 1 shot down...fkn ridiculous !!!

Well, last random game I've played in a DD with CV, I shot down 30ish Shokaku planes with Kitakaze, o i really do not see an issue. 

[mtm78]

42 minutes ago, MadSlug said:

people may like dodging torps the whole battle...this in itself is a distraction and causes a team to lose a valuable ship due to inactivity due to dodging but cvs are once again insane with their abilities....last week i could shoot down 40 aircraft in a tier 6 game....too much i admit even with the aa flag on BUT in the last game i just played (tier4) only 8 airrcaft were shot down in 1 game by all players vs 1 cv with unlimited planes...thats about 2 sqds at most meaning the rest could roam and fire with impunity....my yubari with consumable did over 10k combined damage to aircraft with only 1 shot down...fkn ridiculous !!!

 

Tier 4 has literally pea shooters as AA. 

 

39 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Well, last random game I've played in a DD with CV, I shot down 30ish Shokaku planes with Kitakaze, o i really do not see an issue. 

 

You're playing a tier with actual AAA. 

 

Yubari btw is pretty crap as AAA platform due to relying on 25mm AAA. There used to be a time when melon-san wasn't only cute she was also deadly to carriers. That was before WeeGee nerved all IJN AAA ( especially those 25mm ). She didn't have DFAA at the time, and still was a flyswatter due to planes not having much health at low tiers. 

 

Anyway, 10k plane dmg and only killing one plane at tier 4 is pretty shitty rng. Still it's just a single match, you shouldn't judge new mechanics based on single games, because you could have just been an edge case which is statistically quite irrelevant. 

 

Also, since tier 4 never was about shooting everything down, it always was much more about dodging ( trust me, better learn evasion there than on higher tiers ). My Arkansas Beta doesn't even have a single peashooter, the captain get's on the bridge with his slingshot that's about it. And yet I never was to bothered by CV's, not even the old 'broken' one's. Because most players are crap. which helps, but even good players need to circle for a long time with very slow planes if you maneuver correctly. Dying from torps on low tiers was a sign of shame. 

 

Will try playing some tier IV / V / VI games tomorrow, maybe even see if melon has her skirt ready so we can go out for a new date. Playing some randoms today was quite uneventful for me with regards to getting struck by a CV so I'd say for me things were looking fine :D

[Bear__Necessities]

T4.... Hosho is broken as f

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, Bear_Necessities said:

T4.... Hosho is broken as f

Pretty much

[Panocek]

4 hours ago, Bear_Necessities said:

T4.... Hosho is broken as f

Is quite okay, especially as there is almost no flak to worry about

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Nothing's more broken than Midway right now. Enterprise comes close.

[CptBarney]

10 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Nothing's more broken than Midway right now. Enterprise comes close.

Nah hosho is more broken, getting krakens is actually easy now.

 

Also teams even when they throw hard are easier to get back on track.

 

Especially when toineh tier 3 boutes fly out of the harbour for teh first adventure.

 

(too those saying AA is effective, its not its just shitty carrier players incapable of dodging flak or unwilling to do so, still get striked in my georgia even if i attempt to dodge and use the sector thing)

[KillStealBoss]

Better news everyday. Though guys. Don't speak too loud cause you know WG can come with some nasty hotfix... 

[CptBarney]

Miss hosho stats atm.