CV Rework Discussion

[Sunleader]

9 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

Well, I have one last question. 

 

Why do you constantly compare ship vs ship, when there can be only one CV per match, and we can have up to 5 BBs. Influence wise, you need to compare class by class to get a clear effect on the game. If you nerf the V so it falls behind a BB in all aspects but spotting (and they are almost there), what is the point of flying around? Just sit in a BB (Soviet one) and join the rest of the merry men.

 

Balance is when 1 Player is Worth 1 Player.

So every Class has to be Balanced so that 1 Player of Class A is Equal (or close to Equal) to 1 Player of Class B.

 

Currently however. 1 CV Player in the Match Equal 5-6 other Classes Players in terms of Influence on the Match Outcome.

And he also Equals 2-3 other Classes Players in terms of Combat Power.

 

I am Highlighting that.

As simple as that.

 

 

8 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

Why shouldn't he be perma spotted if the CV decides to do so? What is wrong there? A DD can perma spot a BB , and BB cant do anything about it? CV perma spotting a DD is not doing anything else. That DD is mitigating a lot of damage that would got BBs.

 

So much for your one last question.

 

A BB has Strong Armor and alot of HP.  It is Balanced to be the Bulk of the Army Class. Being Easily Spotted is part of this Balancing.

After all. If a BB had the same Concealment as a DD. Then its High HP and Armor as well as its High Range for Strong Attacks would be Unfair.

A DD has Weak Armor and very little HP. And his Strong Attack Abilities have much Shorter Range than that of the BBs. Thats why he gets the Concealment.

And here comes the Problem.

Currently the CV is messing up this Balance by completely Denying the DD this Advantage which is supposed to Balance out the Stronger Combat Power of the Larger Ships.

Causing the DD to Massively Lose Influence whenever a CV is Present.

 

2 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

This shows you don't even play that much DD or you just dont know how to play them in my personal opinion.

I never had issues "finishing of a heavy dmged target" even if it is a BB. 

Also if you say the work only well in close Ranges then sorry you never played probably then DD's correctly.

I would say DD's are a hard class to play but if you can play them good then you can carry the game better then the CV can.

(here comes the counter agument. Come on let it roll)

As previously stated you did blow that up like no one else :D and you saying that you talking in a opinion manner.

NO you don't need to risk your DD if you want to capture and if you do it right you even after 3 attempts can still be alive.

Yes there is a risk involve but so is it alway's with every class. Don't come with "CV dont have ANY RISKS"  because the are meant to have only certain risks.

This one just shows ether you love your DD friends or you got pretty hard harassed by enemie CV's when the rework came out.

I play DD's regulary and not only AA heavy DDS but also gun dds etc... and i had only on rare occasion a frustatring filling because the nerved the rockets already hard enough. And the can't strike me in on go except as a DD player you leave your flipping AA on then sorry you are just made of stupid.

OOKay and then you fly around and lose magicly all your planes because and unspotted mino was somewhere you never know where and that continues until a dd spots for you O.o good luck.

I love you comment its brilliant. 100% truth people just [edited] because there favorite class is Apparently weaker then CV so pls nerv ;)

I need to correct you on that because currently haru and khaba are still full damage before the changed that aspect of the game. So yes you can shout gun a Haru or khaba still in 1 shout with a alsace or what not with 1 salvo of course you need to be lucky.

 

 

To round it up i just will say something that i hear from some else. And it hits the nail in the coffin. 

CV's are meant to counter everyone and everyone is meant to counter CV. 

CV's can get punished very hard from BB's because the have such a long firing range and the just need to be spotted and the are already focus fired by everyone.

BB's on the other hand can get pretty hard farmed by the CV if the sail around by themselves.

CV's can punish a CA with AP bombs or Rocket planes if the have AA left etc...

CA's on the other hand has most of the time very good AA to counter and stop CV from attacking.

CV's can spot DD's pretty ez and deal some dmg to them in return if the dd player is predictable.

DD's on the other hand are Sneaky little buggers who can sneak around and can even avoid CV planes if done correctly. I need to remind you that DD's most of them have Air detection of around 2-3 km. What is not enough to keep him spotted and make an attack run immediately.

 

I total i just think people need to adapt and maybe stop sailing around the map completely by themselves and then whine in the forum that the got focused out.

 

1.

Claim without any Explanation or Reasoning.

I dont know why you would Expect a Counter Argument when you dont make an Argument yourself.

If you just Say "Bah your Wrong" then my Answer is pretty Simple. "Nope I am not. You are Wrong"

End of Story.

2.

Capturing a Point as DD is Broadcasting your Rough Position to the Enemy. When you got around 20k HP and 19mm Armor. Then this is in Fact a quite Big Risk.

And Yes. CVs are Meant to only have Certain Risks. Thats why CVs need to be Balanced around other Factors.

You cant Expect a Class that can Strike from 40km away without any Danger to himself to have the same Strike Damage as a Class that has to come within 10km of you and has so few HP that many BBs can Onehit it.

3.

Sorry. I am BB Player. And I hate DDs like the Pest. I think that DDs are Incredible Stupid Implemented. And that in General the whole Spotting System is Rubbish. Because it makes no Sense that a Ship would come up to 6km to me and is not Spotted.

But my Personal Feelings on this are Irrelevant. Thats how the Balancing Works.

And I provided an Potential Solution to the Request made.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

 

 

 

As for the Spotting Removal.

Thats why WG Considered Removing Spotting of any Ships that have AA Deactivated.

A Ship Firing of its AA Guns would of course be Spotted.

 

Albeit I am not really in Favor of this. I already consider the Spotting Mechanics Ridiculous.

I dont want them to get even more Ridiculous.

And there is other Ways of Balancing this.

 

 

1 hour ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

No amount of further crying justifies further CV nerfs.

It's clear that most individuals that call for further nerf ideas want them removed.

 

I one day sat down in my Gearing (which is a DD i'm terrible in) and played 18 matches and came out of that with a 80%~ solo winrate. Might have been luck, might have been me improving.

Of those 18 matches half of them were CV games.

 

Then i played my Midway and i have to work like a madman to achieve any significant impact on the match outcome. To be honest? Playing DD and winning became so much easier all of a sudden.

 

WG is continueing to nerf CV in the next two patches with increasing AA efficiency. There is absolutely no need to fix spotting after this because CV pop will drop below RTS levels after those AA increases.

The CV pop is already declining hard.

 

There is absolutely nothing in regards to nerfs that needs to be done.

It's the players that are op in CVs not the class in itself in her current state and noone should give a damn about one El2aZeR dominating solo in his Enterprise.

You should give a damn about players like @NoobySkooby

Who cant commit the same amount of time without impressive talent who tried having some fun with a new class and who got kicked in the balls by constant nerfs.

I mentored him during 8.3 times back then it was already difficult for him. He is a very friendly person and as casual as one can get.

If you think a CV can ever be OP in his hands you are crazy. Unicum CV players deserve to "ruin" your exp as does the unicum BB player deserve to devstrike you every tenth game.

 

There is absolutely no reason to further kill the CV class. But remember that what i said months ago still holds truth which is the likes of El2aZeR and a few less talented unicums will always make CV work and overperform.

 

So git gud instead of crying in the forum.

 

 

 

On this I Disagree.

CVs in Average are Still Perfoming a Much Larger Influence than other Ships.

They are certainly not Ridiculously Overpowered anymore.

 

But they are still the Biggest Factor for a Matchs Outcome.

And they are Still Capable of Completely Removing the Influence of DDs if they Aim to do so.

 

Their Average Damage is still very High and their Spotting Damage is still of the Charts.

They need to lose one of these Factors so they are Equal to other Classes again.

 

The Preferable Loss would be the Spotting of course.

As DDs are the Class most Hit by CVs and the Spotting is the thing mainly taken away from DDs and Heavily Inhibiting DDs Performance.

 

(Pls note. Taken away in the Sense of the Top Spot being taken away. Not in the Sense of CVs not doing any Spotting at all)

[Yosha_AtaIante]

@El2aZeR

 

I know your stance and you really don't need to repeat it.

But i also know that you dislike what the CV rework brought and that you don't care for people who don't perform to a certain standard.

You care about ruining peoples day as you stated many times. At the same time you are mostly a blessing for most on your own team so that one can't really work out i guess but that's fine after all you are still playing is what's important.

 

However, noone talks about buffing CV as to the average player being able to perform like i do for example. I'm by no means close to your level of play and maybe the average Unicum CV player.

I want the CV class to be played to a average standard (80k+ by a healthy number of players) and certainly not what you and me deem average

(My average performance is any game above 130k damage).

 

I also lost a fun place when RTS got deleted. But what i don't regret losing is the ability of a 90% winrate Midway player calling me absolute trash in RTS because i didn't know about sidestrafing that NOONE teached me or told me about.

 

The people who were utter gods who knew things and told noone to keep their superiority and treated players like me who really tried to get good like absolute trash.

I don't miss these players. And you keeping secrets in the current version shows that maybe you want to keep that exclusivity that you once had in another shape.

 

This is not an attack on your person

 

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

Just now, 1MajorKoenig said:

Again there is no point in balancing for some individuals. The critical point is that the CV class (or any class for that matter) needs to maintain a critical mass of players to be balanceable (does that word even exist...? Anyhow). If you fall below this critical mass you will see exactly the same as what happened to the RTS carriers. Therefore WG should be VERY aware of CV player retention and don’t follow each and every request for nerfing - which quite frankly are a lot of times either selfish (“don’t touch my tralala”) or pretty uninformed.

Well i tried to be sarcastice if you did not see what i mean. :D 

I know exactly what you mean and for that reason we have the ST programm with live server testing etc... to try to balance around it. 

OF course we can not counter in the entire player base of WoWs but we try our best to make things kinda balanced in there own right but since people where so loud and shouting all over the place in regards of NERVING CV because hey that was also the case in WoT with Artillery. We got nerves after nerves.

Yes i'm still pretty good in my CV but how much work i need to put in to get a great game in comparison to all the other classes is a bit destroyed if i will be honest. It just looked to me that the did those changes because of all the other class players to "balance" the game better for them.

 

Anyway does not matter because now our CV player base is pretty much RTS level or even way below that because people give up on those ships because it slowly makes no sense and is no fun.

So congratz to the RTS purest or the people who whine all the time that the can't do anything against CV then. You have archieved your goal of pretty much killing a Class in the game.

 

Maybe i should start to "take away other peoples toy" aswell.

[CptBarney]

You guys should write stories and mangas with the amount of work put into this thread.

 

Although it's a shame that most people (including myself) do not have this level of dedication for most things.

 

Spoiler

 

 

best waifu

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 3 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

 

Balance is when 1 Player is Worth 1 Player.

So every Class has to be Balanced so that 1 Player of Class A is Equal (or close to Equal) to 1 Player of Class B.

 

Currently however. 1 CV Player in the Match Equal 5-6 other Classes Players in terms of Influence on the Match Outcome.

And he also Equals 2-3 other Classes Players in terms of Combat Power.

 

I am Highlighting that.

As simple as that.

 

 

 

So much for your one last question.

 

A BB has Strong Armor and alot of HP.  It is Balanced to be the Bulk of the Army Class. Being Easily Spotted is part of this Balancing.

After all. If a BB had the same Concealment as a DD. Then its High HP and Armor as well as its High Range for Strong Attacks would be Unfair.

A DD has Weak Armor and very little HP. And his Strong Attack Abilities have much Shorter Range than that of the BBs. Thats why he gets the Concealment.

And here comes the Problem.

Currently the CV is messing up this Balance by completely Denying the DD this Advantage which is supposed to Balance out the Stronger Combat Power of the Larger Ships.

Causing the DD to Massively Lose Influence whenever a CV is Present.

 

 

1.

Claim without any Explanation or Reasoning.

I dont know why you would Expect a Counter Argument when you dont make an Argument yourself.

If you just Say "Bah your Wrong" then my Answer is pretty Simple. "Nope I am not. You are Wrong"

End of Story.

2.

Capturing a Point as DD is Broadcasting your Rough Position to the Enemy. When you got around 20k HP and 19mm Armor. Then this is in Fact a quite Big Risk.

And Yes. CVs are Meant to only have Certain Risks. Thats why CVs need to be Balanced around other Factors.

You cant Expect a Class that can Strike from 40km away without any Danger to himself to have the same Strike Damage as a Class that has to come within 10km of you and has so few HP that many BBs can Onehit it.

3.

Sorry. I am BB Player. And I hate DDs like the Pest. I think that DDs are Incredible Stupid Implemented. And that in General the whole Spotting System is Rubbish. Because it makes no Sense that a Ship would come up to 6km to me and is not Spotted.

But my Personal Feelings on this are Irrelevant. Thats how the Balancing Works.

And I provided an Potential Solution to the Request made.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

 

 

 

As for the Spotting Removal.

Thats why WG Considered Removing Spotting of any Ships that have AA Deactivated.

A Ship Firing of its AA Guns would of course be Spotted.

 

Albeit I am not really in Favor of this. I already consider the Spotting Mechanics Ridiculous.

I dont want them to get even more Ridiculous.

And there is other Ways of Balancing this.

 

 

 

On this I Disagree.

CVs in Average are Still Perfoming a Much Larger Influence than other Ships.

They are certainly not Ridiculously Overpowered anymore.

 

But they are still the Biggest Factor for a Matchs Outcome.

And they are Still Capable of Completely Removing the Influence of DDs if they Aim to do so.

 

Their Average Damage is still very High and their Spotting Damage is still of the Charts.

They need to lose one of these Factors so they are Equal to other Classes again.

 

The Preferable Loss would be the Spotting of course.

As DDs are the Class most Hit by CVs and the Spotting is the thing mainly taken away from DDs and Heavily Inhibiting DDs Performance.

K

 

Remove the spotting.

But revert ALL AA changes.

[1MajorKoenig]

4 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

Well i tried to be sarcastice if you did not see what i mean. :D 

I know exactly what you mean and for that reason we have the ST programm with live server testing etc... to try to balance around it. 

OF course we can not counter in the entire player base of WoWs but we try our best to make things kinda balanced in there own right but since people where so loud and shouting all over the place in regards of NERVING CV because hey that was also the case in WoT with Artillery. We got nerves after nerves.

Yes i'm still pretty good in my CV but how much work i need to put in to get a great game in comparison to all the other classes is a bit destroyed if i will be honest. It just looked to me that the did those changes because of all the other class players to "balance" the game better for them.

 

Anyway does not matter because now our CV player base is pretty much RTS level or even way below that because people give up on those ships because it slowly makes no sense and is no fun.

So congratz to the RTS purest or the people who whine all the time that the can't do anything against CV then. You have archieved your goal of pretty much killing a Class in the game.

 

Maybe i should start to "take away other peoples toy" aswell.

 

I know that you understand :-)

 

Just wanted to stress this important aspect.

 

With regards to player numbers: the door isn’t closed yet. If WG wakes up from their little ill-fated nerf-CVs-and-listen-to-haters-drug-Tour and finally understands that a critical mass of players need to be retained for the overall interclass balance this can still work out.

 

And because I am on full painkillers some cheering words:

 

“All will be good in the end - and if not all is good, it’s not the end”

[Sunleader]

9 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

K

 

Remove the spotting.

But revert ALL AA changes.

 

Take away. THE TOP SPOT of CVs in Spotting.

Not Remove Spotting from CVs entirely.

 

I Actually Edited that Note into my other Post.

But it seems you were faster and already quoted me before I had the chance to change it.

[El2aZeR]

19 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Which is true for any class and shows more with higher class influence.

 

True, however most other classes have their influence elsewhere rather than direct damage dealing. Cruisers have utility, DDs get cap contesting and spotting. BBs are the sole other class whose focus is mostly damage dealing and, tbh, they're actually already overpowered in a sense and do deserve to get nerfed to an extend. Which ofc will never happen because it's supposed to be the proof class.

A CV meanwhile only deals damage to other classes and nothing else. And it's understandable why, if you had to be relegated to spotting while playing the "third-person action" concept it'd be incredibly boring. However that also means if it is too easy to deal damage they become overpowered. And if they deal too little damage or damage is too difficult to deal, they become unfun.

Personally I don't see any way out of this. It's a fundamental design flaw.

 

19 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

What certainly isn’t overly helpful is “I had to give up my toy now I do everything to spoil someone else’s”.

 

Well, here's what I learned when it comes to the CV rework:

 

And trust me, I'm having a blast. 

On a more serious note, I'd be perfectly fine with giving up on the RTS iteration if the rework had actually managed to improved something beyond popularity. However it hasn't, most if not all of the previous issues are still there while it has added its own on top. As such the RTS iteration is objectively the superior system despite being in need of some major overhaul as well.

 

16 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

Just be honest with yourself and admit that you hate the current rework. 

 

Uh, yeah. I've never exactly made a secret out of that, no? I'm sure everyone here knows.

 

16 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

i dont care what kinda DD players you where facing but every CV player i faced in my DD atleast took him over 5 min's to kill me because i'm not made of stupid sorry.

 

Quite a few far better than you. In their fully AA spec AA DD. In AA divs.

They either die fast and horribly or they spend their time worthlessly hugging their friends.

Only to see them die.

 

17 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

But hey we see what you want. You want to make CV soo hard to play that ether the revert back to your sooo FAVORITE RTS formate. OR you just want to feel like a special unicorn player that is a CV main and no one else is suppose to play that class with success accept you.

 

See above. If the rework was actually better than the RTS iteration I'd be more than happy to embrace it.

As it stands it's way worse.

 

18 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

Yes i do play CV and if you did not see it i'm also a ST so what?

 

Yes, I have noticed, but does ST status give you extensive reworked CV experience? That'd be news to me.

I'm sorry, but most of your statements about how CVs and their supposed limitations are horribly uninformed. You come across as extremely inexperienced and your ST status only makes it worse as it casts serious doubts on the whole program's effectiveness.

Although to be fair it was already in question to begin with ever since it was revealed how WG behaves with feedback.

 

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

And you keeping secrets in the current version shows that maybe you want to keep that exclusivity that you once had in another shape.

 

Funny thing about that, I'm actually the one who made counter strafing public shortly after strafing out was introduced. And it still took me several months to see someone use it against me. Inherent issue is ofc that only a fraction of the playerbase uses the forums and even fewer will find their way to the CV section. It should be WG's job to teach how to play the game, not ours.

 

As for now, I just no longer care. Seeing people burn down their own ship they built upon a lake of napalm is extremely amusing and I'm happy to fan the flames.

Also if you haven't noticed I tend to let my own teammates die rather than give them air cover/spotting/support even when my position enables me to if it suits me. The great thing about post rework CVs is that few will notice that you're also griefing your own team in additon to the enemy, so the fun factor of letting someone know that you're leaving them to die when they're screaming for e.g. air cover is much higher.

[80yearoldpotato]

Guys and gurls

i think we can only aspire to get to @El2aZeR levels of skill and git gud. I am perfectly aware that learning the ropes of advice he has said is going to make most of us better CV players.

We can also agree on the matter of fact that this CV rework has so many flaws towards the early reasoning of WG for changing CVs. Now ive was never a good RTS CV player because the response and ui problems the RTS gameplay had completly turned me off. Id rather go back to starcraft or Warcraft or heck even CoH for that matter. 

 

But on a different note im torn between the nerfing of cvs because i know they are OP. Not OP because El2azer playes them to perfection but the whole class is so black and white it can only be either OP or useless. Id rather just have them OP and meet El2azer in 1 out of 50 games instead of having a useless class on my team. 

 

@sunleader i must admit i was wrong about you ealier, i can clearly see you have progressed and became more than average as you state in terms of cv skills. good for you and by following your posts i can see you try to enjoy this more. playing it for what it is.

 

So lets ditch the feelings on trying to remove this CV rework because its never going to happen.  What we should focus on is trying to give WG constructive critique of their new mechanics introduced

 

On another note 

What can be done about these topics

- torpedo bomber heal

- Adrenaline rush speed boost totally not worth using.

 

They are only reactive cooldowns for making a mistake by not dodging a flak burst. 

And for anyone asking how you can dodge flak? What el2azer was trying to say is that you dont dodge them you trick the burst pre-emptivily by tricking the direction of flak burst. by simpley timing you movement turns towards the target. Ofc this is easier on planes with better turn time like the Big-E

 

 

Stuntman also made a good video explaining the reduction of continous dmg on only the last attack of your squadron.

 

in regards to this, i think these mecahnics highlights a very important factor. WG has implemented mechanics that allow us to save planes or manage our planeloss, but they are rarely used. 

like probably only 10% slingshot drops and the mechanic above isnt used because various reasons.

 

 

 

And i must admit ive played more surface ships lately because i  was shredding pepegas in 0.8.0 - 0.8.4 with little to none effort. 

with the recent AA changes the skillgap is being raised and i enjoy that for myself but we all know that these AA changes are based on perception of the surface ships players in order to make them feel that the AA is working. 

 

[El2aZeR]

7 minutes ago, UltraViking said:

What can be done about these topics

- torpedo bomber heal

- Adrenaline rush speed boost totally not worth using

 

TB heal kinda still works even against DPS. It basically makes you immune to damage for a short time which imo offers pretty good utility unless the DPS outpaces the heal. Maybe they should up the "tickrate" of it just like they're doing with AA but that's about all it needs tbh.

As for AR, well, tbh it was never that useful of a skill to begin with. I wouldn't exactly mind if they just straight up remove its effect on aircraft. However if it is to be retained.... Maybe make it regen planes faster when you're low on reserves instead of adjusting squadron speed? I honestly don't see the speed implementation work out anymore after 0.8.5, so imo we need to take the skill in another direction entirely.

[80yearoldpotato]

Totally agree with you El2aZer. actually making plane restoration speed up below certain tresholds is usefull and would make it easier for average joe to not be deplaned too early. 

Regarding the tick rate of the heal i find it slow and not sufficient on TX. 

 

Because the survivability expert hp adjustment was merely a hoax just to give planes something after the AA change. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

3 hours ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

I total i just think people need to adapt period.

Fixed that for you.

 

As for the rest of your arguments, I sincerely hope WG doesn't value for your opinion on what you supertest but only looks at the results you generate in their spreadsheets. You've written so much nonsense these last few posts that I fear for us if you're opinion is actually taken serious by WG.

 

WG's balancing act swings the pendulem back and forth, too much in some of the patches, we all seem to agree on that. Also, WG decided the live server is now fair game as a testbed for development. So I'm super confused why you as a Supertester get so worked up over overperforming balance changes.

[22cm]

8 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

when there can be only one CV per match, and we can have up to 5 BBs

No offense, but from here you should understand how balanced carriers are. 

One of the claims of the success of the CV rework was that the carrier cap will be removed after rework. It could not be done. 

[CptBarney]

@El2aZeR Would you still do the same if said players were above 55% winrate and perform really well?

 

You can't be that bad, you've helped me and others on the forum, although i understand where you come from, im finding it difficult not to start ranting in chat when people start throwing away easy wins.

 

Can't remember if you have or not, but how would design cv's in general? also would you split them into two groups (damage/support) or all in one?

[El2aZeR]

16 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Would still do the same if said players were above 55% winrate and perform really well?

 

I'd have no reason to hate the playerbase then, no?

 

16 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Can't remember if you have or not, but how would design cv's in general? also would you split them into two groups (damage/support) or all in one?

 

Basically

- retain the RTS system, it's the only playstyle that makes sense if you want multi squadron gameplay

- make a ton of changes to increase accessibility, adjust spotting/damage and remove the need to pick specialized AA builds

 

I would retain all in one. Reason is simple, making both balanced enough that one isn't more powerful over the other would be stupidly difficult, if not straight up impossible. As such the team with one type of CV would most likely have a severe advantage over the opposing one. It's already difficult as it is with the current "damage dealing" CV lines, e.g. getting a skilled player in an Enterprise rather than a skilled player in an Implacable can easily win you the match by default.

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

8 minutes ago, Europizza said:

As for the rest of your arguments, I sincerely hope WG doesn't value for your opinion on what you supertest but only looks at the results you generate in their spreadsheets. You've written so much nonsense these last few posts that I fear for us if you're opinion is actually taken serious by WG.

 

WG's balancing act swings the pendulem back and forth, too much in some of the patches, we all seem to agree on that. Also, WG decided the live server is now fair game as a testbed for development. So I'm super confused why you as a Supertester get so worked up over overperforming balance changes.

Alright so i'm not allowed to have an Personal opinion (i don't have idea how you come in conclusion that my opinion is apparently related to WG). Good to know that apperently my arguments where just taking by as a joke since apperently we dont look at stats but then other people talk about stats of DD's etc... Quite ironic to be honest with you.

 

Sorry if you miss understood me but i'm not talking here as a Supertester but more as an individual who loves this game and playes every class.

I just believe that the frequence of nerving CV currently is just totaly blonkers to be honest. I just believe the should slow down and not check all the time about people whining about things and instead think about a proper fix of the situation.

Since everyone here can tell me what the want but buffing AA to Nerv CV did not work in RTS CV.

IT will bloody not work now with action CV. It will be ether total frustration for surface ship or just total frustration for CV players.

IT will make no sense so i just don't understand why people like you, El2aZeR and Sunleader want to push wargaming to implement more and more CV nerves.

 

I already stated that there is also other ships in the game right now that are complettly unbalanced but hey lets leave them alone and don't pay attention to those ships for the last 1-2 years but focus only on munching down on CV the hole time.

IT will not fix the problem at hand and will create again a power vacuum that we had with RTS CV. IF you dont remember what happend than let me explain

RTS CV where OP.

The nerved the planes.

Still OP

Buffed the AA to massive amounts

Complettly useless now.

Then buff again hp of Planes

now OP again

etc....

and it continued until the end that there was never a right balanced.

now we are heading towerds the AA is totaly broken route that will make CV complettly unplayable except you enjoy flying around and watch that match unfold from the air.

 

but hey lets bash me because i try to say that we should slow down this process and what do i get from you guys.

BLABLALBA shut up you are wrong and deal with it.

[CptBarney]

10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I'd have no reason to hate the playerbase then, no?

Dunno depends if they are giant arseholes or not. Hmm i wonder if you hate the in-game playerbase more than the forum side of things?

 

10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Basically

- retain the RTS system, it's the only playstyle that makes sense if you want multi squadron gameplay

- make a ton of changes to increase accessibility, adjust spotting/damage and remove the need to pick specialized AA builds

 

I would retain all in one. Reason is simple, making both balanced enough that one isn't more powerful over the other would be stupidly difficult, if not straight up impossible. As such the team with one type of CV would most likely have a severe advantage over the opposing one. It's already difficult as it is with the current "damage dealing" CV lines, e.g. getting a skilled player in an Enterprise rather than a skilled player in an Implacable can easily win you the match by default.

 

Fair enough, makes me wonder if you should post this in the ru forums (the only forums that actually bloody listen to half the time).

 

If yorkie gets added into the game apperantly she will be a 'support' class. Which makes me wonder what the bloody company has in mind. Repair Drops? Smoke? Dropable hydro boyes? Putting out Fires?

 

 

Aircraft carriers in warthunder would be hilarious doe.

[DFens_666]

4 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Which is - quite frankly - not a very smart idea. IF spotting is an issue - which I would strongly challenge - one could think about some delaying mechanism as proposed multiple times now 

 

 

At first I didnt think so either, because im against different mechanics for different classes, but after some thinking, i realized it actually would be pretty good.

Spotting delay could also work, depending on the time.

But everyone who thinks, spotting is not important, doesnt understand this game very well.

[Panocek]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

You come across as extremely inexperienced and your ST status only makes it worse as it casts serious doubts on the whole program's effectiveness.

IIRC WG recruits players to ST from whole spectrum, so potatoes are tbh expected...

 

48 minutes ago, UltraViking said:

Regarding the tick rate of the heal i find it slow and not sufficient on TX. 

That and glorious UI "oh, plane red, lets pop heal", only to plane register as shot down the moment heal kicks in, which result in heal mostly wasted

 

25 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

IT will not fix the problem at hand and will create again a power vacuum that we had with RTS CV. IF you dont remember what happend than let me explain

RTS CV where OP.

The nerved the planes.

Still OP

Buffed the AA to massive amounts

Complettly useless now.

Then buff again hp of Planes

now OP again

etc....

With current CV REEEwork you can't find balance either. If AA stops planes on first approach, carriers are useless. If AA doesn't - whine will follow. If AA permits only one attack run, then CVs are borderline useless, having to throw significant amount of planes to deal any meaningful amount of damage while surface plebs whine anyway.

[1MajorKoenig]

31 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

Alright so i'm not allowed to have an Personal opinion (i don't have idea how you come in conclusion that my opinion is apparently related to WG). Good to know that apperently my arguments where just taking by as a joke since apperently we dont look at stats but then other people talk about stats of DD's etc... Quite ironic to be honest with you.

 

Sorry if you miss understood me but i'm not talking here as a Supertester but more as an individual who loves this game and playes every class.

I just believe that the frequence of nerving CV currently is just totaly blonkers to be honest. I just believe the should slow down and not check all the time about people whining about things and instead think about a proper fix of the situation.

Since everyone here can tell me what the want but buffing AA to Nerv CV did not work in RTS CV.

IT will bloody not work now with action CV. It will be ether total frustration for surface ship or just total frustration for CV players.

IT will make no sense so i just don't understand why people like you, El2aZeR and Sunleader want to push wargaming to implement more and more CV nerves.

 

I already stated that there is also other ships in the game right now that are complettly unbalanced but hey lets leave them alone and don't pay attention to those ships for the last 1-2 years but focus only on munching down on CV the hole time.

IT will not fix the problem at hand and will create again a power vacuum that we had with RTS CV. IF you dont remember what happend than let me explain

RTS CV where OP.

The nerved the planes.

Still OP

Buffed the AA to massive amounts

Complettly useless now.

Then buff again hp of Planes

now OP again

etc....

and it continued until the end that there was never a right balanced.

now we are heading towerds the AA is totaly broken route that will make CV complettly unplayable except you enjoy flying around and watch that match unfold from the air.

 

but hey lets bash me because i try to say that we should slow down this process and what do i get from you guys.

BLABLALBA shut up you are wrong and deal with it.

 

Why deal with that Pizza..? Haven’t seen a single constructive slice of information from him. Igno list is your friend 

[El2aZeR]

28 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

IT will make no sense so i just don't understand why people like you, El2aZeR and Sunleader want to push wargaming to implement more and more CV nerves.

 

It's very simple, because they're still overperforming at the highest level. If the goal of the rework is to "bring CVs in line with other classes" as WG has stated multiple times then the rework is currently a failure. Just like it fails in everything else.

 

And ofc the most amusing thing about it is that it is an impossibility in the first place. The game is balanced asymmetrically, as such some classes will always be more powerful than others. I believe WG knows this as they have presented CVs still being the most influential class in the game as a success. However even if the goal is to make CVs weaker than before, well, that too was a failure up until 0.8.5. 0.8.5 is the first patch to have even remotely succeeded in reaching that goal.

All it took to achieve that was completely obliterate playability for the average playerbase.

 

And here the rework shows that it can never succeed because its popularity is directly tied with how much and how easily damage can be dealt. Make them too accessible and they become op for anyone not braindead. Make them more balanced and they become unpopular.

As such the only reasonable thing to do is to scrap the rework and start from scratch. WG is kinda doing that right now with all the new AA mechanics changes (as these clearly contradict with fundamental mechanics of the rework), their mistake however is to do it all on the live server.

So much for "learning from the rushed rework implementation" lol.

[CptBarney]

8 minutes ago, Panocek said:

IIRC WG recruits players to ST from whole spectrum, so potatoes are tbh expected...

 

That and glorious UI "oh, plane red, lets pop heal", only to plane register as shot down the moment heal kicks in, which result in heal mostly wasted

 

With current CV REEEwork you can't find balance either. If AA stops planes on first approach, carriers are useless. If AA doesn't - whine will follow. If AA permits only one attack run, then CVs are borderline useless, having to throw significant amount of planes to deal any meaningful amount of damage while surface plebs whine anyway.

Explains why i saw multiple siegfried 'supertesters' suicide in a ship with fat citadels.

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, Panocek said:

IIRC WG recruits players to ST from whole spectrum, so potatoes are tbh expected...

 

I'm well aware as I had the (mis)fortune to have played with several recently. All of them were terrible, all of them were the primary cause for their teams' loss.

One of the reasons why the effectiveness of the ST program itself can be called into question. If the players have no clue what they're doing, what makes them capable of judging anything they play?

But meh, it's not like WG really listens to negative feedback unless it's a complete and utter storm.

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

6 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

And here the rework shows that it can never succeed because its popularity is directly tied with how much and how easily damage can be dealt. Make them too accessible and they become op for anyone not braindead. Make them more balanced and they become unpopular.

So why not instead of buffing the AA to levels that are even harder to do anything against it. 

Why not just nerv the DMG potential.

For Example nerv AP bombs alpha dmg.

etc...

This would make the ship more enjoable because you still feel like you can do something

and people will have less of a problem because the will just feel as annoyed as a dd spamming you with he

[El2aZeR]

6 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

So why not instead of buffing the AA to levels that are even harder to do anything against it. 

Why not just nerv the DMG potential.

For Example nerv AP bombs alpha dmg.

etc...

This would make the ship more enjoable because you still feel like you can do something

and people will have less of a problem because the will just feel as annoyed as a dd spamming you with he

 

Because again fun is also tied with how much damage you deal. Nerf the damage and most players will feel like what they're doing has absolutely no impact, leading to most likely a heavier decline in population than if you just buff the AA as even the most hardcore CV players will leave the class.

 

After all there's no reason to play a class that is purely laid out to deal damage but can't. Case and point: Low tier CVs.