CV Rework Discussion

[IvVvIBlackFalconIvVvI]

8 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

Nope. It should be even smaller. Like 1.8km air detection.

Then please explain how you would do an attack with 1.8 km airdetection...with the current mechanics. Pure crap!

[CaptainOkita]

8 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

They have no AA at all. They need it. 

Inb4 "muh arcade game". This isn't star trek online so why are cloaking ships a thing? Remove the [edited]auto spot but make them render at draw distance. As it stands simply go fast enough and the cv will either waste all his planes and time keeping you spotted or give up as attack adjustments have to be made in guessing where the dd will decloak.

The new french dd's will prove speed is key in this system. (Smoking up would help against rockets and DB's if most dd's didn't go ham on smoke firing as then you can guess the silhouette of said cloaking romulan warbird)

[Sunleader]

3 hours ago, zordage said:

Droping my 2 cents on the current update.

First of all the casualty's on plains is way out of control and to be honest if you expect us to buy this crap then get a handle on it and that fast.

 

     

 

Dropping my 2 Cents against this.

When you Expect us to Buy any of the non CV Premium Stuff then Buff AA and make CVs into a Normal Player Class which is not Dominating the Game.

Because I wont Pay for Stuff thats just ending up as fodder for CVs....

 

1 hour ago, IvVvIBlackFalconIvVvI said:

Then please explain how you would do an attack with 1.8 km airdetection...with the current mechanics. Pure crap!

 

Same way I attack DDs with 2.5km Air Detection. 

 

1. Method.

While Flying over it. I drop a Fighter Squadron in the Direction the DD is Heading.

Before I then head off to its side to turn around and start the Attack Run on the DD which is Spotted by Fighters.

 

2. Method.

Once I found it. I turn to its side. Remember the Direction where it went. Get 4-5km between me and that Position and then Turn around.

Starting the Attack Run on his estimated new Position before I actually see him again.

(The Reason you turn to the Side Explicitly is because the DD can change direction while your Turning. So if you fly to his front or rear the area of his estimated position grows very far as you dont know what direction he turned into. From the side however he can only turn towards or away from you. Which for you can compensate for)

 

 

I know that currently alot of CVs are not exactly Skilled.

Which is currently the only saving Grace for DDs.

Because some CVs are really so Incompetent. That if you Turn out your AA they will just keep Overshooting you. Because they see you. Start the Attack and cant Fire before they have passed you. They turn around lose sight of you. And again only start the Attack after they Spotted you. So of course again not being able to Shoot you before they passed you...

 

 

 

[KillStealBoss]

2 hours ago, IvVvIBlackFalconIvVvI said:

Then please explain how you would do an attack with 1.8 km airdetection...with the current mechanics. Pure crap!

Without "wasting" a fighter you won't be able , residually with rocket planes.

[1MajorKoenig]

10 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Without "wasting" a fighter you won't be able , residually with rocket planes.

 

I am sure you see the lack of sense with that yourself 

[KillStealBoss]

Just now, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

I am sure you see the lack of sense with that yourself 

There is sense in this. If you are with no fighters you can't strike the DD unless some surface ship will spot him (hard spot , radar) 

[1MajorKoenig]

2 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

There is sense in this. If you are with no fighters you can't strike the DD unless some surface ship will spot him (hard spot , radar) 

 

I quite frankly don’t understand why everyone tries to pamper the DD mafia really. Because they are crying loudest?

[KillStealBoss]

1 minute ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

I quite frankly don’t understand why everyone tries to pamper the DD mafia really. Because they are crying loudest?

Because the no AA DD can't protect itself. The only way is small air detection. 

[1MajorKoenig]

8 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Because the no AA DD can't protect itself. The only way is small air detection. 

 

If that is your serious logic you have to axe AA on 90% of the ships by a significant degree. I am not sure if that is what you are looking for. 

 

Anyway I am not really in a mood to engage this constant CV hater -show today

 

 

[KillStealBoss]

9 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

If that is your serious logic you have to axe AA on 90% of the ships by a significant degree. I am not sure if that is what you are looking for. 

 

Anyway I am not really in a mood to engage this constant CV hater -show today

 

 

CV hater? I'm playing all classes, I have all ships almost. 

[B051LjKo]

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

AR is based on HP percentage. That means lower HP planes benefitted the most as their HP would get reduced faster.

They would also die faster, making the speed effect rather short.

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Trying to save a damaged squad by flying out of AA is bad for several reasons.

So I just press F after the attack and wait for all of them to die?

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

One, it wastes your time as too few planes (if any) will make it out to be worth it. If you have enough time to do that, you have enough time to make a second attack so that kinda defeats the point of trying to manually save your squad.

You sound like you've never played Saipan in Tier X battle. Good luck with turning in AAA bubble. Not every CV is an Enterprise with its reserves and regen rate. Saipan has a small airwing of good and fast irplanes. AR made them even quicker and more resilient, as you would take less AAA damage. So it maybe didn't work for you, but it sure did for me.

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Two, accel bail will do the job much faster with fewer casualties, effort and time wasted.

Three, flak renders extremely late if you're not looking at the ship shooting to the point where taking invis flak is not only common, it is the ing norm.

What is accel bail?

[1MajorKoenig]

36 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

CV hater? I'm playing all classes, I have all ships almost. 

 

Didn’t mean that you specifically are a CV hater. But your suggestion to give low-AA ships low detactabilty from air implies you want it “fair” for any possible engagement. Hence why AA cruisers would need to loose their AA strength (and BBs as well as AA-DDs) to create “fair” fights there. I doubt that design can be made work on a larger scale - other than two individual and already over performing ships another unfair advantage.

 

If any - both ships need serious nerfs 

 

 

[KillStealBoss]

10 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Hence why AA cruisers would need to loose their AA strength (and BBs as well as AA-DDs) to create “fair” fights there. I doubt that design can be made work on a larger scale - other than two individual and already over performing ships another unfair advantage.

Wait, what? Your want to nerf AA cruisers? Fair fight? Before 0.8.5 it was unfair. Now seems more balanced imho. 

[CptBarney]

19 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

They would also die faster, making the speed effect rather short.

So I just press F after the attack and wait for all of them to die?

You sound like you've never played Saipan in Tier X battle. Good luck with turning in AAA bubble. Not every CV is an Enterprise with its reserves and regen rate. Saipan has a small airwing of good and fast irplanes. AR made them even quicker and more resilient, as you would take less AAA damage. So it maybe didn't work for you, but it sure did for me.

What is accel bail?

speeding to max speed, then pressing F and/or pressing the boost button and then hitting f.

 

can't remember which one. i think it works since i saved my entire bomber squad from doing that once in my lexi. but i havent done it enough nor paid attention to it enough to verify.

[1MajorKoenig]

6 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Wait, what? Your want to nerf AA cruisers? Fair fight? Before 0.8.5 it was unfair. Now seems more balanced imho. 

 

No - you suggested to give two - let’s say very stronk - DDs a fair chance in a CV fight by reducing the detectably to “on-your-lap” Level. 

 

In in return I told you that if you go that route you also need to make unfavourable situations for the CV “fair” - hence reducing AA to a quite extreme extend and increase detectability for AA ships by a huge factor. 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

32 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

They would also die faster, making the speed effect rather short.

 

Not necessarily with pre 0.8.5 AA as the damage is spread out which was your point, no? Sure they would eventually die faster but survivability in itself only benefits you for a certain time (namely the time it takes you to carry out attacks). Any excess survivability is a bonus, it's not strictly needed.

 

32 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

So it maybe didn't work for you, but it sure did for me.

 

And tell me, how many planes survived vs how many planes survived without AR? How many invis flak clouds did you hit because you sped up? Have you ever considered that AR is precisely what prevented you from reengaging by enlarging your turn radius?

Because Saipan bombers are actually quite nimble from what I've seen and in tests have proven themselves to be practically toe to toe with Enterprise TBs in rate of turn.

And while I haven't played Saipan, I have played Midway which uses the exact same planes. Prior to 0.8.5 making at least two attacks even with understrength squadrons (which Saipan squads basically are) was rarely an issue.

 

The risks far outweigh its sole benefit especially when a basic exploit makes the latter completely obsolete.

 

32 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

What is accel bail?

 

An exploit that uses the same principles as the slingshot to reach immunity altitude faster when bailing. During the attack animation just use boost to speed up then press F.

If executed correctly this will allow your planes to reach immunity altitude much quicker as they "slingshot" themselves to it (this is especially noticeable with TBs as they get artificially accelerated much harder than any other plane type). They also retain the last second or so of immunity after an attack while doing so. In addition once planes hit immunity altitude they retain their current speed when returning to the CV, meaning that an accel bailed squad will return and be ready again faster than a normal bailed squad.

 

I've made this exploit public for quite some time, so I'm genuinely surprised to see someone not knowing what it is.

[Panocek]

29 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

What is accel bail?

Just press F immediately after dropping and look at plane icons... provided they don't bug out and get stuck Which is in game for what, 8 months at this point?

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Just press F immediately after dropping and look at plane icons... provided they don't bug out and get stuck Which is in game for what, 8 months at this point?

 

I found that a stuck icon is basically a message that an accel bail has succeeded.

Which is either extremely funny or extremely sad depending on how you think about it. 

[1MajorKoenig]

6 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Just press F immediately after dropping and look at plane icons... provided they don't bug out and get stuck Which is in game for what, 8 months at this point?

So nothing about the boost stated earlier here?

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I found that a stuck icon is basically a message that an accel bail has succeeded.

Which is either extremely funny or extremely sad depending on how you think about it. 

I had few cases of stuck icon on normally returning planes from attack wing while acc bailed had icon working normally and they zoomed back to carrier in no time

 

Just now, 1MajorKoenig said:

So nothing about the boost stated earlier here?

Boost only speeds up process. Bigger question, why you don't boost within AA to start with

[KillStealBoss]

13 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

No - you suggested to give two - let’s say very stronk - DDs a fair chance in a CV fight by reducing the detectably to “on-your-lap” Level. 

 

In in return I told you that if you go that route you also need to make unfavourable situations for the CV “fair” - hence reducing AA to a quite extreme extend and increase detectability for AA ships by a huge factor. 

 

 

Asashio , Shinonome and kamikaze. Those DDs have literally no AA and need air detection buff. They're strong but as I said you can counter them by putting a fighters above them because they lack AA they can't shoot them down. What's the problem? You can still fight them. Three only issue is when you have no fighters, then after you spot the DD you turn back , launch the attack and predict where he can be. That's why longer rocket plane attack module comes in handy. 

[CptBarney]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I found that a stuck icon is basically a message that an accel bail has succeeded.

Which is either extremely funny or extremely sad depending on how you think about it. 

I always wondered why plane icons just stay in one position for ages then suddenly pop-up near your CV or distance later.

 

I've noticed this as well with people just flying planes sometimes, bugworld cant handle planes?

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

3 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

I always wondered why plane icons just stay in one position for ages then suddenly pop-up near your CV or distance later.

 

I've noticed this as well with people just flying planes sometimes, bugworld cant handle planes?

WG has always been bad at planes. Did our ever check out world of warplanes? There's good reason it's not a popular game.

[CptBarney]

3 minutes ago, Europizza said:

WG has always been bad at planes. Did our ever check out world of warplanes? There's good reason it's not a popular game.

Im suprised world of warplanes still exists.

 

Also why did total war arena fail? Too simplistic? boring? premium stuff? not fixing core issues?

[Hopeless_Guppy]

Fear not @El2aZur, I already appreciate BB's and eve some cruisers an awful lot more, I especially appreciate those players the take the time to teach me things too