CV Rework Discussion

[NoirLotus]

3 hours ago, CptBarney said:

Im suprised world of warplanes still exists.

 

Also why did total war arena fail? Too simplistic? boring? premium stuff? not fixing core issues?

Total War Arena failed because it was a very niche market so the number of potential players was low. Add to this not enough money for a good PR campaign, so making it unable to attract people outside its niche.

 

It's sad because it was a fun little game even if it had usual WG flaws (some balancing problems and a tendency to sell OP premium units at the end).

[CaptainOkita]

3 hours ago, NoirLotus said:

Total War Arena failed because it was a very niche market so the number of potential players was low. Add to this not enough money for a good PR campaign, so making it unable to attract people outside its niche.

 

It's sad because it was a fun little game even if it had usual WG flaws (some balancing problems and a tendency to sell OP premium units at the end).

WG cant appeal to RTS crowd. CV's established that.

[CaptainOkita]

9 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

Because the no AA DD can't protect itself. The only way is small air detection. 

So dd's shouldn't have counters? 

[Donar79]

Gerade eben, CaptainOkita sagte:

So dd's shouldn't have counters? 

DDs have counters. DD hunting DDs. CL. Radar. Hydro. Low HP pool.

[zordage]

10 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Dropping my 2 Cents against this.

When you Expect us to Buy any of the non CV Premium Stuff then Buff AA and make CVs into a Normal Player Class which is not Dominating the Game.

Because I wont Pay for Stuff thats just ending up as fodder for CVs....

All classes can be dominating in the hands of a good players.

And if you don´t like cv´s that´s up to you i like them but hate the current way where plains drop´s like fly´s there are no skills in this atm you are either in the ring where you lose x plains per sec or you are outside of it.

And to top it it is stupid that a wing of 8 plains only 2 go in to attack formation and the other 6 fly after them in a lemmings order to be pick´d down one by one.

  

[B051LjKo]

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Not necessarily with pre 0.8.5 AA as the damage is spread out which was your point, no? Sure they would eventually die faster but survivability in itself only benefits you for a certain time (namely the time it takes you to carry out attacks). Any excess survivability is a bonus, it's not strictly needed.

What I mean is Saipan has smaller a squadrons of very strong planes. When facing lower tier ships (especially tier 6 & 7) if was godlike, just stupidly OP (one more reason for +/- 1 matchmaking). So you could afford to receive a lot of damage, ad execute all attacks wit no issues. X would boost you, giving extra speed, and more targets to attack. A lot of the time I've managed to attack two or three ships, one after the other one. With the same squad.

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

And tell me, how many planes survived vs how many planes survived without AR?

Difficult to say It is not a colossal difference, but you could see it (as skills should work). Especially when facing much better team than yours, every little bonus helps.It was a perfectly balanced skill, not too good, but for e personally OK. Not it is useless and does nothing. Just stupid.

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

How many invis flak clouds did you hit because you sped up? Have you ever considered that AR is precisely what prevented you from reengaging by enlarging your turn radius?

Not really, when I want to reengage I just turn, the difference is speed is not huge, and I can always hit the brake if needed. 

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Because Saipan bombers are actually quite nimble from what I've seen and in tests have proven themselves to be practically toe to toe with Enterprise TBs in rate of turn.

And while I haven't played Saipan, I have played Midway which uses the exact same planes. Prior to 0.8.5 making at least two attacks even with understrength squadrons (which Saipan squads basically are) was rarely an issue.

Midway has bigger squadrons, it makes a difference. With Saipan, every lost plane counts you cant afford to lose them. To be honest, with Midway, I use almost exclusively Tiny Tims and dive bombers, where TBs I use as an ''expendable'' squad, whenever there is a tough target or a blob I would ram on them with TBs on the heal, hoping to scatter them around and sore a few hits. With isolated BBs TBs work, but DBs are so much better.

 

On Saipan on the other hand, Tiny TIms and TBs are my primary striking force. Not the the DBs dont work (they do), but they are not my first option.

 

Again, all of the above stands for 8.4. I haven played a single game CV in 8.5   

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

The risks far outweigh its sole benefit especially when a basic exploit makes the latter completely obsolete.

I will try, didn't use that by myself intentionally.

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

An exploit that uses the same principles as the slingshot to reach immunity altitude faster when bailing. During the attack animation just use boost to speed up then press F.

If executed correctly this will allow your planes to reach immunity altitude much quicker as they "slingshot" themselves to it (this is especially noticeable with TBs as they get artificially accelerated much harder than any other plane type). They also retain the last second or so of immunity after an attack while doing so. In addition once planes hit immunity altitude they retain their current speed when returning to the CV, meaning that an accel bailed squad will return and be ready again faster than a normal bailed squad.

 

I've made this exploit public for quite some time, so I'm genuinely surprised to see someone not knowing what it is.

I mostly play for fun, without looking into it deeply. Thnx for the info, will try once I feel playing CVs again.

[NoirLotus]

18 minutes ago, CaptainOkita said:

WG cant appeal to RTS crowd. CV's established that.

Nope, WG doesn't think RTS crowd can make them win lots of cash ...

 

The TWA devs knew how to make a RTS gameplay and their UI was something you would have dreamt of for RTS CV ...

[Sunleader]

23 minutes ago, zordage said:

All classes can be dominating in the hands of a good players.

And if you don´t like cv´s that´s up to you i like them but hate the current way where plains drop´s like fly´s there are no skills in this atm you are either in the ring where you lose x plains per sec or you are outside of it.

And to top it it is stupid that a wing of 8 plains only 2 go in to attack formation and the other 6 fly after them in a lemmings order to be pick´d down one by one.

  

 

1.

Right now a Good CV Player is Equal to 4 or more Good BB Players.

2.

Before 0.8.5 CVs were Dominating even in the Hands of Average and Below Average Players.

3.

We know that you Liked it when CVs were Practically Godmode and could Freely Massacre whoever they liked without any Fear of losing Planes.

And I can also Imagine that you dont like it now where you are more alike other Classes and have to actually Risk losses to do Damage to others.

Unfortunately the People at the other End did not like it at all.

In case you didnt know this. But these Guys Hunting Foxes surely like their Sport as well. But I doubt that Sport would Exist if you asked the Foxes about how much they like it.

4.

CVs had Skill Removed in 0.8.0 for both sides.

Complain to WG about that Rework.

5.

Its also Stupid that BBs have such Terrible Accuracy that they will still miss an Enemy Ship Broadsiding them 5km away with half of their Shells.

Its Stupid that DDs are only Spotted on 6km away. And its Stupid that we fight with Mixed Nations.

But its a Game. Not a Simulation. If you want to Play a Simulation play War Thunder.

Albeit if you try just once to Bomb a Ship with an Aircraft in War Thunder Simulation Mode. You will come running back to this Game instantly.

Because hitting a Ship with an Aircraft was a Pretty Hard thing to do. And usually if you wanted to Sink a Battleships you Send Aircraft Numbers in the 3 Digits per Wave.

So you get the Squadron which only Drops a few Bombs at once but has very high Accuracy and Easy Handling.

 

 

[CaptainOkita]

1 hour ago, NoirLotus said:

Nope, WG doesn't think RTS crowd can make them win lots of cash ...

 

The TWA devs knew how to make a RTS gameplay and their UI was something you would have dreamt of for RTS CV ...

Shame im so turned off by the gigantic middle finger they give players in wows to try any other game. I'd take your word that TWA was good.. It never got to the milk-whales-oriented development like the rest. Why can't we have fun pvp and pve with asymmetrical classes? Oh yeah devs that don't play their own game and CC's that lead class cliques. Is it nostalgia or was this once a relatively more chill game? The reeeeeing seems to have been dialed to 11 nowadays.

[zordage]

22 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

We know that you Liked it when CVs were Practically Godmode and could Freely Massacre whoever they liked without any Fear of losing Planes.

And I can also Imagine that you dont like it now where you are more alike other Classes and have to actually Risk losses to do Damage to others.

Where did i say that i liked some thing regarding godmode ? 

At the moment i have 170 ships in my port and i am sure i know both sides of this coin.

25 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Complain to WG about that Rework.

That´s why the original post was made.

And if we do not point out the flaws here on the forums wg will continue on the same path with more stupid things.

 

If you are in to simulators there are others then warthunder that do a better job and yea i play that game also.

I have no desire to have a fight with you here on the forums if that's what you you are after you have to keep going on alone.

 

[Sunleader]

17 minutes ago, zordage said:

Where did i say that i liked some thing regarding godmode ? 

At the moment i have 170 ships in my port and i am sure i know both sides of this coin.

That´s why the original post was made.

And if we do not point out the flaws here on the forums wg will continue on the same path with more stupid things.

 

If you are in to simulators there are others then warthunder that do a better job and yea i play that game also.

I have no desire to have a fight with you here on the forums if that's what you you are after you have to keep going on alone.

 

 

1.

Well Mate.

Your Complaining that Planes get Killed.

If Planes dont get Killed by AA Fire from Ships.

Then this is effectively back to this Godmode.

2.

Your Claim on what you Play and how many Ships you have as well as your actual Skill level and playtime in these compared to CVs is Private.

As such the Claim is meaningless as none of us can Confirm its truth.

3.

Yes. And thats why I made a Counterpost to yours.

Because the thing your Post Complains about is the First Update ever since CV Rework to make this Game Playable for Surface Ships again.

4.

If you want them to reduce Aircraft Losses again then I prefer them to go on with the current Path.

Because before 0.8.5 this Game SUCKED for everyone but CVs as soon as a CV was in the Match.

And I really dont need this back.

5.

Me Playing it is Irrelevant. I am merely Pointing out why you get a Squadron and an Attack Wing.

Which is because its a Game. Not a Simulation.

6.

I am not Interested in a Fight with you.

But I always love it when People come with this Crab about not Buying things or demanding Refunds for CVs because they are not Ridiculously Overpowered anymore.

And I feel the need to Remind such People that there is 5 times as many People Playing other Classes than CVs which could stop Buying things or Demand Refunds if CVs become Overpowered again.

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

11 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

I quite frankly don’t understand why everyone tries to pamper the DD mafia really. Because they are crying loudest?

 

Maybe it's because DD can't sit in spawn spamming HE across the map and thus need to move forward to be effective, and that would be impossible to do if you got the kind of spotting you want.

 

For all this talk of CV haters and DD mafia it sounds to me like you hate all DD players and want them removed from the game.

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

A lot of the time I've managed to attack two or three ships, one after the other one. With the same squad.

 

Which in itself is often bad play as spreading damage across multiple ships lessens your impact. 3 damaged ships are still 3 damaged ships that keep on fighting.

 

2 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

Not really, when I want to reengage I just turn, the difference is speed is not huge, and I can always hit the brake if needed. 

 

Min turn radius only engages at min speed. Even just a few more kns will widen your turn considerably. Hitting the brakes with AR enabled makes your turn a lot wider and USN bombers don't bleed speed very well to begin with.

 

2 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

Midway has bigger squadrons, it makes a difference.

 

Read what I wrote again.

 

So yeah, even prior to 0.8.5 the skill was still more of a hindrance than anything else.

[1MajorKoenig]

50 minutes ago, Operation_Crossroads_1 said:

 

Maybe it's because DD can't sit in spawn spamming HE across the map and thus need to move forward to be effective, and that would be impossible to do if you got the kind of spotting you want.

 

For all this talk of CV haters and DD mafia it sounds to me like you hate all DD players and want them removed from the game.

 

Short answer: no

 

Long answer: I started DDs relatively recently and I love playing them. I don’t think the should be removed but I am not blind and I see how many strengths they have. What I find annoying as  is this group of DD whiners who just demand demand demand. That’s about it 

[CptBarney]

2 hours ago, NoirLotus said:

Nope, WG doesn't think RTS crowd can make them win lots of cash ...

 

The TWA devs knew how to make a RTS gameplay and their UI was something you would have dreamt of for RTS CV ...

Shame they removed formations, guess the plebs couldn't figure it out lol

 

Like AW a pretty good concept gone to waste sadly.

[El2aZeR]

6 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

What I find annoying as  is this group of DD whiners who just demand demand demand. That’s about it 

 

As if the majority of CV players were any better.

[1MajorKoenig]

13 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

As if the majority of CV players were any better.

 

Up to the rework this behaviour was somewhat limited to „HE is op“, „Torp soup is op“ (for those who remember these great days) or „was Tirpitz stealth nerfed in the last patch?“. Since Rework a small but very load hater group keeps annoying me like hell. But that doesn’t mean I dislike the class. I fairly enjoy them 

[El2aZeR]

9 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Since Rework a small but very load hater group keeps annoying me like hell.

 

Again, as if CV players were any better in this regard.

[1MajorKoenig]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Again, as if CV players were any better in this regard.

 

Find them more reasonable on average 

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Find them more reasonable on average 

 

Really?

Well, I suppose when you believe they have a point they appear to be so.

 

In reality CVs  and moan about pretty much everything.

First it was condescendingly telling everyone to "lol just adapt", "git gud", "just dodge", "CVs are perfectly fine", "I can play surface ships just fine against CVs" etc.

Then when CV players are forced to do the very same thing they previously preached it's all "OMG AA IS OP", "MY CV NOW USELESS", "ROLLBACK NERF OR I LEAVE" and all the typical whine you'd previously see from BBabies.

 

So no, CV players are not better. They have easily become the most whiny s on this forum. Every single patch brings out another burst of whine and tears about how CVs are unplayable. And sometimes they have a point about unnecessary or laughable adjustments, most of the time however they're just whining about how their class isn't easymode unicum anymore.

[1MajorKoenig]

18 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Really?

Well, I suppose when you believe they have a point they appear to be so.

 

In reality CVs  and moan about pretty much everything.

First it was condescendingly telling everyone to "lol just adapt", "git gud", "just dodge", "CVs are perfectly fine", "I can play surface ships just fine against CVs" etc.

Then when CV players are forced to do the very same thing they previously preached it's all "OMG AA IS OP", "MY CV NOW USELESS", "ROLLBACK NERF OR I LEAVE" and all the typical whine you'd previously see from BBabies.

 

So no, CV players are not better. They have easily become the most whiny s on this forum. Every single patch brings out another burst of whine and tears about how CVs are unplayable. And sometimes they have a point about unnecessary or laughable adjustments, most of the time however they're just whining about how their class isn't easymode unicum anymore.

 

At the moment they clearly have the most to complain about that’s for sure. But that is more WG‘s fault.

 

Anyway - what do we see tomorrow? Russian carriers?

[Panocek]

Just now, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

At the moment they clearly have the most to complain that’s for sure. But that is WG‘s fault.

 

Anyway - what do we see tomorrow? Russian carriers?

RU atomic subs

[1MajorKoenig]

Just now, Panocek said:

RU atomic subs

 

„Just ONE ping Vasiliy“

[El2aZeR]

8 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

At the moment they clearly have the most to complain about that’s for sure. But that is more WG‘s fault.

 

You do realize you can justify all pointless whine with this, right?

[1MajorKoenig]

6 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

You do realize you can justify all pointless whine with this, right?

 

With most I meant most justified. Pointless = not justified (well or without chance of success but hey)